Trump 2024 ???

[KG1]

Well, there is a DeSantis thread... I would expect when/if he announces, he would have position statements on quite a number of issues, including Ukraine. And, I would expect if he does run, he would announce during the "traditional" March-June period.

But since this is the Trump thread... what is Trump's position?

His website has a 60-second "I'm not Biden" video, a donations solicitation and a link to his merch site. ZERO policy statements.

His two "major announcements" have been his strangely early entry into the race immediately after a mid-term debacle... and hawking trading cards. IMO, both major mis-steps.

I think you are forgetting his policy announcement he outlined to take on Big Tech and social media over the 1st amendment.

 

[BugI02]

But since this is the Trump thread... what is Trump's position?

Former President Trump on Friday criticized lawmakers for working to pass $40 billion in aid for Ukraine, blaming Democrats for advancing the legislation despite it also having support from a majority of House Republicans.

“The Democrats are sending another $40 billion to Ukraine, yet America’s parents are struggling to even feed their children,” Trump said in a statement issued through his Save America PAC.

"Why are we giving more than USD 40 Billion to Ukraine while Europe, by comparison, is giving very little, and they are greatly more impacted by a Russian invasion, obviously, than the US," Trump said in a statement on Thursday.

13 May 2022

 

[BugI02]

Some here will chose not to vote for a certain nominee over another out of animosity and spite

How true

 

[jamil]

BLAH BLAH BLAH.......

Are you blaming Trump for the viscious attacks on him since 2015?

He shares some blame in the extent to which he reinforced the straw monster the press made of him. That **** he played after the election turned a lot of people off on him, including on the right. And now it pays dividends when the blue/pink haired activists knock on doors to get otherwise non-political Zoomers, to fill out their ballots in swing states to vote against literally Hitler.

You know, the attacks where crap was made up but nothing to date has stuck? Is that is? Or can it be that the new administration does what every other new administration does, change previous changes! Is that it? Or can it be that Mitch and the others never really supported the president and we now see the real characters of such people, aligning with the socialists instead of representing us. Can that be it?

Okay. You say that all those things are the causes Trump didn't have any long term accomplishments (other than the judges, which were hand picked by Mitch and the gang anyway). And there's a lot of truth to that. So if he doesn't have a successful record beating them, how is it going to be different this time?

The question is, can Trump make some lasting changes?

We don't know. He doesn't have any experience making any. Which is why the "experience" argument fails. But, let's hear what he has to say. There will undoubtedly be several candidates in the race by the time election season 2024 comes around. Let's hear what they all have to say. Is Trump's message gonna be substantive? Or will it all be the usual Trumpian cheetos puffs?

Is Trump save all? I never once said that nor will I; however, we have less than 2 years to go and he is the only candidate at this time. The write ins (i.e. DeSantis) hasn't said a word. Who's gonna run?

Well, obviously that's a bit of intentional hyperbole, because some of you guys act like he is a savior, exclusively equipped with a "proven record". I liked his policies, other than his fiscal policy of, "debt? Meh." But I do think he can get the economy at least turned towards a better direction. During another Trump term I think he'll slow down the woke train. And if it comes to it, I'd take it if that's all we can get.

What is YOUR POSITIVE in making this country great again? All I hear is the never Trumper's building a path to yet another loss.

The USA is a crap hole at this time; what are you gonna do about it that is any better than what Trump can bring?

I see it as Trumpers building a path to another loss. Trump's been undone and he's helped TPTB undoo him. You guys love him for not being a politician, for lacking the polish of a politician. I'm sorry but he is one, and he has to be one. I don't like the polish, but it's a necessary evil in the game of politics. The whole reason for polish is, apart from offense, it's a defense from the machine. He got chewed up and spit out because he couldn't navigate the all out assault.

The best defense against being called literally Hitler is not acting in a way that makes it stick. I really wish Trump could learn that lesson. But he hasn't. He can't. He's incapable of self reflection.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

And just to be clear... for 2016, Trump announced in June 2015, initially with no positions stated on his website. Then he added immigration reform, which was the only position stated until mid-September 2015, when he added 2A.

DONALD J. TRUMP POSITIONS

Donald J. Trump is the very definition of the American success story, continually setting the standards of excellence in business, real estate and entertainment. Show support for his presidential campaign here.

web.archive.org

By the end of September, he added tax reform.

DONALD J. TRUMP POSITIONS

Donald J. Trump is the very definition of the American success story, continually setting the standards of excellence in business, real estate and entertainment. Show support for his presidential campaign here.

web.archive.org

By the end of 2015, he added positions on China trade and VA reform.

DONALD J. TRUMP POSITIONS

Donald J. Trump is the very definition of the American success story, continually setting the standards of excellence in business, real estate and entertainment. Show support for his presidential campaign here.

web.archive.org

And that was it when the primaries started Feb 1, 2016.

DONALD J. TRUMP POSITIONS

Donald J. Trump is the very definition of the American success story, continually setting the standards of excellence in business, real estate and entertainment. Show support for his presidential campaign here.

web.archive.org

I'm not detracting from his AF policies as President the vast majority of which I enthusiastically support... but he didn't have a fully formed AF platform "out of the starting box".

 

[jamil]

And some people devoted to [anyone but a certain man] seem suspiciously unwilling to let the primaries play out in '24 and are pushing the narrative that [a certain man] not even be considered pretty hard

I haven't ever advocated for not letting the primaries play out. I've never said Trump shouldn't run. You guys gloss over the negatives as if they don't exist. I'm telling it like it is. I don't think Trump can win. I hope there is someone better to run. I hope if someone better runs that it's obvious enough that people will support that candidate. But if not, and Trump's all we got. So be it. We'll go for it and see what happens.

It's also fair that I predict what happens. Trump loses, because ballot harvesting works so well against "literally Hitler," and then AF dies.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

"Why are we giving more than USD 40 Billion to Ukraine while Europe, by comparison, is giving very little, and they are greatly more impacted by a Russian invasion, obviously, than the US," Trump said in a statement on Thursday.

13 May 2022

So what is his policy on Ukraine? That we shouldn't be giving that much? Or any? Or that EU should be giving more?

I could agree with his statement and still fully support the $40B... or I could agree with his statement and think it should be $0.

ETA: And why isn't it on his campaign website?

 

[jamil]

In its current iteration it is a platform, started by one man, trying to kick start a movement…

I think we could say that it's a new movement. It's at least that. And Trump should get credit for getting it going to the extent that it has.

 

[BugI02]

but he didn't have a fully formed AF platform "out of the starting box".

That's because he rebuilt AF from the ground up. Now, AF is popular with the conservative right and is already built. The only reason I can see for not getting on board, if someone wants to inherit the mantle of AF, is they are waiting to see which way the winds will be blowing in '24 - and that's not a good look

 

[jamil]

I said they must have thought it was possible or they would not have spent energy on it.

My understanding of what was passed concerning same sex marriage was not legalizing it but rather requiring all states to recognize marriages from other states…

Every legal theory is possible until it's tried and fails. The way it played out, it failed spectacularly, effectively. Some bat **** crazy ideologues want to put him in jail just for smelling the smoke wafting up from the heap of its smoldering ashes.

It's definitely dead prior. But, putting it into legislation put the nail in the coffin.

 

[BugI02]

So what is his policy on Ukraine? That we shouldn't be giving that much? Or any? Or that EU should be giving more?

I could agree with his statement and still fully support the $40B... or I could agree with his statement and think it should be $0.

ETA: And why isn't it on his campaign website?

Maybe when you've already given your opinion publicly you don't feel the need to post up on your campaign site? I believe the second quote makes quite clear that he thinks Europe should be taking the lead on money for Ukraine, and since they have given about 1/6 of what we have I think his intent in the matter is clear

Not sure how Trump not using exactly the words you think he should, while actually HAVING a Ukraine position, contrasts unfavorably somehow with the GWH having none

 

[SheepDog4Life]

That's because he rebuilt AF from the ground up. Now, AF is popular with the conservative right and is already built. The only reason I can see for not getting on board, if someone wants to inherit the mantle of AF, is they are waiting to see which way the winds will be blowing in '24 - and that's not a good look

Or they are doing it the "traditional" way... especially for Governors, they tend to announce after the legislative session is over, both so they can do their job... and so they can show their recent accomplishments.

And, for Florida governor, their current law is that state officials must resign to run for national office... quitting immediately after being elected is a very bad look.

Finally, Trump's very early announcement was meant, I think, to be bold and powerful... and to clear the field of anyone else considering a run. It didn't come off that way... quite the opposite.

 

[jamil]

I guess from your perspective it's all a matter of if you criticize/trash my candidate/potential candidate then it's only fair game for me to criticize/trash your candidate/potential candidate from either side.

That is also your perogative.

I don't think discussions like this should turn into a tit for tat. But when it's really about the man more than the movement, it just does. I have no confidence that if someone did show themselves to be a better choice than Trump on the issues, that the loyal Trumpers could look objectively at that and say, yeah, that's better. Can they change their minds if reliable information presents itself?

I've made it known that in my opinion, Trump isn't the the right guy. And I've given my reasons for that, and what I think are the relevant criticisms. We don't even have another choice at this point. Only potential choices. But there is only one choice ever for loyal Trumpers, regardless of any facts. But people say that I'm saying they can't have their candidate. And I've said no such thing. It's a free country. Support your candidate.

My comments have mainly been about deciding if loyal Trump supporters can decide to go in a different direction, or if their support is deterministic. If the latter, it's really the man and not the movement. It looks to me like for some, it is deterministic. It is the man and not the movement. The movement IS Trump.

 

[jamil]

So what is his policy on Ukraine? That we shouldn't be giving that much? Or any? Or that EU should be giving more?

I could agree with his statement and still fully support the $40B... or I could agree with his statement and think it should be $0.

ETA: And why isn't it on his campaign website?

I don't know about Trump. My number is zero. Ukraine is a corrupt **** hole. I feel bad for the people of Ukraine. I don't think they have a lot of choice in the corruption. I'd be for sending humanitarian aid. Military aid? Nope. Just sayin'.

 

[Ingomike]

The situation we’re in, government is broken.

Agreed.

 

[KG1]

I don't think discussions like this should turn into a tit for tat. But when it's really about the man more than the movement, it just does. I have no confidence that if someone did show themselves to be a better choice than Trump on the issues, that the loyal Trumpers could look objectively at that and say, yeah, that's better. Can they change their minds if reliable information presents itself?

I've made it known that in my opinion, Trump isn't the the right guy. And I've given my reasons for that, and what I think are the relevant criticisms. We don't even have another choice at this point. Only potential choices. But there is only one choice ever for loyal Trumpers, regardless of any facts. But people say that I'm saying they can't have their candidate. And I've said no such thing. It's a free country. Support your candidate.

My comments have mainly been about deciding if loyal Trump supporters can decide to go in a different direction, or if their support is deterministic. If the latter, it's really the man and not the movement. It looks to me like for some, it is deterministic. It is the man and not the movement. The movement IS Trump.

I think most believe in an AF movement overall. It's just that some feel Trump should continue to lead that movement and he is the best one to do the job.

 

[jamil]

How true

I will not vote for Trump in the primary if I think a better alternative exists. So, if it's Trump vs Pence, I'm going Trump. But if it's Trump vs Pence as late as May, when Hoosiers vote, Imma be very disappointed that Trump didn't send him packing way earlier. If Pence even made it until Super Tuesday, it will mean the sane voters didn't throw rotten tomatoes at him on the announcement stage.

 

[Ingomike]

But I think we need someone with a full tool set. I’m unsure if we have such a person, but it’s clear it’s not Trump. He has a pretty good tool set if you just want to troll the libs, and superficially fix things things through EO’s until the next guy comes in and erases all of it.

As the arguments from both sides progress, it becomes more and more obvious that the support for AF among certain people is rooted in the persona of Trump. It has to be Trump or no one.

My own thought, is that if it can’t be someone with a fuller tool set, Trump is the fill in, at best. But might also make it even harder for the person that has a full tool set.

Trump is over. I just hope the opposition isn’t over too.

First off more of your putting words in others mouths. A belief that Trump is best suited to the challenge is not “rooted in persona” it is rooted in actual evaluations of what the individual did previously under unprecedented fire.

 

[jamil]

I think most believe in an AF movement overall. It's just that some feel Trump should continue to lead that movement and he is the best one to do the job.

If that were the case I think I would not see some of the most ridiculous arguments thrown at obvious counterpoints to Trump's fitment for the job. You've been capable of acknowledging some weaknesses while continuing to support him overall. I don't think some are.

 

[Ingomike]

They are merely following the lead of fearless leader.

I don't want to know who you guys follow…

(I do not follow anyone at the current time.)