To Mask or Not to Mask?

[GodFearinGunTotin]

See? I took it pretty easy on the Wendy's customers today. I didn't kill any of them!

You’re just not taking this thing seriously enough! By your inaction to kill a few (non maskers), you might well have caused the deaths of a great many more! I hope you’re happy.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

You’re just not taking this thing seriously enough! By your inaction to kill a few (non maskers), you might well have caused the deaths of a great many more! I hope you’re happy.

Next time I'll take one of my AR's!

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Next time I'll take one of my AR's!

 

[BugI02]

Wow. Some of these mask zealots are serious about it...

https://www.theblaze.com/news/man-r...qmnJ58Ar1aULY2ZAf1_95aiODPm4EXUl3h7OlpmE623ak

Not to be out done...

https://www.theblaze.com/news/secur...utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=fb-glennbeck

Note that these only proceed in one direction, that of mask zealots thinking their state's mandates allow them to force obedience because they approve of the overreach. I am aware of no cases of mask skeptics trying to force a devotée to unmask

 

[chipbennett]

That seems subjective from an empirical type of person.

Have you known someone who didn't know they were sick until someone else told them?

The default state is "healthy", not "sick". Sickness presents with certain symptoms. Absent symptoms, there is no reason to reject the null hypothesis of "healthy".

More importantly for the subject of wearing masks in response to Covid: as of yet, I can find no evidence, no studies, nothing empirical regarding the viral load of asymptomatic carriers. There is simply no evidence, as of yet, that asymptomatic carriers have high viral load in their exhalation. That viral load typically presents through symptomatic exhalation: i.e. coughing and sneezing.

 

[chipbennett]

I was just thinking that thought when read this.


We have whole INGO subsections devoted to survival, risk aversion, self defense... but suddenly putting on a cloth mask to avoid a disease is stupid.

We've let ourselves trick ourselves into thinking that putting on a mask is some sort act of subservience.


It seems to me we've let that perception and fear of tyranny trump logical risk aversion.
Maybe liberals aren't the only ones to operate on feelings.

Putting on a cloth mask will not avoid (this) disease. So, yes: if you're putting on a cloth mask because you think it will help you avoid (this) disease, then you might be stupid.

There is no "logical risk aversion" involved with healthy people wearing cloth masks.

 

[chipbennett]

But... you don't know if you're sick. Ever. That's the paradigm we're now operating under. If thems the rules, then thems the rules.

By their logic, cold and flu season might look quite a bit different henceforth.

 

[chipbennett]

Nothing wins arguments on INGO like accusing your adversary of being, "if it just saves one life".

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman


But you do know if there's a really nasty influenza virus floating around with asymptotic carriers in the population.

So, yeah, you kind of do know you're not likely to be sick with a very nasty bug.


You're trying to complete ignore statistics, probability, basic epidemiology and logic.
And failing.

Please cite the statistics, probability, basic epidemiology, and logic for healthy people wearing masks. Quantify the risk, and the risk mitigation, and show your work.

I've looked. I can't find any studies involving the viral load of the exhalation of asymptomatic carriers. Unless you can demonstrate such a viral load, and quantify the risk of that viral load causing infection, you cannot quantify the risk mitigation of asymptomatic carriers wearing masks.

Further, quantify the number of asymptomatic carriers to begin with. Quantify the risk that someone not presenting symptoms is an asymptomatic carrier rather than a healthy non-carrier.

 

[chipbennett]

Do you own a gun for self defense?

Do you carry it everywhere?

Why or why not?

I carry NSAIDs and various other medicines around.

The gun analogy would seem to be strained beyond application. It would be applicable to someone wearing a respirator to mitigate the risk of being harmed by another person who might otherwise infect the wearer. The respirator is the gun. A cloth mask worn by a potentially asymptomatic carrier would be analogous to a criminal pointing a sheathed knife or a holstered gun at a would-be victim.

 

[churchmouse]

CKW and I went down to Moorseville today to spend our shopping money. LGS down there my buddy owns and Wards apparel. Couple of other shops CKW likes.
Not one freaking mask that I saw.

Save for grocery's this will be how we shop until Hognuts figures out he is killing the county.
But he is merely a puppet of the DNC so we are basically screwed until after the election.

 

[chevyguy]

At this point, I believe as a nation we are beyond wearing masks as a containment/slowdown tool and I haven't worn one even when the county made us.

 

[chipbennett]

Maybe this is a decent example.

If you are walking in your yard, why would you wear a mask? I wouldn't.
If you go to a hospital and had to walk down a hallway known to filled with dying COVID patients and were offered a mask would you wear it?

What would be the point? That mask is the proverbial screen door on a submarine in that scenario.

To me that is a similar choice as carrying a weapon. Maybe you don't in your back yard, but if you had to walk through an area known to be inhabited by a violent criminal element, you probably would at least think twice.

The difference in the stark examples is meant to illustrate that it is not all black (all clear) and white (death is certain). However, each of us has to choose how much grey (risk) we are comfortable with.

If someone else arrives at a different risk tolerance, fine. If a private entity chooses to enforce a mask policy fine. the interesting part, for me, is if one person chooses to go to, say, Costco and shop BECAUSE Costco requires masks, then they have a reasonable expectation that everyone else is wearing a mask and that makes them feel safe. That should mean a reasonable person who takes off their mask should expect something to be said to them. So I would side with the mask wearer.

I'm a big proponent of "concealed is concealed" and "don't ask, don't tell" with respect to carry of my firearm, and my decision-making process has nothing to do with what makes anyone else feel safe or unsafe. That is, granted, different from the mask scenario. But just as someone who approaches and accosts a firearm carrier because they "feel unsafe" disproves their assertion of feeling unsafe through their bold act of approaching and accosting the firearm carrier, someone who approaches and accosts a mask non-wearer because they "feel unsafe" belies their lack of truly feeling unsafe, by their willingness to enter into close proximity to the mask non-wearer, thereby exposing himself to the very risk he claims to want to avoid.

If shopping at a place that has a recommendation or no comment regarding masks, then a reasonable person should not expect everyone to be wearing masks.

If the government enforces a mask policy, well I may not like it, but I believe they are within their mandate to do so. Health departments get lots of leeway.

Government has no authority to compel healthy people to wear masks. Government has some authority to compel verified sick people to act in certain ways (such as enforced quarantine), but that authority does not extend to compelling those who are healthy.

 

[BugI02]

The default state is "healthy", not "sick". Sickness presents with certain symptoms. Absent symptoms, there is no reason to reject the null hypothesis of "healthy".

More importantly for the subject of wearing masks in response to Covid: as of yet, I can find no evidence, no studies, nothing empirical regarding the viral load of asymptomatic carriers. There is simply no evidence, as of yet, that asymptomatic carriers have high viral load in their exhalation. That viral load typically presents through symptomatic exhalation: i.e. coughing and sneezing.

Perhaps they are engaging in magical thinking along the lines of implicit bias and implicit racism. In their minds, we are spreaders and just don't know it - implicit contagion

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Note that these only proceed in one direction, that of mask zealots thinking their state's mandates allow them to force obedience because they approve of the overreach. I am aware of no cases of mask skeptics trying to force a devotée to unmask

I’m not surprised. When the lockdown was in “full force”, it was quite common for the Karens out there to try and rat out their neighbors if they didn’t think they were sufficiently locking themselves down. This is much along that same line of thinking. The threat of lethal force and blood shed is certainly a step beyond but still, you’re right, it does seem to give cover for vigilante enforcement.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

By their logic, cold and flu season might look quite a bit different henceforth.

That was my point.

 

[bwframe]

I've not been out much (crazy prepper dude .) When I have, didn't take long to figure which groceries to go to with like minded customers.

The couple times that I was noticeably outnumbered, other customers and staff were very courteous and no Karens.

I'm not anxious to go to places that don't want me though. I'm not the stir up trouble sort, nor am I one to take much .

I'm not about to put myself in situations where liberal ****s can stir or make stuff up to attempt get back at me for not playing their foolish games.

 

[SwikLS]

don't forget to wear your mask

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPt3kY5QwtQ

 

[JettaKnight]

don't forget to wear your mask

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPt3kY5QwtQ

Makin' money, is makin' money.

 

[two70]

I was just thinking that thought when read this.


We have whole INGO subsections devoted to survival, risk aversion, self defense... but suddenly putting on a cloth mask to avoid a disease is stupid.

We've let ourselves trick ourselves into thinking that putting on a mask is some sort act of subservience.


It seems to me we've let that perception and fear of tyranny trump logical risk aversion.
Maybe liberals aren't the only ones to operate on feelings.

Healthy people wearing masks is pretty stupid since it provides neither real benefit to the wearer or others. Especially, when simply maintaining a reasonable distances from other people is far more effective at preventing the spread of this over hyped disease. If the Gov wants to mandate safety devices perhaps they should mandate that everyone carries a cattle prod or jab stick with a 6' reach in order to discourage the space invaders that can't seem to maintain appropriate distance from others.

 

[Ziggidy]

I don't mind wearing a mask. I do mind being told it is a mandate when the whole world knows it is nothing more than a political maneuver to try to impact an election.

When all this started I remember hearing how the government was not going to allow profiteering from the pandemic. Masks, hand gel, sanitizer and such comes to mind. If I only had an endless bank account; I would love to have a public trial with the hogster trying to enforce something that is not law.

I posted in another thread that some churches are going to have sectioned off areas for those who wish to live freely and and not wear a mask.