The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

[bwframe]

Tesla owner says he had to cancel Christmas plans because car would not charge in freezing weather

Virginia radio personality Domenick Nati says he had to cancel Christmas plans because his Tesla S car would not charge when he plugged it in at multiple sites.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[Ingomike]

Tesla owner says he had to cancel Christmas plans because car would not charge in freezing weather

Virginia radio personality Domenick Nati says he had to cancel Christmas plans because his Tesla S car would not charge when he plugged it in at multiple sites.

www.foxbusiness.com

I addition to all the things we usually discuss concerning logical disconnects, one not mentioned is that many buyers of EV’s think they are simple things that plug in and run. No thought is given how many complex operations are being performed by the second. They are aware they have no idea how an ICE runs but mistakenly believe that EV’s are simple…

 

[pitbulld45]

Found this interesting and in a side note cobalt and lithium are in large mined in Congo using child labor.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Found this interesting and in a side note cobalt and lithium are in large mined in Congo using child labor.

Which is more fun? That's my big concern. I bet I know without watching the video, I almost bought a Raptor.

Why do people care about child labor for batteries for EVs but not for laptops and cell phones? Anybody here giving up their devices over this concern?

 

[Cameramonkey]

Which is more fun? That's my big concern. I bet I know without watching the video, I almost bought a Raptor.

Why do people care about child labor for batteries for EVs but not for laptops and cell phones? Anybody here giving up their devices over this concern?

two reasons?
1: Quantity. The amount of those minerals required for laptops and phones is miniscule compared to the huge EV batteries.
2: Choices. We can choose to not buy an EV and run an ICE with a lead-acid battery. Not buying a phone or laptop is not exactly optional for most people.

 

[pitbulld45]

Why do people care about child labor for batteries for EVs but not for laptops and cell phones? Anybody here giving up their devices over this concern?

I have wondered the same about child labor and many other products including shoes etc.

This article doesnt cover a specific vehicle but the general production, maintaining, life span and recycling or lack of. It also talks about that fossil fuels make up a huge portion of each vehicle

 

[Hoosierdood]

Which is more fun? That's my big concern. I bet I know without watching the video, I almost bought a Raptor.

Why do people care about child labor for batteries for EVs but not for laptops and cell phones? Anybody here giving up their devices over this concern?

For the most part, nobody is claiming to be saving the world by purchasing/using phones and computers. The ones pushing the EV market generally are the same ones talking about pollution, save the environment, and hug a tree. The hypocrisy is thick with them.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

For the most part, nobody is claiming to be saving the world by purchasing/using phones and computers. The ones pushing the EV market generally are the same ones talking about pollution, save the environment, and hug a tree. The hypocrisy is thick with them.

Hypocrisy is a truly renewable resource.

So, here's my quick take on that. In a market place that includes things like the EV Hummer and the Ludicrous Teslas, the EV manufacturers have recognized that the people making those noises aren't where the meat is. Nobody giving it 30 seconds of thought thinks an EV Hummer is more environmentally friendly than a Ford Ecosport. The EV Hummer is for people who want a big honking stupid SUV but want that little nudge to spin the Wheel of Justification that it's better for the environment than a gas powered big honking stupid SUV. And maybe it is once they both have 80k miles on it, maybe it isn't, I don't know and I don't care. But I would bet you my favorite lung that a regular ol' gas powered Civic is easier on the environment than either. But it's so flipping boring that there's no way it's going to be cross shopped with the Hummer.

The people who actually care are much more likely to be driving the tiny ecobox cars of either flavor. Smaller vehicles need less energy to extract raw materials for, manufacture, move around during their life, and dispose of afterward.

*I* obviously don't care, given I'm driving a car with a 6.2L and a truck with a 6.4L. If you ever want me (you being hypothetical EV maker) to get me interested you've got to make it fun and capable. Which is why a large portion of the EV market has moved away from eco-weinie advertising. Ford Lightning marketing, for example.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I have wondered the same about child labor and many other products including shoes etc.

This article doesnt cover a specific vehicle but the general production, maintaining, life span and recycling or lack of. It also talks about that fossil fuels make up a huge portion of each vehicle

I get it. I've seen multiple studies on the topic because I'm sort of interested from a financial perspective (ie, should I invest in this, and I came up with not for me, stick with energy). *Generally* the consensus from people who seem relatively unbiased is that EVs start in the hole due to the energy costs of building them, but bypass a similar gas vehicle around the 50-60k miles mark as far as total energy consumption and pollution levels. This is due, largely, to two things. Emissions are easier to control at one big source than a bunch of little ones as a more minor one, and the huge inefficiency of internal combustion as the major driver. When you burn gas, more of the energy released turns to useless heat than turns your wheels. Electric motors are much less wasteful and generation plants don't waste the heat like individual motors do.

Now, where these studies tend to be incomplete is end of life concerns, and I won't touch on that.

If we really wanted to be all enviro friendly, we'd stop making cars bigger and bigger. But we Americans really like big cars. I'd strangle a penguin barehanded before I drove a Geo Metro, and I like penguins.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

two reasons?
1: Quantity. The amount of those minerals required for laptops and phones is miniscule compared to the huge EV batteries.
2: Choices. We can choose to not buy an EV and run an ICE with a lead-acid battery. Not buying a phone or laptop is not exactly optional for most people.

I would like to see figures on #1, given how many lithium powered devices we buy compared to EVs. My cell phone, my electric razor, my laptop, my rechargeable flashlight, a host of rechargeable power tools...and I bet a lot of people are the same vs the relatively small adoption of EVs. Regardless, it's pretty rarely seen for anyone bring up child labor in a discussion on upgrading a phone or buying a more powerful laptop. It only seems to matter in the EV context.

#2, ok, so you make a necessity argument. But how many of those are bought from need vs "upgrades" when the old one works fine. How many go to the landfill functional but old? How many people are buying a lower powered version to use less lithium? If necessity is truly the concern, not just a gotcha for one product, those considerations would play in equally for someone actually concerned about child labor. But, we aren't, because it's invisible to us. If we had to go see the mines every day we'd keep using our old cell, demand companies use more ethical extraction techniques even if we pay more, etc, but it's not real to us so we don't actually care. And that's not an indictment, there's way too much tragedy in the world for a person to really care about each one, even if they know about it, or you'd be paralyzed. It's just why make the argument here and not there.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Yep. Too many people are always chasing "the next shiny".

 

[MCgrease08]

There's already a very robust thread on this topic.

The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/electric-vehicle-ownership-costs/

www.indianagunowners.com

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Yep. Too many people are always chasing "the next shiny".

I would if I wasn't so cheap. I punch nature in the face by driving stupid vehicles and flying to far away places for no other reason that to see them and then fly back to where I started. But I hate single use plastics because *that's* where I'm going to make a difference, right? Luckily for me my Wheel of Justification is finely lubricated.

 

[indyblue]

Well, I have run every computer, phone and car until they were either no longer working, capable of doing the job or repair parts become impossible to get.

That's my biggest complaint against Apple iThings, they are obsoleted way too soon. I have an original iPad that works fine, but cannot get updated browsers or anything to keep it useful anymore. I think the last version of ios for it was version 9. I have old iphone 5 & SE that could no longer cope with current apps/speeds but are otherwise working perfectly, so I have an SE 2020 with 5g and latest ios.

 

[JCSR]

That's too bad....

Homeless camps surround LA's expensive EV charging stations (video)

Conservative commentator Alexandra Datig shared a video of her driving in downtown LA on Wednesday, with one of the local Blink EV charging stations surrounded by trash and tents.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[PGRChaplain]

I found out today the EV's require special Tires. Seems they weigh 1000# - 1300# more than a similar sized vehicle. I haven't researched those tire prices yet, but ill bet their Pricey!

 

[PGRChaplain]

Just checked, here's one for the Tesla.

Discount Tire | Tires and Wheels for Sale | Online & In-Person

www.discounttire.com

Wow, $355 each! I put Goodreads on the Wife's SUV last Summer, $500 for all 4.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Just checked, here's one for the Tesla.

Discount Tire | Tires and Wheels for Sale | Online & In-Person

www.discounttire.com

Wow, $355 each! I put Goodreads on the Wife's SUV last Summer, $500 for all 4.

Yeah you wouldn't want to put budget tires on one. You won't really need a special tire for it. You will just want a good quality one that is rated correctly and has a higher wear rating. Rotating and maintaining proper pressure will also be more important, because they are definitely harder on tires.

 

[indykid]

Good point about the tires. With the much heavier weights of an EV you really have to be careful with the load capacity.

Way back I got to play with a BMW 850 that weighed just over 4000 pounds. It blew my mind at the time having a half ton on each tire. Today many EVs are over 5000 pounds with the new GM E-Hummer nearing 10,000 pounds!!!

Low rolling resistance, high load capacity, big big dollars.

 

[wingrider1800]

Sell em by the pound.