The unprepared family you wont turn away-firearms

[bingley]

Are we all soldiers or police in our society? No, because there are lots of other jobs, essential jobs, that do not require the use of violence. It may also be the same in a survival situation. Extra manual labor might help, if your plans are flexible enough to benefit from it. Look at the division of labor in Stone Age societies: only some wield arms. There is plenty to do in the village.

You're not going to be in firefights all the time, or even much of the time. If you're going to be shooting thousands of rounds, you're probably fighting a better equipped, better supplied army, and you'll die anyway. But even in a firefight, there are things that non-shooters can do to help, like loading your mags/clips.

With that said, if you have the funds for some extra guns, why not? We're INGO after all!

 

[6mm Shoot]

I have been prepping for years for my family. I have told all of them to come to my place if things go wrong. I have enough ammo and fire arms to go around to the people that know how to use them. Also there will be people bringing there stuff with them. Bedding, food, guns, ammo and med stuff.

In a S.H.T.F. case you will need all the help we can get. People to help plant, hunt and all the things that will need to be dun. Some one needs to be able to make all sorts of things and repair all sorts of thing. Plumbing repair, auto repair. building things. welding, wood working, block work. There are just to many things that will be needed to be dun to turn family away.

There isn't a part of the house that I can't build, from roof to foundation. Plumbing to electrical. I have made a living doing it in one form or the other. I plant a garden every year, I hunt, fish. The thing is I can not do it all by my self. I can't dig a hole and watch my back at the same time. You need people to help you. Even if you are the only one that knows what has to be dun you still need people to do as you instruct them to get it dun.

If you think you are going to make it on your own because you have food and guns stashed you are wrong. You need people to help you make it.

 

[maverick18]

Well said bingley. Hadnt thought of it that way. Doesnt really matter how many guns we have. Only a certain number will be on patrol and the rest will be doing sone other tasks. A couple extra 'assault' rifles would go a long way. Dont have to arm them all just enough to field a good patrol group.

 

[bingley]

We like to think about firearms in a survival situation because we are a firearms forum. But if you look at historical examples of SHTF, I'd willing to bet there usually isn't that much fighting unless you're in a war zone. In that case, you'd better be in an army if you're righting. Otherwise, most of your time will be taken up with really tedious tasks like finding/making food, water, shelter, etc. Disease will be a bigger cause of casualty than my team of Viking marauders.

 

[churchmouse]

In my own defense the family that would not be welcome at our place are seriously worthless to do anything except run a smart phone or sit on Facebook. Not much use for a sales clerk from a mini-mart with Game-boy eye circles. These folks have chosen a path that leads to exactly "Nowhere". We have tried to get them involved in projects that would put them on a path to "Somewhere" but they look at tools/guns as if they were a virus.

Yes, there are many needs in the village and not all are defensive in nature but if the POOP fly's there has to be skill sets at the ready. Not much time to reset an already lazy mind and body.

 

[WETSU]

Maverick, good on you for not turning away family and other people you care about. Its that kind of moral backbone and compassion that will help rebuild our society after any SHTF collapse.

But you will need to protect them, and yourself. They will probably NOT be up to the task. Its about A LOT more than just shooting a gun in the direction of raiders. Mindset, tactics, skill, weapons handling, communications, fieldcraft, medical skills etc etc. All rolled into each person. Thats how people survive in fights.

So, if your kin cant do that, and I understand that, then you will need to form a core of fighters, just 3-4, to stand watch while others sleep. They will need to be well armed and equipped and well trained, hard men (or women). They need to treat it like a high risk security/VIP protection detail, because they are in fact protecting VIPs. Family.

If you DO have any shooters in the family group. Get them familar with 2 weapons and keep it at that. Whatever weapons your protection team uses or that you use. Then buy 2 extras. This way you can have perhaps 2 more guns in the fight and they can pick and take over if any of your team goes down.

Good luck man.

 

[Johnny C]

First of all its not a 'team', its my family. And I dont want to be standing before God on my judgement day trying to explain why I refused to help my own flesh and blood and instead leavingt then to fend for themselves. I couldn't eveb fathom my sister and her two kids showing up to my property and me turning them away. How would I be able to live with myself if 20 miles down the road on tbe way to the FEMA camp they were raped and murdered? The idea of turning away family makes me sick to my stomach. Its an argument like this that forced me to quit the MSG I was a part of.

The thought behind this thread is to get ideas on what way to best arm my unprepared family members in the event of a SHTF situation. NOT to question my decision to not turn them away. And of course I dont expect to give them rifles and expect us to instantly become the 10th mtn division. Its just a few extra rifles never hurt in a firefight .

I would think offering to teach them to shoot and the safety rules before SHTF, should be on the docket before buying a heap of guns and ammo. maybe get at least one of the arms you plan on stockpiling and use that to teach them.

 

[silentvoice71]

This whole viking thing too will die quickly because people like that will meet their demise quickly. Attacking a compound from which you have no info on is stupid not to mention you have no idea about weapons their hiding and extra people scouts that may have seen you etc erc. The group and i will gladly dispatch those. OP build your arsenal in w/e caliber you want. I can build a AR for under 550 thats reliable.

 

[maverick18]

Its not like they are completely dead weight either. My uncle is an electrical engineer, but my aunt is worthless. My brother in law can fix anything with a diesel engine and my sister is a nurse in training. Dad used to shoot often and just hasnt in a long time due to my mom not liking guns. Mother in law is a nurse. The only person I have ever thought about shunning away was my older sister because she was a drug using piece of $@*t. But she has since found God and cleaned up her act ane is now a substitute teacher grtting her teaching degree.

There are 6 of us with firearms and load out gear and the training to use them. So I figured we would be the security team poviding overlook on the property and roving patrols. But if this is a long term grid down TEOTWAWKI, then I would like to have extra firearms on hand to be able to train some of the others so the security team could rest and do the other tasks we have trained for. I am the gardener and off grid power specialist. My cousin is a doctor, my brother is a machinist/ welder.

 

[mertbl]

How do I get in on the Fort Wayne warlord group?

I've thought about the issue myself. Immediate family is more or less scattered to the four winds so its probably not an issue. What is left is probably only good for manual labor.

 

[ViperJock]

Last couple years my wife and I have been giving emergency/preps as bday and Christmas presents. Not much "fun" but no one returns them either so...

 

[Birds Away]

I would think that having a few shotguns in the mix would be very useful. Easy to train to. Plenty of firepower for close in work. Also would allow less experienced people to still contribute small game. Just a thought.

 

[Sailor]

How do I get in on the Fort Wayne warlord group?

I've thought about the issue myself. Immediate family is more or less scattered to the four winds so its probably not an issue. What is left is probably only good for manual labor.

10oz of gold and a few hot 18 yr olds.

 

[88GT]

My immediate family and my brother and to a lesser extent my cousin and his wife have been prepping for a few years now. If it were just us needing to bug in we would be set for many years. The problem is that I have a large family and no matter how hard I try to make myself, I kno there is no way I would turn them away. So thrn ny preps for a group of four for three years + turns into mere months with all the people that I know would show up. So I think I have the food problem worked out (more on that later), but this thread is to discuss what is the best route to arm a large group of people with little to no firearm experience the cheapest way possible with the most effective weapons.

A crate full of mosins and a few spam cans of ammo? A couple less cheaper modern rifles like savage axis or equivalent in a modern caliber that is more expensive to stock? 12 or 20 ga shotguns due to versatility and ammo availability? A couple cheaper ARs and make them share when on patrol?

If it helps the ammo we already stockpile is .22lr, 9mm, .40, 7.62x39, .223, and 7.62x51.

Thanks for your time.

They don't get armed. Period. I probably wouldn't be all that friendly with the food either. But there's no way I'm handing a firearm over to a complete newb. Ever. And certainly not in high stress situations.

 

[mertbl]

10oz of gold and a few hot 18 yr olds.

That ain't gonna happen, I can bring brass and steel.

 

[jbrooks19]

My immediate family and my brother and to a lesser extent my cousin and his wife have been prepping for a few years now. If it were just us needing to bug in we would be set for many years. The problem is that I have a large family and no matter how hard I try to make myself, I kno there is no way I would turn them away. So thrn ny preps for a group of four for three years + turns into mere months with all the people that I know would show up. So I think I have the food problem worked out (more on that later), but this thread is to discuss what is the best route to arm a large group of people with little to no firearm experience the cheapest way possible with the most effective weapons.

A crate full of mosins and a few spam cans of ammo? A couple less cheaper modern rifles like savage axis or equivalent in a modern caliber that is more expensive to stock? 12 or 20 ga shotguns due to versatility and ammo availability? A couple cheaper ARs and make them share when on patrol?

If it helps the ammo we already stockpile is .22lr, 9mm, .40, 7.62x39, .223, and 7.62x51.

Thanks for your time.

IMHO i think smaller arms, more controllable calibers would be best for people with little firearm knowledge, a Mosin has quite a bit of "Kick" for a new shooter, so maybe some Bolt action .223's would be a good idea for range and then maybe Hipoint carbine for mid-range and then of course handguns for up close (Hipoints are cheap and reliable and can be thrown at the offender if you/your team run out of ammo!)

 

[6mm Shoot]

churchmouse I know what you are saying. I have people in my family that I don't know how they remember to breath. No way no how would I give one of them a gun.

One of my sisters boys told me he didn't like me. I had told him to quit climbing on a table. I told him that was fine he just had to do as I told him and we would get along fine. If not I would turn him over my nee and bust his butt. He said you can't do that I will call the police. I told him that was fine I will still bust your butt and you can call who ever you want. He looked at his mom and she said he will do it. We have gotten along every since.

I know that there will be things to work out between people. There always is when you put groups of people together in close quarters. Also the only reason this will happen is for the good of all. I have also stated that any one that don't want to stay and work with the group can go.

The hard part will be sending someone down the road because they are not pulling their weight or causing trouble. I would do it for the good of the group. Not much in life is easy and I don't expect some thing like that to go any easier.

 

[in_betts]

Last couple years my wife and I have been giving emergency/preps as bday and Christmas presents. Not much "fun" but no one returns them either so...

^^^^ It became a family joke that EVERYBODY was going to get a flashlight as part of their Christmas package. We have since expanded into other useful items. When they were moving to a more urban area, one DIL got a $165 Surefire and my wife freaked at first but has it all sorted now.

As for the weapon choice I would have to agree that the frequency of use will be the "less exciting" stuff. Not exactly comparable, but since our last move 3.5 years ago I have killed more critters with a bolt action Marlin .22 with iron sights than anything else. One coyote lived (wounded) from that and it probably wouldn't have happened with a more powerful package. Though I haven't as of yet had the pleasure, a guy I used to work with has eaten groundhog aplenty and said "hey, they eat nothing buy the finest greens" and this may be something to think about.

 

[churchmouse]

They don't get armed. Period. I probably wouldn't be all that friendly with the food either. But there's no way I'm handing a firearm over to a complete newb. Ever. And certainly not in high stress situations.

Exactly.....Train first or no pop gun....period.

 

[LarryC]

I am not a "prepper" in the conventional sense. I do have adequate food for probably a year for my wife and I - but I live in a small city. I do know how to survive in a woods, and could feed my wife, build a shelter etc if necessary even at my age of 72. If a SHTF situation occurs, I do believe that there is one commodity that will be worth far more than food, shelter or pounds of gold. That is firearms and ammunition! My youngest son and I have collected firearms and stockpiled ammo for over 20 years.

We have about 100 firearms, and at least 30,000 rounds (just a few thousand 22's and a thousand or so shotgun ammo - rest is mostly High power rifle and handgun). We have multiple reloader's and die set for all our calibers, also have enough powder, primers, bullets, brass, lead and molds so that we can replace at least 30K rounds at this time. As I see it, if I have 10 years supply of food and a rock solid shelter, mobile van etc. - none of it is worth a damn unless I can protect it. With the firearms and ammo, I can trade for food or any other supplies I need. I have two son's and my best friend that live locally (in the country) with fairly easily defend-able home-sites. In a SHTF situation we (family members and friends) would meet at one or more of these and set up to defend it well. I have a fairly large generator that can be pretty easily converted to run on propane, so water and electricity would not be an issue for some period of time.

Much of my food is frozen and would need to be kept frozen until smoked / dried /canned or salt cured - but all can be done. If SHTF, game laws will not be a concern so I know I can obtain fresh food. I consider arms and ammo a great investment - both monetarily and for preparedness in case of a catastrophe. I know people that hoard gold - but doubt it would be useful in that situation. In the Ops case I would purchase a few Mosins and plenty of ammo. They are probably the simplest rifle to maintain, to train someone to use, has a very long effective range, durable as any rifle made and ammo is pretty darn cheap yet.