Thumb safeties

[the1kidd03]

I like Tex, he's an avid outdoorsman who also likes to train and "prep".

To me, he just made the classic case against SERPAs. Didn't lay his finger on it the it was desgined and poked it when it wouldn't come up. Bang! He's very lucky not to do more damage than he did.

Agreed. I've seen FAR worse damage from MUCH smaller bullets. Very lucky

 

[Gabriel]

Personally, I don't find a thumb safety a hinderance if you train it into yourself.

I can't argue with that. I've always been issued Glocks. I won't buy a handgun with a thumb safety simply because I haven't trained with one.

 

[rhino]

Ok. I got that. But that's not what I'm talking about. What is the feeling about thumb safetys and when is the proper time to disengage them during the draw. Is there a consensus?

Probably no consensus. In fact, I'd say that a lot of people who have been shooting 1911s for a while don't really know when they press the safety down on a draw. They may believe they are doing it at some point during the presentation, but that doesn't mean it really happens there. It's easier to know when you put it back "on."

My intent and opinion is that it goes "off" as soon as you orient your muzzle toward your threat/target. It goes back on before you orient the muzzle toward the opening of the holster.

In addition to that, if I am moving from one place to another and I know for sure I won't be shooting at anything along the way, I usually find myself just putting the safety "on." It's not necessary, but I catch myself doing it. Most of the time I am shooting when I am moving or getting ready to shoot (not much distance), so the safety remains "off."

 

[armedindy]

i remove the safety once at position 2..i.e. the gun it angled down slightyl and resting on the side of my right pectoral, i will switch off the safety, because i can now safely fire from this position and may even need to do so...so off goes the safety...and now i am able to shoot from along my pectoral all the way as i go out to fully extending my arm

 

[critter592]

Thanks for the input. Here's really why I'm asking and why I don't already know. My experience has been with a HK USPc without a TS. My elder step-daughter has surprisingly taken more interest in shooting and wants to work towards carrying for self defense. I am gathering info on several handguns for her to try out and see what she feels comfortable with. Many of these come with TS as standard. So, if she picks one I need to have a sense of where to go with her training. If it's installed she needs to train with it. I don't feel comfortable with having her just leave the safety off. That could get her killed if the safety reengaged and she spent the rest of her life trying to figure out why her gun won't fire. I've trained skydivers. I've seen how the mind works under life threatening stress. Training is key. Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

 

[rhino]

Good for you. Exploring these issues before being involved in a tense social situation is much better than learning the hard way!

With respect to a 1911, the grip we teach involves keeping the thumb of the firing hand on top of the thumb saftey all of the time. This has multiple purposes, but among them is that it prevents the thumb safety from being unintentionally engaged durin recoil.

Thanks for the input. Here's really why I'm asking and why I don't already know. My experience has been with a HK USPc without a TS. My elder step-daughter has surprisingly taken more interest in shooting and wants to work towards carrying for self defense. I am gathering info on several handguns for her to try out and see what she feels comfortable with. Many of these come with TS as standard. So, if she picks one I need to have a sense of where to go with her training. If it's installed she needs to train with it. I don't feel comfortable with having her just leave the safety off. That could get her killed if the safety reengaged and she spent the rest of her life trying to figure out why her gun won't fire. I've trained skydivers. I've seen how the mind works under life threatening stress. Training is key. Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

 

[bwframe]

We gotz skillz!

I never had any problems whoopin ya

That's why you still carry a 1911 for SD, right?

 

[Standby]

Sounds like the OP is referring to the Tex Grebner video.

I take all of this out of the equation by not carrying a gun with a manual thumb safety.

What he said.

 

[HICKMAN]

That's why you still carry a 1911 for SD, right?

nope, and you know I never will

 

[HardTargetFirearms]

The thumb safety comes off as the gun comes out of the holster. Think about it tactically. If you draw the weapon to shoot, more than likely the bad guy is inside of 20 feet. A human male can close that distance in less than 2 seconds. That meas there is a good chance you will be firing at the bad guy with close-retention shooting if he is advancing towards you. And the only way you will do that is with a safety off. If you get in the habit of moving that safety off too late in the draw stroke, it could cost you your life in a real gunfight.

As for TS in general...we don't like them. We love the 1911 for what it is...a legend. It's a workhorse and it's a great gun. But the reality is that a TS is another complicating factor at a time when you want SIMPLE. When fight/flight hits, fine motor skills go to hell. If all you have to do is get the gun out and pull the trigger, there is less chance of operatior error. And that improves your survivability.

 

[cyprant]

Thanks for the input. Here's really why I'm asking and why I don't already know. My experience has been with a HK USPc without a TS. My elder step-daughter has surprisingly taken more interest in shooting and wants to work towards carrying for self defense. I am gathering info on several handguns for her to try out and see what she feels comfortable with. Many of these come with TS as standard. So, if she picks one I need to have a sense of where to go with her training. If it's installed she needs to train with it. I don't feel comfortable with having her just leave the safety off. That could get her killed if the safety reengaged and she spent the rest of her life trying to figure out why her gun won't fire. I've trained skydivers. I've seen how the mind works under life threatening stress. Training is key. Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

With all due respect, have you thought about getting her some training from a pro? There are many reasons behind this. I personally have started teaching my toddler about gun safety (eddie eagle) and I plan to teach her how to shoot at paper and steel when the time comes, but when it comes to training for a self defence situation, I think finding a GOOD teacher is invaluable. I have heard that Massad Ayoob will testify on prior students behalf if they are ever involved in a SD shooting. There are also some great teachers on this forum that I have met through club matches that I am excited to train with. Search David Rose and/or Coach
-just a thought-
Back to regularly scheduled programming...

 

[critter592]

Thanks for the due respect. Yes.

 

[HardTargetFirearms]

With all due respect, have you thought about getting her some training from a pro? There are many reasons behind this. I personally have started teaching my toddler about gun safety (eddie eagle) and I plan to teach her how to shoot at paper and steel when the time comes, but when it comes to training for a self defence situation, I think finding a GOOD teacher is invaluable. I have heard that Massad Ayoob will testify on prior students behalf if they are ever involved in a SD shooting. There are also some great teachers on this forum that I have met through club matches that I am excited to train with. Search David Rose and/or Coach
-just a thought-
Back to regularly scheduled programming...

Two scenarios here:

1) She is hugely passionate about training and just soaks it up like a sponge. She commits to training regularly with a gun. If that happens, get her her a Glock, likely in 9mm for the sake of recoil. No safety to worry about. It's point and shoot...and to your point, stress is tough. Less to think about = higher probability of her surviving. But semi-autos are semi-autos. She will need to learn more if she gets one.

2) She is not regular in her practice. Get her a revolver. She won't like to shoot as much (in all probability), but its the easiest gun to shoot. Just keep pulling the trigger.

"There is an inverse correlation between the complexity of a weapon and the IQ of its operator". Not my line - but I love it.

That's our advice - and it's based on a LOT of experience.

 

[foszoe]

I practice having the thumb safety flipped off before the support hand meets the gun.
But that is what I am used to. Had thumb safeties for 20+ years.

One thing to remember is a thumb safety is an option. There is nothing that says you can't flip it off ahead of time. For example, driving on interstate, sitting in someone's home, my safety is on. Walking in a dimly lit area or getting gas late at night, I will flip it off through my shirt leaving the gun in the holster.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

One thing to remember is a thumb safety is an option. There is nothing that says you can't flip it off ahead of time. For example, driving on interstate, sitting in someone's home, my safety is on. Walking in a dimly lit area or getting gas late at night, I will flip it off through my shirt leaving the gun in the holster.

What type of pistol do you carry?

 

[foszoe]

What type of pistol do you carry?

Beretta usually

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Beretta usually

Oh ok. Hell I would never carry that on safe being DA/SA. My Taurus 92 is usually cocked and locked.

 

[the1kidd03]

Oh ok. Hell I would never carry that on safe being DA/SA.

What is your reasoning for this? I mean, what difference does the DA/SA make in your opinion that would alter whether you use the safety or not?

 

[Titanium_Frost]

What is your reasoning for this? I mean, what difference does the DA/SA make in your opinion that would alter whether you use the safety or not?

DA is considered 'safe enough' from a trigger pull standpoint. Consider DAO pistols with no safeties and revolvers.

SAO pistols such as 1911s, or cocked and locked pistols like my Taurus PT92, CZ75 etc should be carried on 'safe' because of their short, light trigger pull.

 

[JettaKnight]

Titanium Frost is right. I don't have and SAO pistols for carry so I never carry with the safety on. Why?
1. Not necessary - backstrap safety, long & heavy trigger pull, etc.
2. Some pistols have them some don't - I don't want to have to think about that when I have to think about an attacker.
3. Some pistols aren't ambidextrous, and I'm left handed.
4. With my small hands I can't work most safeties quickly with one hand.
5. Not all safety switches work the same way.

I might set the safety when I take my rig off at night.