Trump 2024 ???

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    KG1

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    If it were like a regular primary system where Murkouski and Tshibaka run head to head, where only republicans vote in their own primary, and Democrats vote in theirs, maybe Tshibaka beats Murkouski because not many moderates show up to vote in primaries. It's Alaska so whichever republican wins the primary, presumably wins the general. So Tshibaka won a primary she would end up winning the general election and I suppose INGO would rejoice.

    But, in that general election, roughly half of Republicans in Alaska would have to hold their noses to vote for Tshibaka. So they don't get who they want. And the Democrats don't get who they want because they live in a red state. Best they could hope for is the moderate Republican.

    Ranked choice isn't good for radicals because they can't exploit the advantage primaries give them of being more motivated to go vote in primary elections.

    Ranked choice is better for reflecting the overall values of the state of the jurisdiction in which they're voting. If the state is heavily Trumper, then the Trumper candidate will probably win even in ranked choice.
    Let us not forget Murkowski actually lost a primary in 2010 as an incumbent then turned around and ran as a write in and won the general. She is not above trying to do anything to keep her seat. She and her cronies pushed to implement rank choice voting and given her past I would bet dollars to doughnuts they did so because they thought it would give her an advantage and avoid having to run in a heads-up Republican primary.
     
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    jamil

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    Let us not forget Murkowski actually lost a primary in 2010 as an incumbent then turned around and ran as a write in and won the general. She is not above trying to do anything to keep her seat. She and her cronies pushed to implement rank choice voting and given her past I would bet dollars to doughnuts they did so because they thought it would give her an advantage and avoid having to run in a heads-up Republican primary.
    If a state votes for a write in over the primary winner the voters probably want that candidate. That’s the unfair thing about the traditional primary system. It favors the most radical candidates because the radical voters are the most motivated voters. They show up to primary elections.
     

    Ziggidy

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    It's a dismissive cop out to avoid debate by saying that anyone who wishes to challenge anything relating to Trump with a dissenting opinion is due to TDS. I would say the same thing when someone says that anyone who defends Trump is doing so because they are blind "Trumpers.

    They are both dismissive cop outs.

    Blind to what? What has he done to prevent him from running and winning again?


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    Not sure I would call Romney a carpetbagger, at least not one extraordinaire. He moved to Mass for work and lived there for about 8 years before running for office. He also lived in Utah during his college days and had a vacation home there for several years, and lived there for about 4 years before running for office. How long did Oz live live in PA before announcing? IIRC it was less than a year and he was living at his parent-in-laws. But he did live there when he went to college.
    If a carpetbagger is defined as one who is perceived to be exploiting the local populous for their own financial, political and social gain, then Mittens is most certainly a carpetbagger.
     

    printcraft

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    Maybe it's dangerous to let just anyone vote their whims.

    Tim Pool actually came up with a basic income suggestion I might like. Offer people basic income ($1500/month) but if they take it they agree to give up the right to vote. I don't like basic income. But preventing the people who would take it from voting may be a fair tradeoff. They're not disenfranchised if they agree to it.

    That wouldn’t stop a demoncrat from stuffing a ballot in their mail box and accepting it anyway.
    Count all of the votes!
     

    Timjoebillybob

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    If a carpetbagger is defined as one who is perceived to be exploiting the local populous for their own financial, political and social gain, then Mittens is most certainly a carpetbagger.
    You forgot one important part of the definition, a non-resident or new resident esp. without ties to the area. While both went to college in the respective states, Romney owned a vacation home there for several years iirc 10+ and SLC being the location of the main church/headquarters of his religion. Along with living there for 4 years or so in addition to the time he lived there for college before he ran. Iffy on carpetbagger at least IMO.

    Best I can tell Oz moved to PA when he decided to run there. Carpetbagger fair description.
     

    Ingomike

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    You forgot one important part of the definition, a non-resident or new resident esp. without ties to the area. While both went to college in the respective states, Romney owned a vacation home there for several years iirc 10+ and SLC being the location of the main church/headquarters of his religion. Along with living there for 4 years or so in addition to the time he lived there for college before he ran. Iffy on carpetbagger at least IMO.

    Best I can tell Oz moved to PA when he decided to run there. Carpetbagger fair description.
    I call both carpetbaggers. I personally apply the logic of why did the subject move to the state, to run for election or other reasons that seem legit.

    As for Romney, he doesn’t give a damn about republicans, he is a user. If he wanted to help conservatives he would have gone to Michigan and won a dem seat for republicans instead of making a conservative seat RINO…
     

    BugI02

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    First, you're welcome to set expectations for me if you want. I kinda think it's silly to do that. But you're welcome to. Rest assured, I don't set expectations for you. So you can't disappoint me. :):

    But anyway, that is kinda silly don't you think? You conflate individuals setting expectations for other individuals with an election? I kinda get the feeling that if Republicans won bigger than expected and I said they over-performed expectations, you'd probably agree.

    If you think the experts expectations were flawed, of course your opinion is yours to have. But the experts got key races very wrong. Republicans under-performed the typical mid-term opposite-party wave though. Rather than denying it, accept that it's true and figure out how to overcome it.
    The problem I see is that few people want to really diagnose what the problem was. Like shade tree mechanics, they want to just change one part, the only one they are able to believe is the cause of their problems, and have that fix everything

    I think they will be very disappointed by the outcome and will become regulars at O'Reilly's, while suffering with an unreliable ride while deciding what part to change next

    'He's COMPETENT!' isn't going to excite me and my part of the base nearly as much as 'He's coming, and hell's coming with him!' would
     

    BugI02

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    Trump owns the slogan Make America Great Again. I think that's a small goal. I want competent leaders who will put America first above all other concerns, and use the government primarily for protecting the nation's borders and protect/uphold people's rights. We don't have to be the world's police. That idea should have died with the neocons. We don't have to be the most influential nation. Or the richest. AF > MAGA.
    When people on this board are already talking watering down AF in order to appeal to those mythical 'independent voters'? I predict that 'competence' will be something that the Club for Growth will love, the real turd - bipartisanship - will be polished some more, and the best parts of AF will be left on the cutting room floor
     

    BugI02

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    If it were like a regular primary system where Murkouski and Tshibaka run head to head, where only republicans vote in their own primary, and Democrats vote in theirs, maybe Tshibaka beats Murkouski because not many moderates show up to vote in primaries. It's Alaska so whichever republican wins the primary, presumably wins the general. So Tshibaka won a primary she would end up winning the general election and I suppose INGO would rejoice.

    But, in that general election, roughly half of Republicans in Alaska would have to hold their noses to vote for Tshibaka. So they don't get who they want. And the Democrats don't get who they want because they live in a red state. Best they could hope for is the moderate Republican.

    Ranked choice isn't good for radicals because they can't exploit the advantage primaries give them of being more motivated to go vote in primary elections.

    Ranked choice is better for reflecting the overall values of the state of the jurisdiction in which they're voting. If the state is heavily Trumper, then the Trumper candidate will probably win even in ranked choice.
    What I didn't understand is why they implemented ranked choice the way they did. I would think if you had, say, three candidates they would be given 3 points for each time they were ranked first, 2 points for second and one point for third. To decide the election a numerical point total would be calculated for each contestant and the one with the highest point total would win. That seems to be the way to find the most popular result rather than the more byzantine process used in Alaska. I always thought the promise of RCV was to allow people to vote their heart for number one while still indicating a practical choice as next best if their first choice wasn't getting it done and have both choices count
     

    Timjoebillybob

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    I call both carpetbaggers. I personally apply the logic of why did the subject move to the state, to run for election or other reasons that seem legit.

    As for Romney, he doesn’t give a damn about republicans, he is a user. If he wanted to help conservatives he would have gone to Michigan and won a dem seat for republicans instead of making a conservative seat RINO…
    For Romney, he moved to MA for work and lived there for 8 years before running for office. Not sure the exact reason he moved to UT but him and his wife obviously liked it seeing as they owned a vacation home there for at least 10 yrs, he headed the SLC Olympic committee when they were hosting the Olympics, along with living there for 4 years or so before running for office. Among other things. I'd say to make the case for him being a carpetbagger is much more difficult than to make one for Oz. Who lived there for what less than a year before announcing and was living with his in-laws? And had no prior ties that I know of to that state other than attending college.

    I get you don't like him, he's not exactly my favorite politician either. But that doesn't make him a carpetbagger. And Trump must have disagreed with you on him, he did after all endorse him for his senate run. But what does that say about Trump's picking ability? Then again Romney did win. :):
     

    BugI02

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    Having the ability to recognize Trump's faults is a feature, not a bug. No one is perfect. But you guys seem to think he is
    We don't think Trump is perfect in any other way than perfect for the job of dismantling our descent into Marxism (if we also get him some help in congress)

    We realize, better than you apparently, that perfect is the enemy of good enough

    I just keep seeing the guy in the Thomas Dolby video for blinded me with science, only he's saying 'Competence!' now instead of 'Science!'

    Unknown.jpeg
     

    BugI02

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    It's a dismissive cop out to avoid debate by saying that anyone who wishes to challenge anything relating to Trump with a dissenting opinion is due to TDS. I would say the same thing when someone says that anyone who defends Trump is doing so because they are blind "Trumpers.

    They are both dismissive cop outs.
    What about someone who suggests that those who defend Trump don't sufficiently evaluate what that poster thinks is important and thus are too binary and haven't examined the issues with sufficient care and acuity?

    Asking for a friend
     
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    Not sure the exact reason he moved to UT but him and his wife obviously liked it seeing as they owned a vacation home there for at least 10 yrs
    Mittens owns multiple homes in multiple states concurrently. But where is his allegiance?
    Willard Mitt Romney from the great state of ________________? I'm not suggesting he isn't allowed to live where he wants and represent that area if the people so choose. I'm saying he's a political vagabond who chooses political opportunities base on what's expedient for him with no allegiance to his physical location, aka carpetbagger. It's ok if you believe he's honorable.
     

    BugI02

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    Maybe it's dangerous to let just anyone vote their whims.

    Tim Pool actually came up with a basic income suggestion I might like. Offer people basic income ($1500/month) but if they take it they agree to give up the right to vote. I don't like basic income. But preventing the people who would take it from voting may be a fair tradeoff. They're not disenfranchised if they agree to it.
    If the system can't even be relied upon to filter out those who never had the right to vote or never even existed, how would you expect to enforce such an idea where it counts?

    You know and I know they would be the new 'dreamers' and some later change to the system would allow them to keep the BI but allow them to vote and those of us who work would be carrying even more of the deadbeat class than we do now

    It would make more sense to limit voting solely to landholders (again)
     

    BugI02

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    If a state votes for a write in over the primary winner the voters probably want that candidate. That’s the unfair thing about the traditional primary system. It favors the most radical candidates because the radical voters are the most motivated voters. They show up to primary elections.
    Is that a flaw with the system or a flaw in the electorate
     

    KG1

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    What about someone who suggests that those who defend Trump don't sufficiently evaluate what that poster thinks is important and thus are too binary and haven't examined the issues with sufficient care and acuity?

    Asking for a friend
    I'll not get mixed up with the personal perpetual grievances you have with "someone" by the name of jamil.
     
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