This is going to pi$$ off a lot of people, but

[Compuvette]

This is the goal. The biggest problem we face in getting there is that too many sheep see armed civilians as the threat to be handled, not the solution to be embraced. I think that within 5 years, we will see either this, or we will see a complete police state. It could go either way.

Serious question time. What is the goal of the OC movement? If the statement you are making is true, don't we stand to loose much more than we can gain?

I just got back from Fort Wayne with my family. Went to Fort Wayne Pediatrics with a sick kid, the pharmacy, Chipotle, and drove through McD's. Armed the whoe time (CC) with not a second glance of course. Heck, I was carrying a Colt 1911 with two spare mags. I did not consider myself under-armed. Nor was I uncomfortable.

I'd say the state of gun rights are pretty darn good right now. With my two licenses (Indiana and Utah) I can carry in most states and do not feel overly bourdoned by gun laws. With the exception of the NFA paperwork crap, I can walk into a gun store and buy whatever I can afford and walk out with it.

So, here in Indiana, what are we really trying to gain? Illinois and Cali I totally understand. Any state that still has some form of an AWB or lack of decent carry laws I also understand. But in Indiana?

 

[cbseniour]

To me the whole situation can be summed up in the idea that we must preserve the rights we still have be it gun rights or freedom of speech and religion. Every time the libs get a new law through that limits any of our rights we are that much closer to loosing the bill of rights and constitution. Nancy Pelosi has talked openly about limiting the first amendment by amending it so that not everyone could participate in the political debate.
We must stand up for each of our God given and Constitutionally protected rights every day.

 

[JetGirl]

I was carrying a Colt 1911 with two spare mags.

I knew I liked that kid ^.

 

[Compuvette]

To me the whole situation can be summed up in the idea that we must preserve the rights we still have be it gun rights or freedom of speech and religion. Every time the libs get a new law through that limits any of our rights we are that much closer to loosing the bill of rights and constitution. Nancy Pelosi has talked openly about limiting the first amendment by amending it so that not everyone could participate in the political debate.
We must stand up for each of our God given and Constitutionally protected rights every day.

Totally agree on a national level. I'm an NRA member and vote for strong 2A politicians. I just don't see a lot of problems with Indiana. Yea, the school thing is a PITA and I don't agree with a LTCH holder having to disarm. But, it appears to me that most of the "I got kicked out for OC" threads involve private property. Their land, their rules.

 

[Burnsy]

So, here in Indiana, what are we really trying to gain? Illinois and Cali I totally understand. Any state that still has some form of an AWB or lack of decent carry laws I also understand. But in Indiana?

Well for one, I subscribe to the deterent effect of an openly carried firearm, I do not like looking like a soft target. (lets not turn this into another OC debate about it please)

Secondly, I am glad that you can CC all that and still be comfortable but, I find OCing to be more comfortable than try to hide my full size gun let alone 2 extra mags. Could I hide my gun? Sure. Would "I" find it comfortable? No.

If OC goes away my preferred method of carry goes with it.

 

[mrortega]

After Frosty got hassled and escorted out of Mesker Park Zoo in Evansville last year I got indignant and decided to do some small thing. I reasoned that the more people who saw a normal appearing person going about his business OCing the more people there would be who might be on our side the next time some really crappy legislation comes down the road. "Hey, I saw a guy carrying a pistol into Thortons, McDs, etc and there was no problem. How come Nancy, Harry, Barack, etc. are demonizing people like him? Maybe they'll come after something I like to do next. Besides with the Subway robberies in Evansville and the bank robberies in Henderson, KY lately I feel kinda safe with people like him around."

I felt very uncomfortable OCing but forced myself to do it. (Do a search of "Operation Frosty" here and read all about it.) Now carrying a pistol isn't that much out of the ordinary but at this point I don't plan on carrying a long arm unless there is a hell of a riot or some other huge civil disturbance (a result of the big one on the New Madrid fault?) Anyway I felt I made my point to a lot of people. I CC most of the time now but will be OCing this Fall/Winter when I enter a restaurant and take my jacket off.

 

[actaeon277]

So Ortega, where did you find the "normal" person?

 

[Compuvette]

Well for one, I subscribe to the deterent effect of an openly carried firearm, I do not like looking like a soft target. (lets not turn this into another OC debate about it please)

Secondly, I am glad that you can CC all that and still be comfortable but, I find OCing to be more comfortable than try to hide my full size gun let alone 2 extra mags. Could I hide my gun? Sure. Would "I" find it comfortable? No.

If OC goes away my preferred method of carry goes with it.

I guess I didn't get my major point across. My bad. I don't care if you OC, I just don't understand why there is discussion about OC of a long arm. Yes it's legal to do, but I see no practical reason to do it. This is not Iraq. Yes, I have thrown an AR in the truck, but I haven't slung one to go shopping, nor do I feel the need.

At this point the only real reason I can see is political activism and I just don't see society as a whole accepting that. I see it doing more harm than good from a "perception of the common man" standpoint.

Heck, I'm a gun owner and carrier and I'm saying "really?".

 

[Roadie]

Why dont we ban fat and ugly people from public too. They offend my sense of aesthetics. People with large tattoos are also "threatening" lets make them cover that up as well.

Hmm what other arbitrary things can we ban? Lets ban sagging in public and talking on your cell phone while walking too......

Add to the above the fact i sometimes OC, and I am screwed

 

[Compuvette]

Add to the above the fact i sometimes OC, and I am screwed

Yea, me too!

 

[Burnsy]

I guess I didn't get my major point across. My bad. I don't care if you OC, I just don't understand why there is discussion about OC of a long arm. Yes it's legal to do, but I see no practical reason to do it. This is not Iraq. Yes, I have thrown an AR in the truck, but I haven't slung one to go shopping, nor do I feel the need.

At this point the only real reason I can see is political activism and I just don't see society as a whole accepting that. I see it doing more harm than good from a "perception of the common man" standpoint.

Heck, I'm a gun owner and carrier and I'm saying "really?".

I understand your point, people don't usually carry a rifle every where on their back for self defence. I think for most the reason is that it is not practical, a hand gun is more convenient. BUT (<---started a sentence with but) if it becomes illegal to carry around a long gun....one step closer...

I think their reasoning in their activism OCing long guns is the same reason we see posts of people wanting to get together and have OC events with hand guns. A right not exercised...., wanting others to accept the sight of a gun as normal and nothing to be alarmed about etc etc.

You say this is isn't Iraq, thats true but the anti's like the say this isn't the old west which is also true, but you carry a gun and you know that that statement isn't a very valid argument .

I see no issue walking down a sidewalk with a long gun on ones back. Personally I would not attend a long gun OC event, mostly because I don't own a long gun, but shall not infringe is shall not infringe, it doesn't specify the type of arm.

 

[Compuvette]

I understand your point, people don't usually carry a rifle every where on their back for self defence. I think for most the reason is that it is not practical, a hand gun is more convenient. BUT (<---started a sentence with but) if it becomes illegal to carry around a long gun....one step closer...

I think their reasoning in their activism OCing long guns is the same reason we see posts of people wanting to get together and have OC events with hand guns. A right not exercised...., wanting others to accept the sight of a gun as normal and nothing to be alarmed about etc etc.

You say this is isn't Iraq, thats true but the anti's like the say this isn't the old west which is also true, but you carry a gun and you know that that statement isn't a very valid argument .

I see no issue walking down a sidewalk with a long gun on ones back. Personally I would not attend a long gun OC event, mostly because I don't own a long gun, but shall not infringe is shall not infringe, it doesn't specify the type of arm.

Understand what you are saying, but why would it ever become illegal? Is anybody pushing for it? Heck, almost everybody hunts dear up here in northern Indiana. Don't see a ban on open carrying a long gun here getting very far.

 

[Roadie]

I understand your point, people don't usually carry a rifle every where on their back for self defence. I think for most the reason is that it is not practical, a hand gun is more convenient. BUT (<---started a sentence with but) if it becomes illegal to carry around a long gun....one step closer...

I think their reasoning in their activism OCing long guns is the same reason we see posts of people wanting to get together and have OC events with hand guns. A right not exercised...., wanting others to accept the sight of a gun as normal and nothing to be alarmed about etc etc.

You say this is isn't Iraq, thats true but the anti's like the say this isn't the old west which is also true, but you carry a gun and you know that that statement isn't a very valid argument .

I see no issue walking down a sidewalk with a long gun on ones back. Personally I would not attend a long gun OC event, mostly because I don't own a long gun, but shall not infringe is shall not infringe, it doesn't specify the type of arm.

Just one small point of order..

The "Wild West" thing is a myth. There was only ONE documented High Noon style shootout in history, and there were less gun deaths during the "Wild West" period, than in about a month in Chicago..

The Wild West as we know it is from fiction.. dime store novels, books, tv, movies and is not even remotely close to matching the truth..

Mode: OFF

 

[Burnsy]

Indiana is a wonderful state to live in and I am a proud Hoosier as I am sure you are as well, but unfortunatly there are many resident who would love to see guns banned and join our neighbor.

 

[Burnsy]

Just one small point of order..

The "Wild West" thing is a myth. There was only ONE documented High Noon style shootout in history, and there were less gun deaths during the "Wild West" period, than in about a month in Chicago..

The Wild West as we know it is from fiction.. dime store novels, books, tv, movies and is not even remotely close to matching the truth..

Mode: OFF

Here to learn

 

[Roadie]

Here to learn

Awesome attitude!

I love throwing out the Wild West facts when an "anti" brings it up.. it usually illicits a blank stare or a stammering "but.. but.. but"

 

[Compuvette]

Just one small point of order..

The "Wild West" thing is a myth. There was only ONE documented High Noon style shootout in history, and there were less gun deaths during the "Wild West" period, than in about a month in Chicago..

The Wild West as we know it is from fiction.. dime store novels, books, tv, movies and is not even remotely close to matching the truth..

Mode: OFF

Thanks for the info. Can I assume the big shoot out would have been in Tombstone?

 

[Roadie]

Thanks for the info. Can I assume the big shoot out would have been in Tombstone?

That was the "big" shootout, yes, but the only "High Noon" style, two guys meeting n the street style shootout, as I understand it, was Wild Bill Hickock and Dave Tutt..

The Tombtone shootout still killed less men than a Saturday night in Chicago

 

[Compuvette]

That was the "big" shootout, yes, but the only "High Noon" style, two guys meeting n the street style shootout, as I understand it, was Wild Bill Hickock and Dave Tutt..

The Tombtone shootout still killed less men than a Saturday night in Chicago

Gotcha. Thanks mucho.

Very true about Chicago. It's a freaking combat zone.

 

[.45 Dave]

I think where the idea of presenting arms in modern society became taboo is when we, as a society, erroneously came to believe that "modern" meant "civilized". Weapons are associated with animal instinct in modern thinking, therefore, any one who carries a weapon must be a backward sort of human. The norm gradually became non-armed (after all, non-armed is peaceful, armed is aggressive), so anyone who carries is immediately suspect as someone who is not normal and potentially dangerous, thus someone to be seen with wariness. If suspect, then perhaps criminal in intent, so that finally, the societal conclusion became such that one carrying a weapon was a criminal, if not actual, then at least in intent. That's where we are today.

And despite many movies (which are said to influence our thinking, but apparently not where weapons are concerned) that show the good guys employing weapons to save the day, that attitude does not spill over into modern daily life.

It is a strange dichotomy (one could say schizophrenia) that inflicts society that applauds the armed action hero of the movies but deplores the wearer of a gun in real life; who applauds the killing of Osama Bin Laden but worries about the nicely dressed guy who OCs a gun into the 7 Eleven; a society that wants to see justice triumph, but places such restrictions on the average person so that justice is difficult to achieve and might fail altogether; or a society that allows and applauds 19 year olds to serve under fire in foreign lands but who are not allowed to drink in their native country or wear arms while dressed in army fatigues.)

In short, society is a place where the inmates are running the asylum in my opinion. It is very confused and inconsistent in its thinking.

Where we can make inroads is showing that not only are we responsible in our having a weapon, but understanding and polite and logical when confronted about our weapon. Striking back emotionally will lose more battles than simply explaining why we feel we need them to a potentially hostile populace; Better than exhibiting them in an "in your face way" as it is detailed in the OPs scenarios.