This time Trayvon is a 19 year old woman

[HeadlessRoland]

Dupe of my dupe of another dupe of yet another dupe.

 

[MrJewbagel]

I'm probably going to catch a lot of **** for this but what's wrong with not going near the door and calling police to let them deal with it? If she comes through the door then that's a different story.

Oh that's right its Detroit... (What police?)

Still should have waited for a time where he was actually in fear for his life.

Of course, we don't know anything about the man yet. Maybe his house has been broken into multiple times and he finally decided to purchase a gun to defend it. Maybe he was jumpy because he thought there was an actual threat outside his door and that's how he "accidentally" fired the shotgun.

The speculation before all of the facts come to light is what blows these kind of things out of proportion.

 

[miguel]

IANAL, but I think he's in for trouble if the door was locked and she didn't attempt to force entry in a way that left evidence.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Dupe of my dupe of another dupe of yet another dupe.

Link?

 

[sharkey]

Prosecutor in the case pointed Wafer's shotgun at the jury today in court, with finger on the trigger.

Renisha McBride | Theodore Wafer | End-of-Day #8 Wrap-Up

 

[rgrimm01]

I can see this being an accident coupled with poor mechanics. The guy is awakened by a bone jarring banging on the door (any noise is amplified at 0400). Then someone is wrapping on the backdoor. Countless evening news broadcasts of murders, robberies, rapes and home invasions are replaying in his mind as now the racket is at the front door. He grabs his shotgun, opens the door, squinting in hope of picking out an image in which he can make sense. He is startled by an image coming into the light cast from the house and through the door and because he has his finger on the trigger (I have not read that anywhere)...BANG or rather... Boooom.

Complete speculation, but I can see how that could happen. As mentioned by others, I do not know why he would put himself in a more precarious position by opening the door to an unknown number of people with unknown intentions wrapping at the door.

Is that murder? Is that manslaughter? Is it justifiable through extenuating circumstances? It will be interesting to see how this plays out. This might be a case that jury selection could be huge.

 

[PRasko]

So wait, his screen door was closed and locked, but his "door" door was open at 4 am?....in Detroit? Or did he open it to confront her?

Was she shot in the back of the head? Or the face? I'm reading conflicting stories on this.

If he opened his door and confronted her, I don't see this as self defense. He instigated the confrontation, when he could have just as easily called the police and just kept his door shut.

If he shot her in the "back" of the head. He's done for.

 

[STEEL CORE]

Its Detroit my hometown, at 4 AM, your awakened by loud poundings on your doors, you pick up your 12 ga, who knows where your cell phone is. Gun is loaded, safety off, you look out the front screen door and are confronted by person(s) unknown...................... BOOM!

Involuntary Manslaughter, a terrible accident, a young life taken.

Closing arguments this morning, then jury deliberations.
Unfortunatly dudes going to wish he had racked another shell in the Mossburg, and held it under his chin, after he gets sent to Jackson.

Beef chunks in gravy, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, two lives lost now.

Not much left to burn, if civil unrest follows an aquittal.

From Todays DETROIT Free Press

http://www.freep.com/article/20140806/NEWS02/308060061

 

[churchmouse]

I just caught up on this.
A drunken 19 year old is beating down this mans doors in the early dark A.M. hours. He responds as many would in Detroit. This will not end well for him.

Another situation that points out that if you are going to own a gun....learn how to properly use it. Know the law. Respond accordingly.
Easy to say.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

Assistant Prosecutor Aritha Siringas demonstrated accidents happen when one does not understand or use proper muzzle discipline or trigger discipline. She may well have sealed the accidental shooting plea by the defendant. We'll see.

 

[LP1]

I just caught up on this.
A drunken 19 year old is beating down this mans doors in the early dark A.M. hours. He responds as many would in Detroit. This will not end well for him.

Another situation that points out that if you are going to own a gun....learn how to properly use it. Know the law. Respond accordingly.
Easy to say.

Sad but true.

It's easy to second-guess how someone reacts under extreme stress. I don't know if I could find my cell phone in that situation, and it's always on the nightstand next to the bed. In hindsight, opening the door was not a good move, but it's human nature.

An important lesson is to not get drunk and go out in public. This is not an issue for me, but apparently is for some folks. (Didn't a Ball State student get killed by police under similar circumstances a couple of years ago? - drunk and pounding on a stranger's door at 3am)

I feel badly for everyone involved, but it sounds like self-defense to me.

 

[churchmouse]

Sad but true.

It's easy to second-guess how someone reacts under extreme stress. I don't know if I could find my cell phone in that situation, and it's always on the nightstand next to the bed. In hindsight, opening the door was not a good move, but it's human nature.

An important lesson is to not get drunk and go out in public. This is not an issue for me, but apparently is for some folks. (Didn't a Ball State student get killed by police under similar circumstances a couple of years ago? - drunk and pounding on a stranger's door at 3am)

I feel badly for everyone involved, but it sounds like self-defense to me.[/QUOTE

I understand how all this could have come down. I/we have been torn from sleep more than a few times by horrendous noises/gun fire/knocks on the door.
Fortunately we have given this enough thought and time to respond properly. Always armed but at the ready. 1st thing picked up is always the flashlight. Gives you a second to gather yourself up and get on the move.
Be ready and have a base plan. Even with a plan things are not always as they seem. Be ready but do not over react. Again, easy to say.

 

[Bravo-4-2]

As a matter of law, this incident, and the one involving Trayvon Martin, are not similar. At trial, the case will turn on whether it is believed that the homeowner reasonably believed that their life was in danger and if the threat to their life was credible. If a jury is convinced that the homeowner truly thought their life was in imminent danger, it is likely they will be ok. What little info we have makes offering an informed opinion difficult but, given what little is available, I suspect the homeowner would prevail at trial.

 

[churchmouse]

As a matter of law, this incident, and the one involving Trayvon Martin, are not similar. At trial, the case will turn on whether it is believed that the homeowner reasonably believed that their life was in danger and if the threat to their life was credible. If a jury is convinced that the homeowner truly thought their life was in imminent danger, it is likely they will be ok. What little info we have makes offering an informed opinion difficult but, given what little is available, I suspect the homeowner would prevail at trial.

Hopefully this will be the case.
Freaked out drunken (drugs???) teens beating on doors at that hour in that city is a recipe for bad endings.

 

[Cygnus]

Bad bad shoot. This guy deserves whatever he gets. Stay inside fire if they breach ( your state laws many vary). I don't buy him being so scared he opened the door. Really? Also stating that he didn't know it was loaded. Really? Are people here defending this dumbass? Really? I do think he is remorsful after finding out she was no threat but that doesn't excuse unforgivable violations of responsable gun ownership.
By the way this happened in a suburb. One I am soemwhat familiar with. The cops would actually show,not like current Detroit proper. So again dumbass making it harder for the rest of us......


Not that the woman was an angel but to be killed. Kinda reminds me of the cops shooting the former college football player in Florida. It was after a car accident too. Not sure if he was hammered or not.

 

[Jack Burton]

It's pretty hard to claim "self-defense" and "accident" at the same time.

I read the articles. There may be more to the story, but based upon what I have read so far, I don't see enough to justify the shooting.

Clairfying the "A" word that is generally best not to use in a self defense shooting but not necessarly a deal breaker if you have a good lawyer.

The prosecution also sought to have a “false exculpatory statement” instruction given to the jury. A false exculpatory statement is a kind of consciousness of guilt statement, in which the jury is instructed that a defendant lying in an effort to escape criminal liability can be seen to have done so because of “consciousness of guilt”—that is, not only does the prosecution believe the defendant is guilty, even the defendant believed the defendant was guilty.
The foundation for the prosecution’s request was Wafer’s “accident” language in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. Strictly speaking an accident is a non-intentional act, and self-defense is an intentional act, and one can not have both.
Siringas is quite right, when those terms are used in their narrow legal contexts. Had Wafer raised a legal defense of “accident” he would likely have been denied the legal defense of “self-defense,” and vice versa. Siringas was trying to claim that Wafer had given two separate, inherently inconsistent theories of the case.
But Wafer was not using “accident” in the narrow legal meaning of the word, but using it as a lay person typically does—and in that usage “accident” can mean a variety of things, including not deliberate or thought out, or an act of reflex, none of which are inconsistent with self-defense.
Carpenter, naturally, argued that there was no inherent inconsistency in Wafer’s defense, if one allows for the normal, broader scope with which the term “accident” is used by non-lawyers.

Renisha McBride | Theodore Wafer | End-of-Day #8 Wrap-Up

and

Renisha McBride | Theodore Wafer | Defendant takes the stand

Closing arguments...

Renisha McBride | Theodore Wafer | Closing Arguments

 

[Jack Burton]

There was also no evidence of forced entry and he shot through a closed, locked door....apparently having opened the inner door. Is knocking, banging or trying a door knob "breaking in"?

Now...under Michigan law? I don't know, but I would certainly not take a life under the circumstances as reported.

There are more facts than what the media is explaining as noted in the llinks I provided.

 

[STEEL CORE]

Thanks Jack, day two of deliberation begins.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Guilty as charged.

Detroit porch shooting: Homeowner convicted of 2nd-degree murder - Chicago Tribune

Alert the INGOtarians, one's house is not a free fire zone.

It's pretty hard to claim "self-defense" and "accident" at the same time.

I read the articles. There may be more to the story, but based upon what I have read so far, I don't see enough to justify the shooting.

A strong state's case without question.

 

[PRasko]

Guilty as charged.

Detroit porch shooting: Homeowner convicted of 2nd-degree murder - Chicago Tribune

Alert the INGOtarians, OUTSIDE one's house is not a free fire zone.



A strong state's case without question.

Fixed?

-edit-

From the link above.

To convict Wafer of second-degree murder, the jury must have found that he meant to kill or cause great bodily harm, or knowingly created a situation that could result in death or bodily harm.

What I bolded is what got him. He instigated the confrontation when he was secure in his home.