Civil Religious Discussions : all things Christianity II

[ditcherman]

I want to get into this, but also want to respect this thread.

Well, it says "Religion" so don't bother if you're an atheist coming in here, it says "civil", you're fine there too, and it says "all things", so I don't see why not?
If someone feels their blood pressure go up and they want to argue they should leave or pm you I suppose?

 

[historian]

Well, it says "Religion" so don't bother if you're an atheist coming in here, it says "civil", you're fine there too, and it says "all things", so I don't see why not?
If someone feels their blood pressure go up and they want to argue they should leave or pm you I suppose?

I don't know. People from Ft. Wayne are weird...and smell funny

 

[ditcherman]

I don't know. People from Ft. Wayne are weird...and smell funny

Now now, what did we talk about in sunday school?

 

[Brad69]

Hey look at this!

 

[ditcherman]

Hey look at this!

Does Joel give an altar call at every service? Google says yes (I wouldn’t know), so when the ‘fbi’ guy called him out for lying it wasn’t a lie.
I think, among many other things I think about Joel Olsteen, that he blinks a lot, and that this was an obvious attempt to throw him under the bus. You need to do better. (Might not be hard)

The second one just sounds like something someone would say who is t a millionaire. Yet.

“Don’t worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. Then you will experience God’s peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus. And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise. Keep putting into practice all you learned and received from me—everything you heard from me and saw me doing. Then the God of peace will be with you.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭4‬:‭6‬-‭9‬

 

[Ziggidy]

Hey look at this!

What's the purpose of this post? Why did you post it? Just curious.

 

[Brad69]

What's the purpose of this post? Why did you post it? Just curious.

I believe that prosperity preacher's are using religion to make money. I would like INGOers opinion of prosperity preachers.

IMO a religious leader can have a life outside of teaching. It seems outrageous wealth from the church is not inline with faith?

I also think that many of them do not even believe in the word. They probably laugh about what they are doing behind the scenes.

 

[Firehawk]

I believe that prosperity preacher's are using religion to make money. I would like INGOers opinion of prosperity preachers.

IMO a religious leader can have a life outside of teaching. It seems outrageous wealth from the church is not inline with faith?

I also think that many of them do not even believe in the word. They probably laugh about what they are doing behind the scenes.

The term “prosperity preacher” may mean different things to different people so I’ll just speak to how I understand it.

First off there is nothing wrong with being wealthy. However it is wrong to love money. “The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil”. “You can not serve two masters… You can not serve both God and money”.

The problem is when a preacher says that your wealth and health is only limited by your faith. They take a few scriptures out of context and build a doctrine out it. When contrasted with the larger context of the Bible it doesn’t agree. Like when Jesus says “take up your cross and follow me”. And “Whoever desires to save his life will loose it but whoever looses his life for my sake will find it”. We are told throughout the scripture to keep an eternal perspective, looking forward to our Blessed Hope which is eternal life in Heaven. Prosperity preachers flip it around backwards and make success and wealth in this life more important than “storing up treasures in heaven” and more important than cultivating a personal relationship with Christ. Really what it is, is a false doctrine that makes money an idol. That’s my take anyway.

 

[foszoe]

I believe that prosperity preacher's are using religion to make money. I would like INGOers opinion of prosperity preachers..

Prosperity preachers are preaching heresy. They are preaching a false gospel.

The Christian should expect to suffer for Christ's sake.

I didn't watch the video for full disclosure.

 

[foszoe]

@Brad69, are you a Christian or considering Christianity? I am not trying to pry too much. But every so often, you have posted some things about Christian leaders acting in an unChristian like manner and I start3d wondering if these types of things were an impediment?

 

[Brad69]

Yeah I think it’s a trust issue foezoe you are very perceive.

 

[Ziggidy]

I believe that prosperity preacher's are using religion to make money. I would like INGOers opinion of prosperity preachers.

IMO a religious leader can have a life outside of teaching. It seems outrageous wealth from the church is not inline with faith?

I also think that many of them do not even believe in the word. They probably laugh about what they are doing behind the scenes.

I think too often "we" spend too much time thinking how others should act, behave, live their life. Instead, why don't "we" work on our personal relationship (our walk) with Christ?

The enemy has been very successful even when we know better, we have been warned about it and we have escape outlets. Distractions such as those prevent us from moving forward, it holds us back and it can easily borderline sinful judgement of others.

I know people who refuse to consider Christ because of the questionable behavior of others. That is a sad reality. Do you know anyone like that?

My 2 cents for "us"; don't worry about others, worry about your own path. Christ is real and one never knows when they will come face to face with Him. He will either let you in or tell you He never knew you.

 

[foszoe]

Yeah I think it’s a trust issue foezoe you are very perceive.

I don't know exactly what stage you are in, but if you are agnostic in any way, here is a possible path forward. It is not my own fabrication but advice mostly from one presbyter with smatterings of others built in. These things worked for me, perhaps they will help you.

In the late 1980s early 1990s, a young man who went to a Christian School for grades 1-7 affiliated with the Church of God (Holiness), basically Wesleyan or Nazarene background went off to Purdue and became so disenfranchised with with the Christian faith as practiced around him, he became bascially an agnostic. Yes the times of Jimmy Swaggart, Jim and Tammy Faye, Faith Healers besides seeing small towns having 10 different churches had an effect on me too. It took almost a decade, then I wrote the following as I began my own search to find meaning. I sent it to my mom, and somehow years later, I found out it made it into a pastor's illustration book for sin. I was beginning to reawaken to God but I still had questions.

I just walked in the front door of my house. I live less than a mile north of Purdue University and its football stadium in a nice middle class neighborhood. Tonight the Indianapolis Colts played an exhibition game against the Saints I believe. Anyways following the game there was to be a fireworks display. When I heard it begin, I hurried out into the front yard and sat beneath a tree to watch. The colors were spectacular and I was impressed by their brilliance and being so close I felt the concussion of their explosions.

Some of the shells went off behind a solitary tree that must have been a block away. Sometimes, even those of you that would find it hard to believe, I can get a little choked up. As I watched the fireworks dance around this tree, I began to praise God for the intelligence that he has given man. How we can light up the night sky and array it in a myriad of colors. Yet His loving creation of this tree, rather than obscuring my view, seemed to be watching it with me, and using the wind through his leaves to make the colors bright.

My eyes misted up as I began to wonder how long the tree that was watching the display with me had been standing and how many fireworks shows it had seen. In a moment I was experiencing a real blessing, thanking God because I was unable to attend the 4th of July since I worked that I had got to see one now.

Then there came a lull in the display and off in the distance, I began to hear another sound, a sound that interrupted the silence normally heard in my neighborhood. The sound of car alarms warning their owners that they were under attack. It jolted me somewhat from my happiness. I began to wonder why must man fear other man?

I then began to see a part of the answer, we have lost the fear of God. After the brief lull of only a few seconds, the fireworks started again, once more I was fascinated by the their luminescent tracings across sky, but the sound of the car alarms that I had never heard until the silence, were now hidden beneath the roar of the fireworks. I could hear them still. At the
finale, I was impressed by the light show! But as quickly as the sounds of launching rockets had forced me to stand up so I could see around my tree friend, the rush of fireworks came to a halt.

I was left with only darkness and the sound of car alarms, reminding me that no matter how hard humankind tries to make become happy, that until he makes himself right with God, we will always carry fear of other men. My tree friend has stood long enough to have seen probably all of the last century. He knows of nights with no car alarms.

Will our children? I think sin works just like those car alarms. As long as we fascinate ourselves with it, we never hear those car alarms. But in our lives there will come a point of awakening. We may return to the fireworks of life, but we will no longer be unaware of the stifling presence of sin.

I was approaching 30 years of age and having seen you once, know you have seen some age milestones where you too have probably thought back about how some things were great some things could be better and things I could change. I began attending a Wesleyan Church for that was what I knew but I was just attending, I still had lots of questions. It took a couple of years but I became Orthodox.

If you want to be serious about Christianity, start with these. There are decades/centuries/even millenia behind some of them.

Pray 7 times a day. Short Prayers,

IF you are agnostic, start where you are, Lord if you are there, reveal yourself to me. Amen.
or depending where you are: Lord Jesus, have mercy on me. Amen. or Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me. Amen. or Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Amen.

Pray only the prayer you can honestly pray. It can be when you wake up, before each meal, after each meal, before beginning any work, after completing any work. Before you go to bed but say ONLY the prayer you can believe.

If you have a Bible, read the Gospels only. Don't set a goal for an amount to read, just read it. For the beginner a couple of verses are all you will need. Start with Mark. Work your way through it slowly. Read it again if you must for understanding there is no hurry. EVERY time you read a commandment do this or don't do this. Write it down. Then put it into practice. Do not read John. Read Matthew, Mark, and Luke but leave John alone for now. In the ancient Christian Church, the Gospel of John was read only AFTER one was baptized into the Church. It is a Gospel for the insiders.

Try to do something good for others, maybe an hour a week. Tell no one. No one is to know of what you do.

If you have extra money, give it away.

During this time of exploration, don't get drunk, don't eat too much. On Wed and Fri eat less than usual.

Set aside some time each day, start with 5 min and work towards 15 where you sit in silence. Learn to be quiet and with yourself. As the thoughts come let them go by. Sit in silence. Many holy people have said that if you can't sit in silence, you should never speak because you will have nothing worthwhile to say. As the thoughts come, say God if you are there, help me understand this or if a thought comes of a person in need say, Lord if you are there help, or have mercy on xxx.

During this time of exploration, don't argue doctrine or theology with anyone, just listen. It is a great miracle to listen to others and be attentive to their presence and their needs. Don't argue about everything. Don't lie, be kind and good to everyone you meet, without exception, beginning with the ones under your roof and closest to you.

Find one person you can fully trust, maybe you have someone. Tell that person your thoughts, feelings, dreams, compulsions, fears. Hold back nothing.

Start going to church, Evansville has an Orthodox chuch. Go, sit/stand in the back. Don't pay attention to what anyone is doing. Listen to the prayers and maintain silence. I always offer to take anyone to an Orthodox Church for their first visit and I would extend that to you along with an offer of dinner afterwards to talk about the service or anything else that comes to mind. My treat, of course.

If you fail at any of these, say the simple prayer at the beginning. Lord if you are there, forgive or have mercy.

When the end of the day comes, examine all that happened that day. When you fall you get back up and you start over. Falling and getting back up is the Life of a Christian. Salvation is in getting back up. A wise priest once said, Our Lord lives and is encountered only in the now. The past and the future are the realms of demons, for in the past lives the demons of regret and in the future live the demons of anxiety. Christ only meets us RIGHT NOW.

Do NOT rush, do not hurry we have all the time in the world. Unless Jesus returns, and he is a merciful judge. The message of the Bible is God is a merciful judge and he will have mercy on whomever He wills and He wills to have mercy on all of us.

May God bless any endeavor and effort that you put forth to meet him and greet you.

Again don't hurry, this is not about emotion, its not about feeling, its about inviting an experience with God if he is there.

 

[45sRfun]

There is absolutely nothing you can do, nothing that will save you. If you truly accept Jesus as savior and follow him, that is all it takes. No other action is needed. Now, that salvation, that faith that has saved you is "evidenced" by your walk. Once you are saved you are a new creation in Christ; the old is gone....poof. Justification, just as if I never sinned. Sanctification is a life long process that brings you closer to holiness; although never fully realized since we are human and not perfect. It's a process. It's all about faith and the desire of follow Christ, to live the life of Christ.

You said something that needs further clarification. What do you mean by "blatantly" disobey?

I was trying to make a stronger contrast by using an extreme of someone who outright refuses to live a Christian life, perhaps continues to get drunk or fornicate, is not a saved person.

All one needs to be saved is faith, but faith includes repentance, and faith is exhibited in good works in obedience to God. God works all of this in us, so we cannot take credit for it.

 

[historian]