Traffic stop, officer confiscated my firearms.

[TTravis]

Then that should answer your question, shouldn't it?

You sir are amazing. I've been going over that for a couple days without that word "highway" jumping out at me.

I've got one more for you and it has to do with PC. Remember the brake light not working?

I've been reading IC 9-19-6-7 (6) (B)

(6) On a trailer, semitrailer, or pole trailer weighing not more than three thousand (3,000) pounds gross weight, the following:
(A) On the rear, two (2) reflectors, one (1) on each side.
(B) If a trailer or semitrailer is loaded or is of the dimensions that obscure the stoplight on the towing vehicle, one (1) stoplight.

Now my little fishing boat is only 4'2" wide. My tail lights on my car are 6' wide. You can see the brake lights on the car, so they are not needed on the trailer????????

If this is the case, then I am looking at something called "Mistake of law" in 4th amendment case law. If the officer made a mistake about my required lights, and pulled me over, then he as no probable cause. Just like the guy that got pulled over for leaving his blinker on (I've done it), but there is no law against that.

What do you think?

 

[lrahm]

You sir are amazing. I've been going over that for a couple days without that word "highway" jumping out at me.

I've got one more for you and it has to do with PC. Remember the brake light not working?

I've been reading IC 9-19-6-7 (6) (B)

(6) On a trailer, semitrailer, or pole trailer weighing not more than three thousand (3,000) pounds gross weight, the following:
(A) On the rear, two (2) reflectors, one (1) on each side.
(B) If a trailer or semitrailer is loaded or is of the dimensions that obscure the stoplight on the towing vehicle, one (1) stoplight.

Now my little fishing boat is only 4'2" wide. My tail lights on my car are 6' wide. You can see the brake lights on the car, so they are not needed on the trailer????????

If this is the case, then I am looking at something called "Mistake of law" in 4th amendment case law. If the officer made a mistake about my required lights, and pulled me over, then he as no probable cause. Just like the guy that got pulled over for leaving his blinker on (I've done it), but there is no law against that.

What do you think?

A trailer in Indiana needs lights and plates.

 

[TTravis]

A trailer in Indiana needs lights and plates.

Absolutely, running, plate, and turn which I have, but what about the brake on >3000 and can see brake lights on towing vehicle?

 

[Benny]

I've been going over that for a couple days without that word "highway" jumping out at me.

I've got one more for you and it has to do with PC. Remember the brake light not working?

I've been reading IC 9-19-6-7 (6) (B)

(6) On a trailer, semitrailer, or pole trailer weighing not more than three thousand (3,000) pounds gross weight, the following:
(A) On the rear, two (2) reflectors, one (1) on each side.
(B) If a trailer or semitrailer is loaded or is of the dimensions that obscure the stoplight on the towing vehicle, one (1) stoplight.

Now my little fishing boat is only 4'2" wide. My tail lights on my car are 6' wide. You can see the brake lights on the car, so they are not needed on the trailer????????

If this is the case, then I am looking at something called "Mistake of law" in 4th amendment case law. If the officer made a mistake about my required lights, and pulled me over, then he as no probable cause. Just like the guy that got pulled over for leaving his blinker on (I've done it), but there is no law against that.

What do you think?

I'm just an "idiot from the internet, (thanks for the quote, Scutter)" so it doesn't matter what I think...You may have a case, but I can't possibly see how hiring an attorney would be worth it. Fighting that infraction couldn't possibly be worth the attorney fees, but on top of it you'll be on the bad side of the local PD...You live in a small town and they now know your vehicle.

You sir are amazing.

I might have a new sig line.

 

[TTravis]

I'm just an "idiot from the internet, (thanks for the quote, Scutter)" so it doesn't matter what I think...You may have a case, but I can't possibly see how hiring an attorney would be worth it. Fighting that infraction couldn't possibly be worth the attorney fees, but on top of it you'll be on the bad side of the local PD...You live in a small town and they now know your vehicle.



I might have a new sig line.

No, I'm not going to hire an attorney. I think I might have a point, but that is easy to bring up on my own.

I don't hire lawyers, I grow them! My daughter at IU is going into law school! I need the $150 bucks to help pay.

 

[lrahm]

Absolutely, running, plate, and turn which I have, but what about the brake on >3000 and can see brake lights on towing vehicle?

If it is a fishing boat trailer, it needs brake lights.

 

[Benny]

If it is a fishing boat trailer, it needs brake lights.

I don't want to put words into the OP's mouth, so I'll just ask this question on my behalf: Are broken trailer lights PC to search a vehicle?

 

[TTravis]

If it is a fishing boat trailer, it needs brake lights.

Not if it doesn't obscure the brake lights on the towing vehicle and it's under 3000 pounds the way I read it. I have to admit, that was a total surprise to me.

dimensions that obscure the stoplight on the towing vehicle, one (1)

 

[TTravis]

I don't want to put words into the OP's mouth, so I'll just ask this question on my behalf: Are broken trailer lights PC to search a vehicle?

Benny, I don't think I needed brake lights because of that line in the code, but you bring up another point.

When you say "search the vehicle", what exactly do you mean? I've been reading so much 4A stuff, my head is spinning. Does search the vehicle include asking for a license and registration, or does it mean digging through my stuff looking for something illegal. I've been reading up on this Terry stop stuff.

 

[Benny]

At the scene, the officer went ahead and searched my vehicle, without my connect.

(I can only assume you meant "consent.")

Benny, I don't think I needed brake lights because of that line in the code, but you bring up another point.

When you say "search the vehicle", what exactly do you mean? I've been reading so much 4A stuff, my head is spinning. Does search the vehicle include asking for a license and registration, or does it mean digging through my stuff looking for something illegal. I've been reading up on this Terry stop stuff.

I guess I'd have to first ask you what the emboldened part means before I (or better yet, someone more suitable) can answer your questions...What exactly did the officer search?

 

[jsharmon7]

I don't want to put words into the OP's mouth, so I'll just ask this question on my behalf: Are broken trailer lights PC to search a vehicle?

Broken trailer lights are not PC to search a vehicle. lrahm is correct that the trailer needs to have lights.

 

[Rookie]

Let me see if I've got this straight. Your son (who is too young to hold a valid permit) may or may not have been driving your vehicle. Correct? You received a ticket for the alleged offense, and, because the officer decided you were in no state to drive, he allowed someone else to come drive your vehicle home. If this is true, what could possibly be your defense? It's not fair?

Make sure to stomp your feet when you are presenting your argument.

 

[TTravis]

(I can only assume you meant "consent.")



I guess I'd have to first ask you what the emboldened part means before I (or better yet, someone more suitable) can answer your questions...What exactly did the officer search?

He searched all through the car, and looked around inside the boat. I don't think he opened up the storage compartments in the boat, but he did open up and look in the cooler back there which, by that time only had water bottles and energy drinks. He figured out pretty quickly that we were just a father and son on a fishing trip and not crack heads.

I could care less about him looking for illegal stuff. I just didn't know if search meant checking for a license as well.

I'll have to look up what "emboldened part" means. I've never used that term.

The word you brought up last night "highway" woke me up in the middle of the night. Remembering that there was one obvious rock that I have not turned over. I went and pulled up the following code, and there is that word again.

IC 9-24-18-1
Driving without a license
Sec. 1. (a) A person, except a person exempted under IC 9-24-1-7, who knowingly or intentionally operates a motor vehicle upon a highway and has never received a valid driving license commits a Class C misdemeanor. However, the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the person has a prior unrelated conviction under this section.
(b) In addition to any other penalty imposed for a conviction under this section, the court shall recommend that the person be prohibited from receiving a valid driving license for a fixed period of at least ninety (90) days and not more than two (2) years.
(c) The court shall specify:
(1) the length of the fixed period of the prohibition; and
(2) the date the fixed period of the prohibition begins;
whenever the court makes a recommendation under subsection (b).
(d) The bureau shall, upon receiving a record of conviction of a person upon a charge of operating a motor vehicle while never having received a valid driving license, prohibit the person from receiving a driving license for a fixed period of at least ninety (90) days and not more than two (2) years. The bureau shall fix this period in accordance with the recommendation of the court that entered the conviction, as provided in subsection (c).
(e) In a prosecution under this section, the burden is on the defendant to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the defendant had been issued a driving license or permit that was valid at the time of the alleged offense.

 

[KG1]

When was the search of the vehicle and for what reason? Was it before or after you blew .07 or was it after it was estabilished that you had firearms? Sounds from the way you said he searched, including the boat and checking in the cooler he may have been looking for open alcohol containers

 

[TTravis]

Let me see if I've got this straight. Your son (who is too young to hold a valid permit) may or may not have been driving your vehicle. Correct? You received a ticket for the alleged offense, and, because the officer decided you were in no state to drive, he allowed someone else to come drive your vehicle home. If this is true, what could possibly be your defense? It's not fair?

Make sure to stomp your feet when you are presenting your argument.

You pretty much got that right, except I was under the limit, I showed no sign of being impaired, and after standing there and talking to him for nearly an hour, I would have been even less impaired. He gave me every chance to smart off, become aggressive, or argumentative, but it just didn't happen.

I make no apology for trying to find a crack in the law to slip through. This is just good defense, within the rule of law, and part of the game. I am learning more than I knew in over 34 years of driving in the process.

 

[TTravis]

When was the search of the vehicle and for what reason? Was it before or after you blew .07 or was it after it was estabilished that you had firearms? Sounds from the way you said he searched, including the boat and checking in the cooler he may have been looking for open alcohol containers

I think it was just after he pulled us over, asked for license and I told him about my firearms. He then removed me from the car, put me in cuffs, and then tested me for alcohol.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Broken trailer lights are not PC to search a vehicle. lrahm is correct that the trailer needs to have lights.

Actually, if the tail lights of the power unit can be seen with the trailer in tow, the trailer needs no lights. Also, if the trailer has functioning lights, the lights on the power unit are no longer required equipment when connected to the trailer.

 

[jbombelli]

just to make sure nobody puts their foot in their mouths when it comes to the term "highway"...


IC 9-13-2-73
Highway or street
Sec. 73. "Highway" or "street" means the entire width between the boundary lines of every publicly maintained way when any part of the way is open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel. The term includes an alley in a city or town.
As added by P.L.2-1991, SEC.1.

 

[public servant]

Let me see if I've got this straight. Your son (who is too young to hold a valid permit) may or may not have been driving your vehicle. Correct? You received a ticket for the alleged offense, and, because the officer decided you were in no state to drive, he allowed someone else to come drive your vehicle home. If this is true, what could possibly be your defense? It's not fair?

Make sure to stomp your feet when you are presenting your argument.

You're leaving out the part where he's looking to sue someone because he was wronged.

People are ****ing amazing.

 

[Denny347]

I also read in the OP that they were going to tow your vehicle. If they really were, they are allowed to do an inventory of your car and trailer. There is a lot of straw grasping going on here. MOVE ON!!!!!