Things that draw attention....or should

[ThrottleJockey]

Maybe if you rode in the front seat of the squad car you would gain a different perspective.

Nope, but a typical half witted response to criticism of abuse of power.

 

[darrent]

Nope, but a typical half witted response to criticism of abuse of power.

Well, maybe it was a half *** attempted at being humorous. I realize your sensitive to this subject and probably don't see it as such.


How do you know if an officer stopped you because your vehicle headlamp is out versus you look suspicious and your headlamp is out?

What happens if the officer gets that feeling you are a bad apple and you have a headlamp out. Does that mean you cannot be stopped?

Please bestow your wisdom upon us...half witted people.


From my vantage point, your life would be simpler if you would just follow the traffic code. You did not get a year in jail for your first DWS offense (I would guess it was your third). I think a more important issue for you should be "what was my failure to conform said law." Or you could evaluate why so many people get warning and breaks and you seem not to. Could it be something with you in particular that makes officers want to not give you any slack?


Also, which part of I'm not a LEO anymore do you not understand. I have no "power" to abuse or obligation to defend anyone who wears a badge. However, I do have keen insight to various angles (pre-LEO, LEO, and post-LEO). If you look at some of my previous posts on this site, I do speak out when I think there are infringements upon personal liberties by LEOs (although I don't imply that all cops are crooked while doing so).

 

[mercop]

ThrottleJockey, because I post so much so often all over the place I am used to criticism. I can also tell when people have a bone to pick. The thing is that there were plenty of times that I turned a blind eye to a "citizen" that broke the letter of the law. My aim was always to follow the intent of the law and not the letter. I worked in a rather small cruddy area. Usually dealing with the same knuckleheads. We all lived/worked in the same "tank". You cannot stop anything in your tank, you can only manage it and make it more managable.

Can I ask what led to your suspended licence? Was it your fault? If it was your fault do you accept responsibility for it?

For those here that know me, and now I know some pretty well, they can tell you that I am not a us vs them type. The vast majority of my close friends are not police. The truth is that few men live up to the standard I set for myself and therefor cannot help make me a better man.

The OP was intended to provide citizens with some of what "cops know". Seems most took it for what it was.

My agency had a very liberal ride along policy. You came in, showed a valid state issued ID (one of the ways we keep our boot on the back of our citizens) and stated your reason for wanting to ride to the the duty officer and he gave you a go/nogo on the ride. You signed a waiver and an officer was called in to take you. It often became a problem because certain officers got groupies who wanted to ride with them all the time and become "friends". Plus some people just got addicted to it and/or were creepy to the point where they interfered with the officers duties. Many people go the sh*t scared out of them. My Mom (a retired police dispatcher) rode with me when she would visit, as my Dad did. She rode with me the night before I was involved in a fatal shooting.

I agree with the problem of the few paying for the many. My views on crime, punishment, immigration, child welfare, etc are much to extreme to be posted on an internet forum. Most of which people I meet would agree with in private.

If anyone wants to continue argueing feel free, I think the mods have been kind in letting this go. I would hope instead we may continue to discuss things as adults. I am always willing to answer questions. - George

 

[mammynun]

Unfortunately, many "laws" are decided/created from the bench by people appointed for life...

True, and that's why I despise judicial activism.

 

[elaw555]

Nope, but a typical half witted response to criticism of abuse of power.

You make good points, but you are making them to the wrong person in the wrong thread. You are the only one who has made this about "abuse of power" but it isn't. It is about finding those who break the law and punishing them as the law allows. Mercop isn't a politician who has any power over modifying speed limits, BAC limits, wether or not we are required to have insurance, etc. He is the cop who is paid to enforce the law. Nothing more.

I do have a question for you. You are driving and come to a red light. In the turn lane on your left is a bling-ed out car with four black teens in it and the two on the right side are staring at you as you sit there. On your right is an 80 year old grandma in a Toyota Prius not paying any attention to you.

Where do you think the likeliest threat will come from?

BTW my brother was arrested for operating a vehicle while intoxicated. He went to the car, plugged in his dead cell phone to call me to pick him up, turned the car on cause it was cold and turned on the radio. Cop arrested him for it. Was the cop within the law? Sure. Do I think THAT COP was a jerk. Sure. But I don't hold it against the profession.

And driving isn't a right, until it makes the 28th amendment. You don't get to break a law because you disagree with it.

 

[pinshooter45]

Why do you ask that Question?

Ok,

There are QUITE a few instances, but ill give you the most rescent.

Sat. Nov. 28th.

On the way home 2am ish.

Im on the way home from white castles and pull into my nieghborhood. All the sudden...flashing lights. I pull over.

I get out my liscense and registration. For the officer. (having not 1 clue what I did to get pulled over) I roll down my drivers side window, but he comes to the passenger. He eases up on me with his hand near his gun.

Him: Have any guns in the car?
Me: (wtf) Yes
Him: Where?
Me: On my hip
Him: License and registration please
Me: Ok, here it is. What did I do
Him: No answer. (calling in license)
Me: Did I do something wrong
Him: hold tight., where did you say your gun was.
Me: On my hip, do you need to see my LTCH sir
Him: yes, and dont make any sudden movements
Me: ok,
Him: where are you coming from? (while calling in LTCH)
Me: Getting something to eat.
Him: You have car insurance?
Me: Yes, my insurance card is right there on the seat.
Him: Whos it thru?
Me: Its right there on the seat.
Him: I said whos it thru.
Me: Progressive.
Him: Ok,
Me: What did I do?
Him: Nothing, have a nice night...

Thats somewhat sumed up...there where alot of pauses and wierd stares.

This is a mild profiling incident ill say compared to the past, but im sure my black truck with black tinted windows at 2am had nothing to do with me getting pulled over. Im all for checking out suspicious vehicles, but not just for the hell of it...If there are suspicious acts (slow driving, circling the block, speeding, lights off, etc. etc.) then no problem. I was 2 houses down mine and had done nothing of the sort.

The reason I call profiling in this situation is because the LEO asked me all these questions and responded to me (facial expressions etc.) as if I was the biggest liar on this side of the mississippi. He was also seemingly pissed when everything came back clean....hence him saying nothing an walking back to his cruiser.

Or, I guess I could talk about the time I got pulled over on 93rd and college on my birthday. I asked the officier if I had done anything wrong and his words were...you are in a suspicious vehicle :wtf:

I asked him why my vehicle was suspicious and he said because your in it. (not kidding) The two officers tore my car apart on the inside..(never asked me for consent to search) as I sat in the back of one of the LEO's cruiser in handcuffs....yes handcuffs. "For their safety"....Really dude?

Anyway, of course I was clean and they let me go into my apartment (which they followed me to until I parked).

Being 6'5" and black sometimes has its disadvantages guys...lets just call it what it is. Anyone who has ever met me knows how nice of a guy I am, including the people I have made deals with and shot with here (FNS).

The profiling dosent give me that opportunity to exert my friendliness before im already labled otherwise.

(Oh and I mentioned the being followed around walmart and being pulled over with more than one adult in my car on the way to a pacer game for a reason)

I feel for you It sounds like you were unfairly targeted, I personally have never had anything like that happen to me, but I lead a pretty boring life. I once listened to a radio talk show that had a lawyer on talking about situations simmalar to yours. it was many years ago but the one thing that stuck in my mind was he said to always ask in response to question from a LEO that seem out of line is "Why Do You Ask That Question?" Never had to do it but I always remeber it. And with all do respect to our LEO, I simply will never consent to a search of my vehicle, that way if I happen to be in violation of something I'm not aware of, I at least may be able to fight it on probable cause grounds.
And with respect to profiling, it is nothing more than using a list of life experiences to keeo everybody safe. Red Headed Irishmen did not fly planes into buildings, men who looked like they were of middle eastern heratage. I'm sure our LEO would be suspicious of a group of white guys slowly circling or looking suspicious in a predominatly black or Hispanic neighborhood as they would the reverse.

 

[mercop]

I was a cop. Now I am retired and come to Indy a few times a year to have BWframe pay me to beat him up.- George

 

[MTC]

The OP was intended to provide citizens with some of what "cops know". Seems most took it for what it was.

My views on crime, punishment, immigration, child welfare, etc are much to extreme to be posted on an internet forum. Most of which people I meet would agree with in private.

I know what you mean.

Where do you think the likeliest threat will come from?

THE thread topic. Anything a current or former LEO says or writes is very valuable to me, whether I agree with every point or not.

 

[360]

I have to say I would tend to side more with ThrottleJockey on this subject.

A headlight or tail light out does not not warrant a traffic stop. It's just a light. Maybe the person knows about it and is waiting for payday to buy a light? Maybe it happened on that particular trip and they don't know it's out yet?

The one thing that burns me up are the DWI checkpoints. What right do the police have to stop every car on the road because they are searching for drunken drivers? Even worse when they stop every blue car, or every other car, or every 5th car, or whatever they decide to pull over.

Some will argue if I have nothing to hide, I shouldn't mind, or it is good to get drunks off the road. I disagree. This takes policing to another level.

IMO, it's all about the money. The money to retain the officers, the money to offset the cases that don't have monetary penalties, and the money allotted to the budget each year.

And a group of people who resemble a legalized gang.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

Throttlejockey, have you heard about the "ride along" program that puts a police officer in the passenger seat of semis so that they can watch what the four-wheelers are doing (cutting off, turning in front of, etc.) to the CDL driver? Dashboard cam to back up what the driver and officer see for prosecution of the four-wheeler.

And yep, I agree to a certain extent that anything over 16,000 lbs. is more of an easy financial target for the state of Indiana compared to something smaller. With the way drivers used to mechanically not take care of their trucks enforcement was made tighter to try to alleviate some of the accidents taking place on the roads. And yes, I know that we don't do the same inspections of smaller vehicles in Indiana that would catch many headlights, taillights, bald tires, etc. For me, personally, I take my vehicles to a qualified mechanic when I get my oil changed and he gives my vehicle the once-over for any lights that are out, tire conditions, leaks, squeaks, whatever.

I understand quite a bit of your frustration with the issue of greater policing on CDL drivers because I have several O-T-R drivers in the past in my family and my step-father is a regional flatbed driver right now. He used to tag-team drive with my mother until she ran into some health problems and they bought a house to give her somewhere permanent to convalesce.

 

[bwframe]

I was a cop. Now I am retired and come to Indy a few times a year to have BWframe pay me to beat him up.- George

 

[Barry in IN]

Thanks to Mercop for this thought-provoking info.

Profiling by watching for obvious threats based on trends or experience may hurt some feelings, but it still works and I will accept a few hurt feelings.
If it helps me keep my kids alive, some hurt feelings don't matter much to me.

If we make the same connections time after time, it seems entirely reasonable to me to use it.

If I see a frying pan on the stove with fried pork chops in it, I will suspect it to be hot, and will treat it that way. Seems reasonable. When I get burned getting a pan from the cabinet, I'll start treating them with caution.

If I see three guys in a mall who remind me of the last three hundred mug shots I saw in the paper, it seems a reasonable urge to watch and/or avoid them. The Ted Bundys seem to be the exception, but when the mug shots start looking like that most of the time, I will watch them (too).

I once bought a cheap car that had damage from at least two seperate "accidents". I could tell that people sometimes avoided me on the road when driving that car because of the obvious damage. I didn't put the dents there, but that seemed entirely reasonable to me, and I probably do it now without noticing.
If I see a few wrecks caused by people driving pampered cars that look showroom new with Armor-All on the tires, I will pick those out to watch for.

When 95% of the terrorist attacks over 20+ years are caused by Swedish Lutherans, I will learn to spot them. Until then, I'll have to watch the common denominator.

Sorry to Muslims, dented car drivers, those who resemble mug shots, and frying pans, but if this seems to work, it seems to work.

 

[MTC]

...Swedish Lutherans...

 

[pinshooter45]

I have to say I would tend to side more with ThrottleJockey on this subject.

A headlight or tail light out does not not warrant a traffic stop. It's just a light. Maybe the person knows about it and is waiting for payday to buy a light? Maybe it happened on that particular trip and they don't know it's out yet?

The one thing that burns me up are the DWI checkpoints. What right do the police have to stop every car on the road because they are searching for drunken drivers? Even worse when they stop every blue car, or every other car, or every 5th car, or whatever they decide to pull over.

Some will argue if I have nothing to hide, I shouldn't mind, or it is good to get drunks off the road. I disagree. This takes policing to another level.

IMO, it's all about the money. The money to retain the officers, the money to offset the cases that don't have monetary penalties, and the money allotted to the budget each year.

And a group of people who resemble a legalized gang.

Your Right It is about the money, while I don't know how reliable the info I have is. I have been told that many of the DWI, and Seatbelt Checks have federal Money attached (our money really) so the police are forced to do these things or the feds black mail the states by withholding highway funds. Just like they did with the 55 speed limit. The Feds don't have jurisdiction over traffic laws but they get their way with the power of the purse!

 

[truegrit]

it also could mean the man has epilepsy so his wife drives!

 

[mercop]

The guy in the bank with the ski mask on may just be cold, or maybe he has a skin condition that he is embarrassed about, or maybe.....

I was on the gym today and a beater car passed me going the other way. All kinds of crap hanging from the rear view, male in passenger seat, both no seat belts, cracked windshield. Female driver looked "panicky". This car was ripe for the pickings. Oh yeah, I would also go out of my way to violate the rights of the passenger too by asking for ID. You know why, because the majority of people I have picked up for warrants were passengers in vehicles, not the drivers. Every traffic stop is a story waiting to be told. BTW I think in my career I think I made about a dozen stops for speeding. - George

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Well most of what I had to add has already been added by others. I do understand the intent of the OP, but that doesn't change anything. Just a bit more background info, I have an uncle that spent 30 years as an elected county sheriff in MN, a cousin that spent MANY years as the head of the FBI drug task force (until he died from drug and alcohol abuse) and a few other LEO family members and many friends in the field. I spent several years as a sheriffs explorer (boy scout police program) and even went through some training as an LEO before I started to see the big picture. Please do not think that I group all LEOs together as I know there are good and bad. I believe the difference to be in which powers they choose to utilize and which unlawful or borderline policies they choose to ignore. My apologies to anyone that may feel they were personally attacked, that was not my intent.

 

[darrent]

Your Right It is about the money, while I don't know how reliable the info I have is. I have been told that many of the DWI, and Seatbelt Checks have federal Money attached (our money really) so the police are forced to do these things or the feds black mail the states by withholding highway funds. Just like they did with the 55 speed limit. The Feds don't have jurisdiction over traffic laws but they get their way with the power of the purse!

The money for Operation Pullover comes from ICJI (ICJI: Home). There is plenty of information here if you want to track the source.

 

[Kick]

Props to mercop. I agree with you 110%. I just got a gun off the street because I followed a big guy in a pontiac sunfire long enough for him not to signal and me to stop him. (The state I work in is not a CC state and the guy was a gangbanger and a felon)

 

[elaw555]

Sorry to Muslims, dented car drivers, those who resemble mug shots, and frying pans, but if this seems to work, it seems to work.

What about the pork chops. The man is just trying to keep the pork chops down!!!