TN state park OC trouble

[samot]

and that's a reason to pull a gun on the guy? because you admittedly can't tell the difference between a pistol and an SBR?

+1000

 

[samot]

You WILL see the business end of Mr. Glock until we figure it out....

this is good too!! point gun in face ask questions later.. saftey not an issue, im a trained professional

 

[Denny347]

And in here lies the problem!! Not only do you have the authority to point a gun in someones face, or kick in thier front door, or crawl thru thier window... U get a RISE out of it. just like the rollers in TN. No big deal to you, after 8 hours your goin home!
My favorite part = (this happens all the time)

Cram it! What do you know what I get a "rise" from? I'm TRYING to enter this conversation from a LEO perspective. I do that because MOST here do NOT have access to such. I'm trying to help. No where did I say that the officers in the OP's article were right. I'm leaving my OPINION of that to myself. I am more concerned with playing devil's advocate and hoping to maybe contribute something. I guess I was wrong. But to say that I "get a rise" from doing the things you describe is juvenile. Our response to runs is many times determined by what the 911 caller tells the dispatch. We can respond to the same run 5 times (hypothetically) but have 5 very different responses based on what the 911 callers tells us. Man walking down the street with gun on side drinking a Coke. Man walking down the street with gun on side but drawing it and pointing it. Man with gun walking down street with gun on side and matches description of suspect in a robbery. Man walking down street with gun on side mumbling something about killing everyone at job. The real truth was the guy was minding his own business but the different callers might have either made up lies or misunderstood his actions/words. We have to respond accordingly. But to say that I get a stiffy by pointing my pistol at someone is stupid. I had to do just that today when I caught a home robbery suspect (by myself) as he was running from the house. I felt many things but "getting a rise" was NOT one of them. Next time you want to say something you think is profound....DON'T. Your only exposing your own ignorance.

 

[Denny347]

this is good too!! point gun in face ask questions later.. saftey not an issue, im a trained professional

Witness calls 911 saying man breaking into house...what should I do when I find the suspect, Mr expert? How the hell am I supposed to know he lived there until I secure the scene?

 

[samot]

Talk about exposing your own ignorance!!!
telling people to "cram it" " name calling"
Denny take a deap breath... its called an open forum. key word OPEN..
& in the future when you want to give me negitive rep please refrain from calling me a D1ckhead, its just not nice

 

[samot]

Witness calls 911 saying man breaking into house...what should I do when I find the suspect,

not sure what you "should do " but you sure have told us all what your going to do!!!! To bad the 911 call was a prank from an 8 yr old kid

 

[Bill of Rights]

And in here lies the problem!! Not only do you have the authority to point a gun in someones face, or kick in thier front door, or crawl thru thier window... U get a RISE out of it. just like the rollers in TN. No big deal to you, after 8 hours your goin home!
My favorite part = (this happens all the time)

Hold on there. You make it sound like he enjoys using force against people who have done no wrong.. I am no mind reader, but from what I've gleaned from Denny, he is willing to use necessary force appropriately, just like the rest of us. Personally, I'm not crazy about the amount and types of authority allowed LEOs in our society, but if that level of authority is allowed, I can think of many, many people who would make me nervous in his role. He is not one of those people.

You're welcome to your opinion, but it strikes me very odd that you would call someone out about whom you make this accusation. It kinda reminds me of the anti-gun folks who forever accuse gun owners of being barely-controlled, violently homicidal maniacs. They make these accusations knowing full well we won't react violently to them... because they are untrue.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Denny347]

Talk about exposing your own ignorance!!!
telling people to "cram it" " name calling"
Denny take a deap breath... its called an open forum. key word OPEN..
& in the future when you want to give me negitive rep please refrain from calling me a D1ckhead, its just not nice

When you insult me directly by saying I am some sort of pervert that gets wood when I am pointing my pistol at them IS an ignorant statement and YOU made it. So yeah...cram it!!! I work my rear off everyday doing a good job, being fair, and serving my community as any law abiding citizen living in my community would want to me to. We do not see eye to eye but you stooped to the personal attack.

 

[Roadie]

Sheesh, and I got an "Infraction" just for calling someone "Sir Massengil"

What's up with all the tension here lately? Post Holiday stress perhaps?

 

[ATM]

Cram it!

 

[Bill of Rights]

and that's a reason to pull a gun on the guy? because you admittedly can't tell the difference between a pistol and an SBR?

You come across just like the brady people and gun grabbers back to 1936, that there are features on guns that automatically make them more dangerous. Are you worried that the AK pistol is a "cop killer"? Would you draw on a guy doing nothing more than carrying a Super Redhawk in a state park? Maybe so. As bad as South Bend is, I guess I'm fortunate not to live in Indianapolis.

Guys, we're sitting in the comfort of our own homes, looking at well-lit photos of two guns. We have all the time in the world to examine them and no possibility of a threat from their owners. This is quite a different situation than when you see someone carrying an AK-pattern firearm and you see it very quickly.

Additionally, from what I read, Denny is saying not that he thinks either the AK pistol or the AK SBR is a "cop killer" or is more dangerous than the other, just that federal law makes one lawful in Indiana (as opposed to some other states) and the other, unless properly papered, unlawful anywhere in the country. Until he knows which is which and if all the hoops have been jumped through correctly, he is charged with enforcing the law. If you don't like that fact, contact your legislators. He doesn't make the law, it's just his profession to make sure it's followed to the best of his ability.

I am not a LEO apologist. Denny and several other officers have conversed with me repeatedly on different aspects of law enforcement at my request, and in every case, they have been civil, polite, and informative. If I thought the actions of an officer were out of line based on a report, I did not and do not hesitate to point out that fact, but it's not "you cops", it's "that cop". For those who make the "thin blue line" or "blue wall of silence" accusations, let me dispel those: I am aware in my own community of officers who have been suspended or even fired from the PD for such things as OWI, perjury, and unlawfully obtaining and using illicit narcotics. In two of those cases, other officers from their own departments busted them. In the third, the perjury case, the officer not only lost his job, he also went to state prison as a convicted felon. He did so because he went to his CLEO and admitted his crime when no one else would ever have known about it... He did this knowing what the penalty was going to be, and did it anyway.

Let's stop cracking on a man for doing the job we as a society pay him to do and start cracking on the legislators for writing worthless, ill-considered laws for him to enforce.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[esrice]

Everyone take a breather please. I'd like this thread to stay open if it can continue to be educational and informative.

 

[cce1302]

Guys, we're sitting in the comfort of our own homes, looking at well-lit photos of two guns. We have all the time in the world to examine them and no possibility of a threat from their owners. This is quite a different situation than when you see someone carrying an AK-pattern firearm and you see it very quickly.

Additionally, from what I read, Denny is saying not that he thinks either the AK pistol or the AK SBR is a "cop killer" or is more dangerous than the other, just that federal law makes one lawful in Indiana (as opposed to some other states) and the other, unless properly papered, unlawful anywhere in the country. Until he knows which is which and if all the hoops have been jumped through correctly, he is charged with enforcing the law. If you don't like that fact, contact your legislators. He doesn't make the law, it's just his profession to make sure it's followed to the best of his ability.

I am not a LEO apologist. Denny and several other officers have conversed with me repeatedly on different aspects of law enforcement at my request, and in every case, they have been civil, polite, and informative. If I thought the actions of an officer were out of line based on a report, I did not and do not hesitate to point out that fact, but it's not "you cops", it's "that cop". For those who make the "thin blue line" or "blue wall of silence" accusations, let me dispel those: I am aware in my own community of officers who have been suspended or even fired from the PD for such things as OWI, perjury, and unlawfully obtaining and using illicit narcotics. In two of those cases, other officers from their own departments busted them. In the third, the perjury case, the officer not only lost his job, he also went to state prison as a convicted felon. He did so because he went to his CLEO and admitted his crime when no one else would ever have known about it... He did this knowing what the penalty was going to be, and did it anyway.

Let's stop cracking on a man for doing the job we as a society pay him to do and start cracking on the legislators for writing worthless, ill-considered laws for him to enforce.

Blessings,
Bill

Then why defend those who drew on a guy for nothing other than walking with a scary looking gun?

 

[Denny347]

 

[groovatron]

Hey Denny, it's cool. Alot of us out here respect what you do everyday for the people of your community. I like to hear the prespective of LE. It's very easy for citizens to judge a single controversial encounter with LE, but sometimes they don't realize the broader scope of things. You are faced with questionable situations everyday and have to handle them as fair and efficiently as possible. Anyway, thanks for your service!

Now back to the OP. There is simply not enough information on this story for us to take it this far. This thread is overflowing with speculation. Let's see what we can dig up and learn some more about the situation.

 

[samot]

When you insult me directly by saying I am some sort of pervert that gets wood when I am pointing my pistol at them IS an ignorant statement and YOU made it. So yeah...cram it!!! We do not see eye to eye but you stooped to the personal attack.

I said absolutly no such thing, you took it that way, as well as called me profanitys in the negative rep you sent. U r the one being unprofessional.
When i said get a rise, i was referring to it in an adrinaline type situation.
have a good day

 

[antsi]

I keep keep going back and forth on this one.

I do think the guy was being intentionally provocative. But that is often the case with any kind of rights. If "free speech" is going to be a meaningful concept, it has to apply to speech that I find offensive or troubling. If the freedom to protest against the government means anything, it has to include protesting against popular as well as unpopular government actions. Freedom of the press is meaningless unless it includes the freedom to print idiotic, offensive, moronic publications.

I kind of put this dude in the same category. He's choosing to carry in a way that he knows is going to make a lot of people uncomfortable. He doesn't seem to have any other motive or reason, other than the desire to make people uncomfortable. That doesn't make me like the guy, or want to invite him over to my house for dinner. But I do think he has the right to carry as long as he does so lawfully, and if that right is going to mean anything, it has to apply to moron-provocative-irritating carry as well as discreet well-mannered carry.

 

[Agent 007]

.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Then why defend those who drew on a guy for nothing other than walking with a scary looking gun?

I do not, nor do I see... well, anyone, at least in this thread, doing so. To say that someone engaging in possibly unlawful conduct, i.e. entering a home by force should be stopped by forcible action up to but not including deadly force (e.g. drawing but not firing) is not the same as drawing on someone solely because he was walking with a firearm someone thought was "scary".

Based on what info I have seen, it would seem to me that IF this happened in IN, rather than TN, the officer should have at most asked to see his LTCH, confirmed it valid, and wished the guy a nice day.

Based on previous posts, that's the kind of response I'd expect to see from most of our LEOs on INGO. Not all, of course, and not even those I'm thinking of, if something else set off their spidey sense.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Beau]

How were the authorities involved supposed to know that this guy was no threat?

How were they supposed to know that the pistol he was carrying WAS legal or even a pistol for that matter? Without measuring the barrel and verifying there was no stock I would think it was a rifle which is not legal in that park evidently.

The look of that particular pistol combined with those clothes caused the authorities to profile this man and subject him to further investigations.

He wasn't charged. He was detained until all his actions were deemed legal. He proved he had a carry permit and the BATFE was called to verify the gun was registered as a pistol (I assume it said they were called but didn't say what for). That is exactly what I would expect. Now those rangers know that his actions were legal they probably won't stop him again there. The next officer he runs into that doesn't know the mans gun is a registered pistol will probably detain him again and do it all over. I didn't know the definition of an SBR vs Ak 47 pistol until researching it after this thread was started.

Everyone is ok with profiling as long as it isn't a group that they are a part of.

I think it would suck to have a gun pulled on you for doing something completely legal but I can also understand why it happens.

Here's the problem/s.
1) This was not the first time he had carried in that park on that trail. I do not know if he had carried his AK pistol before.

2) He was stopped by an officer who checked him out and then sent him on his way.

3) The second officer, after being notified by the first of the situation, decided to stop him again. This time at gun point. I might also add that he had walked and additional 1+ mile before the second officer stopped him.

4) The second officer that stopped him at gun point had spoke with this individual before. He knew that he was licensed to carry. He also knew that he had carried in the park before.

5) I can think of no reason why a detainment should take 2 1/2 hours.

How were the authorities involved supposed to know that this guy was no threat?

How is anyone supposed to know that anyone is not a threat? How does stopping and detaining someone for 2 1/2 hours make someone not a threat. How does stopping someone period make them not a threat? I'll answer for you. It doesn't. A person will do what a person has the desire to do. Just because someone is stopped by LE does not mean that they do/do not have the desire to commit a crime. All it does is verify that their current actions are legal.

Amazing that you know exactly what the person's actions were prior to the officers approaching that may have lead them to reasonably fear for their safety. I didn't realize that you were there, and know every detail of what happened.

Do you use Krylon orange paint for your guns, or some other brand?

No but we do have his version of what happened. You can read it on opencarry.org