Traffic stop, officer confiscated my firearms.

[public servant]

Keep in mind the officer and or PO have two years to file any additional charges on you.

This.

I could have been arrested for operating while intoxicated but all I got was this lousy $150 non-pointable ticket...

Can I get that on a t-shirt???

 

[Denny347]

It's 4 points.

What EXACTLY was the ticket for? Moving violations incur points, equipment does not (usually). Trailer lights = 4 points?

 

[LionWeight]

Pride goeth before the fall. What I hear from this is you were breaking the law and got stopped, you were almost breaking the law and are upset that the policeman had the nerve to give you some advise that your old enough not to need. Now you want to make him suffer for your bad choices. You fail to realize that he could have pushed this MUCH farther than he did. He let you go with little more than bruised feelings. You had an underaged driver operating a vehicle with a trailer. Whether it happens all the time or not is beside the point. It's still ILLEGAL. You had alcohol in your system to just under the limit. I can't begin to theorize the reason HE took your guns. I can only think of the reasons why I would have taken them. You got them back. If I were you I'd let it go, not let my son drive until he's legal to, and quit drinking while I'm going to be on the road with guns. You said it yourself, guns and alcohol don't mix. You may even want to thank that PO the next time you see him for playing nice.

 

[Indy317]

Not an easy way to save $150 though!

I would love to have a lawyer but unfortunately cost a lot of money. With only $150 on the line, it makes no sense. I did call around and the cheapest I could come up with was around $500 for someone to show up and hold my hand while I plea guilty and beg for mercy. I've already set aside the $150 + maybe $35 court cost and am going for it.

If you don't win the case, it might be more than $150.00 I think:

IC 34-28-5-4

 

[TTravis]

What EXACTLY was the ticket for? Moving violations incur points, equipment does not (usually). Trailer lights = 4 points?

I did not get a ticket at all. I received a order to appear. The infraction is the following:

IC 9-24-18-4
Permitting unlawful use of vehicle
Sec. 4. (a) A person may not authorize or knowingly permit a motor vehicle owned by the person or under the person's control to be driven by a person who does not have a legal right to do so or in violation of this title.
(b) A person who violates this section commits a Class C infraction.

 

[TTravis]

If you don't win the case, it might be more than $150.00 I think:

IC 34-28-5-4

Not much more. I have not had any moving violations in the past 10 years so the court cost is $35. If I had one it would be $250, If I had two, it would be $500. I forget where I read that. Maybe it was in the local court information. I will verify this with the court clerk.

If the request to suppress evidence due to an officer's mistake of law voiding his probable cause is denied, I will most likely just pay the $150 fine before the trial date. I think I have a pretty good chance that it will get thrown out. I now you LEO guys are not happy with me for fighting this ticket and I appreciate your opinions. I don't know what is like from a cops or prosecutor perspective to loose a case like this. I would like to hear from LEO's on this. I wouldn't think it is a big deal or they would even care. They did their job, I did mine, let the judge decide.

 

[youngda9]

I did not get a ticket at all. I received a order to appear. The infraction is the following:

IC 9-24-18-4
Permitting unlawful use of vehicle
Sec. 4. (a) A person may not authorize or knowingly permit a motor vehicle owned by the person or under the person's control to be driven by a person who does not have a legal right to do so or in violation of this title.
(b) A person who violates this section commits a Class C infraction.

And you are 100% guilty of this per your admission. Do you think you have a better chance of leniency if you throw yourself on the mercy of the court or fight this?

What is the penalty for a "Class C infraction"(is it only $150 max)...does the judge have discression in the sentencing or penalty($) imposed for this infraction?

 

[TTravis]

And you are 100% guilty of this per your admission. Do you think you have a better chance of leniency if you throw yourself on the mercy of the court or fight this?

What is the penalty for a "Class C infraction"(is it only $150 max)...does the judge have discretion in the sentencing or penalty($) imposed for this infraction?

I did not admit anything yet, but you get the idea. I don't plan to ask for leniency. If I loose, I pay the fine, plain and simple.

I do not know that the judge can do. It is not the $150 I am worried about. It is the 4 points. When I loolked it up in the guidelines, all it said was $150 and 4 points.

 

[absrio]

Did the trailer have a reflector on each side?

 

[TTravis]

Did the trailer have a reflector on each side?

Yes, the lights have built in reflectors. They are typical trailer lights. The running lights, turn signals, and emergency flashers were working properly. The lights are the new bright LED type.

There was also reflective tape on the boat itself.

Actually, I just went to look at the boat. It has a separate set of reflectors in the form of old trailer lights. I installed newer diode lights above what is normally the water level when I launch the boat to keep them from blowing out or being eaten by salt water.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So why exactly is OP fighting if he actually did commit the offense?

 

[youngda9]

So why exactly is OP fighting if he actually did commit the offense?

That he shouldn't have been pulled over in the first place...er I mean the under-age son driving the car shouldn't have been pulled over...ahem, yeah that's it.

OK OK. How do I say this as to not incriminate myself. ALLEGEDLY my 15 year old son was driving. He does not have his permit yet. This would not be uncommon in his area for a father to let his son drive the last couple miles home. This is out in the country.

The poor kid got screwed. They changed the law to where he had to be 15.5 for a learners permit. His two older sisters had their permits at 15. In may, they changed it back to 15, but they are not implementing the new policy until January 1, 2012. The day he turns 15.5! Like I said, ALLEGEDLY.

 

[lrahm]

I agree that he can't legally drive. There is no question about that. Ability wise, he is ready. Maturity wise, he is ready. By some fluke the state decided to jack with the age requirement so all of a sudden, he can't start as young as his sisters did just a few years ago. That sucks for him, it really does, but it's the law, at least for the next three months until it changes back to where it was two years ago. I can assure all of you he will have that magical piece of paper that makes things right, and safe, and legal in only three more months and we will wait till that time. In three months, the age goes back to 15.0. I know I can't bend the rules without breaking them. He was caught in a wrinkle of time that denied him of his rightful privilege to learn to drive at his age. He is truly a good kid as evident by his grades and the way he lives his life. Please understand that I would never let him try anything if he was not ready, or it might be dangerous. He has a good teacher that will show him the ways of the road and the things that he needs to know that go far beyond what they teach in driving school. That is the experience that a good parent passes on to a child. He already has his first bad traffic stop experience under his belt.

When I was 14, my grandfather would let me drive on back roads on fishing trips. My grandmother worried about the two of us going off into the back country alone and what if something happened to him. She wanted me to have the ability to haul him back to civilization. We did not have cell phones like we do today. My son goes fishing alone with my elderly father. He has a cell phone, but still in the back country, a kid might have to rely on himself. The same goes for hunting trips. It is just one more tradition that this panzy ass society can't seem to deal with. No, it doesn't make it legal, but those of us fathers who are fortunate enough to have a close relationship with their teenage sons, that is just one of the things we do. The first parent of older kids I ever met and asked, that said he never let his kids do that, was the police officer himself! That is probably only because he is a cop. I have talked to a lot of dads around here about this. That still doesn't make it right according to the law, but it is not something to be ashamed of. Maybe city kids are different, but out here, country boys have country ways and that is just the way it is.

This started as a thread about the officer's right to take away my guns. Fortunately for me I had that magical piece of pink paper that kept me out of jail for having them. That piece of pink paper does not make me any more safe. I have to be safe on my own. I was angry and wanted to strike back at that officer in any legal way I could. You guys helped me see the light and I feel much better now.

Somehow, and I was the one asking the questions, this turned into a discussion where I gained a lot of ideas on how to fight that ticket in court. I guess that goes along with figuring out whether he was within his rights to take my guns away. Is it right for me to fight that ticket?...... It's my right to try and I don't see anyone here is faulting me for it. Being able to exchange questions with all of you here has helped me be more informed and prepared. If noting else, I have learned a lot since that day about all my constitutional rights and I am kind of glad I have them. I fought for those rights in the Amy, but I did not understand or appreciate them like I do now.

I've been picking apart the law and asking a lot of questions. There is nothing wrong with that. This discussion will be out there for a long time and hopefully somebody else can benefit from it. I appreciate all of you who contribute ideas and views and I thank all of you for your words.

Maturity wise doesn't make a difference. If he is 20 can he drink? If he is 17 can he vote? He can drive when he has a valid lisense, not before. You allowed him to drive, you are guilty of allowing an unlicensed or underage driver to drive your car. Quit your whining and making excuses. You have already admitted this on the net. Pay the fine or plead not guilty. Tell us how it comes out.

 

[youngda9]

Maybe the procecutor will come to court with printouts of TS own words...like in the Liberty Sanders case.

This quote is...interesting to say the least:

He was caught in a wrinkle of time that denied him of his rightful privilege to learn to drive at his age.

 

[public servant]

I'm thinking that if a trailer has lights they must be operational. But I don't have a dog in this fight and I don't feel like looking it up. So I'll just wait for the OP to update after his court date.

 

[Sailor]

I think he took the guns because he was afraid of your next bad decision.

 

[lrahm]

I think he took the guns because he was afraid of your next bad decision.

He was .07% BAC, I wouldn't let him have them either.

 

[TTravis]

I think he took the guns because he was afraid of your next bad decision.

Well he did not take the LTCH thank God. After released I was unarmed for a whole 3 or 4 minutes until I got home. They had my "tackle box guns" for 10 days, but I was not exactly defenseless during that time.

I called a friend of a friend who happens to be a recently retired, high ranking, state trooper. He agrees with me about the brake lights not being required by law on the trailer. He said, if necessary, he will take some video from behind my trailer one night and testify for me. I was surprised that he is willing to help me with the facts of the matter and he told me there was no honor in paying a ticket if you feel you have a good defense. It is amazing of the connections you can make if you have a good bird dog and hunting season is coming up!

 

[sloughfoot]

It probably does not pertain to your case, since you have such a strong defense. (In your opinion)

But, I have witnessed a Judge ORDERING the Prosecutor to come back with a more appropriate charge for a defendant who tried to game the system after being given breaks by the arresting Officer and the Prosecutor's Office. And then continued the game in his courtroom.

In other words, a pissed off Judge is someone to be feared.

Two crimes were committed that evening. One by you, one by your son. Not just a traffic infraction. You really need to realize that. They chose to not charge you with those crimes.

You really need an attorney at your side if you choose to fight it.

 

[Scutter01]

What EXACTLY was the ticket for? Moving violations incur points, equipment does not (usually). Trailer lights = 4 points?

I got a parking ticket that was worth two points. A PARKING TICKET. The fine was ten dollars. And two points. I was told by the BMV that virtually EVERYTHING related to your vehicle is pointable if the ticket is written by an officer (rather than, say, a parking enforcement person).