The President Trump Immigration Thread

[SheepDog4Life]

And they say Trump's not a genius. This ends the lib DACA bluff right now.

Yes, 17 years after the earthquake that caused us to charitably open our doors defies any reasonable meaning of the word "temporary".

These and the Haitians. I will be fair; install the points based immigration scoring system and I'll let the ones determined to meet the criteria for an acceptable score apply for citizenship immediately (but they go home in the interim)

Bug, I would have no problem with them applying while they are still here since they are (currently) here legally.

IMO, they didn't "jump the line" ahead of legal status seekers and take someone else's slot like illegal aliens have (both those who illegally crossed the border or illegally overstayed their expired visa).

 

[KLB]

Were they able to apply for citizenship while they were here?

Seems silly to keep extending a temporary permit for that long. Congress should have done something one way or another long before this.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Were they able to apply for citizenship while they were here?

Seems silly to keep extending a temporary permit for that long. Congress should have done something one way or another long before this.

If they were smart and planned on staying indefinitely, they could have applied for a green card and permanent status. That is the path to citizenship, though permanent legal status is permanent (unless you commit crimes). It is not known how many did either or both, and were successful.

The temporary protection is declared by the President and continues until the emergency conditions are declared "over". IIRC, the Bush administration declared the emergency due to the earthquakes in 2001.

What the Trump administration did was declare that the emergency conditions from the 2001 earthquake are over, that conditions in El Salvador have returned to "normal" as they were prior to the earthquake, so the beneficiaries of the temporary permits now have 2 years to make arrangements to return or face deportation.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Just found this... yes, W initiated the TPS status for El Salvador in 2001:

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/pressrelease/BushElSalvadorEng_030201.pdf



And here is a list of countries with current or expiring TPS status:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempo...e_under_temporary_protected_status_as_of_2018

Obama appears to have been particularly "busy" with TPS.

Though, in fairness, his administration did "expire" after 3 years several of the TPS's he issued during his Presidency: Guinea, Liberia, and Sierra Leone.



Also, this from wikipedia:

By November 2017, about 300,000 foreign nationals were recipients of protection under temporary protected status.[5] Some have been in the United States since the 1990s. People with temporary protected status are able to obtain work authorization every 18 months since the designation was made, in some cases for many years.[6]

So, the 200-260,000 El Salvadors are by far the biggest piece of this pie.

 

[ghitch75]

Judge rules against Trump administration on rescinding DACA | Fox News

 

[BugI02]

Established by Executive Action, undone via the same method. Send it to the supremes

Most likely foot-dragging in the hope of winning the house so they can bring up DREAM act for another fail

Same refrain; establish scoring system for potential immigrants and if you meet the criteria, you can stay. If you are a net drag on the system, bon voyage. You have to establish limits somewhere and have the backbone to enforce them

 

[IndyDave1776]

Established by Executive Action, undone via the same method. Send it to the supremes

Most likely foot-dragging in the hope of winning the house so they can bring up DREAM act for another fail

Same refrain; establish scoring system for potential immigrants and if you meet the criteria, you can stay. If you are a net drag on the system, bon voyage. You have to establish limits somewhere and have the backbone to enforce them

All true, although I fail to see how there is any room for litigation under the circumstances other than the left successfully shopping for a leftist judge just like they did with the travel ban.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Judge rules against Trump administration on rescinding DACA | Fox News

We are now seeing that there is no limit to the political judicial activism to achieve their objectives. This is pure, naked political #Resist activism, and abuse of power, from the bench. At some point, there must be consequence (i.e. impeachment versus simply over-ruling).

Established by Executive Action, undone via the same method. Send it to the supremes

Most likely foot-dragging in the hope of winning the house so they can bring up DREAM act for another fail

Same refrain; establish scoring system for potential immigrants and if you meet the criteria, you can stay. If you are a net drag on the system, bon voyage. You have to establish limits somewhere and have the backbone to enforce them

i completely agree that the majority of immigration to the US should be calculated to IMPROVE the country, and a points scoring system does exactly that, which is why some other countries already use such scoring for immigration to their country.

I do believe that some other immigration, like refuges when it makes sense, should be allowed. For example, an Iraqi (and his family) who aided the US in our efforts there, who would be unsafe in ANY M.E. country, should be considered for permanent status and/or citizenship. On the other hand, someone who can re-locate a few hundred miles and escape immediate violence should do exactly that, not demand to come here from the other side of the world, both literally and figuratively.

All true, although I fail to see how there is any room for litigation under the circumstances other than the left successfully shopping for a leftist judge just like they did with the travel ban.

Bingo!

And they found one... hence the imperial ruling.

 

[BugI02]

We are now seeing that there is no limit to the political judicial activism to achieve their objectives. This is pure, naked political #Resist activism, and abuse of power, from the bench. At some point, there must be consequence (i.e. impeachment versus simply over-ruling).



i completely agree that the majority of immigration to the US should be calculated to IMPROVE the country, and a points scoring system does exactly that, which is why some other countries already use such scoring for immigration to their country.

[I haven't looked at it, but perhaps initially we should just adopt Canada's points system in order to allay fears that anything the administration would come up with would be a secret muslim ban (or a ban on secret muslims? )]
[Plus, it's already complete - simple up or down vote and no messy closed door deals/tweaking]

I do believe that some other immigration, like refuges when it makes sense, should be allowed. For example, an Iraqi (and his family) who aided the US in our efforts there, who would be unsafe in ANY M.E. country, should be considered for permanent status and/or citizenship. On the other hand, someone who can re-locate a few hundred miles and escape immediate violence should do exactly that, not demand to come here from the other side of the world, both literally and figuratively.

[It would simply be a matter of awarding bonus points for direct aid to the US mission in zones of conflict (via testimony by US soldiers who worked with them). I'm a little leery of the 'imminent danger' standard, as that is exactly what border-jumpers are taught to use to forstall immediate deportation and is used as a delaying tactic. If you are in danger because you aided US forces, somebody should have vetted you and have a record of it]

Bingo!

And they found one... hence the imperial ruling.

The Salvadorans here for 16+ years are just the latest example of how out of hand this has gotten. If you were given TPS, but your homeland is a hole, do we have to entirely fix every problem for you and make it as good as being in the US?

No. Go home and work to fix it. It's the same old song and dance, take every opportunity to extend renewals of Temporary Protected Status until they've been here such a long time that you can argue that they should stay because going home would be such a hardship. There seems to be no sense in the process except some vague belief that anybody who wants to live in the US should be able to (because its really great) with no sense of the challenges unfettered migration pose to the things that make living in the US great (and likely a sense that they will never have to rub elbows with the recipient unless they want to, for a photo op or something)

 

[SheepDog4Life]

DACA Still Alive? Not Really and Not Totally.

Ok, I've read most of the court decision on Trump's DACA rescission. Though the judge IMO over-stepped, in most ways it's not as "bad" as the news media portrays. It pretty clearly identifies that existing DACA recipients will continue to be allowed to renew in order to retain work permits while the case is being decided.

But, they cannot travel abroad and expect to be re-admitted (advance parole), for example.

No new DACA certs need be issued, only renewals.

And, most significantly, they can also be deported by ICE for pretty much any reason that ICE determines justifies their removal/deportation. I.e. DACA deportation protection remains rescinded even in this order.

The decision SOLELY prevents current DACA recipients from losing their jobs due to work permits expiring while the court case get fought. I see no other effect.

The link to the court decision:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4345906/1-9-18-DACA-Opinion.pdf

The scope of the relief from the decision:

For the foregoing reasons, defendants ARE HEREBY ORDERED AND ENJOINED, pending final judgment herein or other order, to maintain the DACA program on a nationwide basis on the same terms and conditions as were in effect before the rescission on September 5, 2017, including allowing DACA enrollees to renew their enrollments, with the exceptions (1) that new applications from applicants who have never before received deferred action need not be processed; (2) that the advance parole feature need not be continued for the time being for anyone; and (3) that defendants may take administrative steps to make sure fair discretion is exercised on an individualized basis for each renewal application.

Nothing in this order prohibits the agency from proceeding to remove any individual, including any DACA enrollee, who it determines poses a risk to national security or public safety, or otherwise deserves, in its judgment, to be removed. Nor does this order bar the agency from granting advance parole in individual cases it finds deserving, or from granting deferred action to new individuals on an ad hoc basis.

 

[jamil]

Ok, I've read most of the court decision on Trump's DACA rescission. Though the judge IMO over-stepped, in most ways it's not as "bad" as the news media portrays. It pretty clearly identifies that existing DACA recipients will continue to be allowed to renew in order to retain work permits while the case is being decided.

But, they cannot travel abroad and expect to be re-admitted (advance parole), for example.

No new DACA certs need be issued, only renewals.

And, most significantly, they can also be deported by ICE for pretty much any reason that ICE determines justifies their removal/deportation. I.e. DACA deportation protection remains rescinded even in this order.

The decision SOLELY prevents current DACA recipients from losing their jobs due to work permits expiring while the court case get fought. I see no other effect.

The link to the court decision:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4345906/1-9-18-DACA-Opinion.pdf

The scope of the relief from the decision:

But innocent immigrant children are dying in the streets! DYING IN THE STREETS!!

 

[bwframe]

[video=youtube;l7CzydarImA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7CzydarImA&feature=em-uploademail[/video]

 

[T.Lex]

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/16/dhs-asks-prosecutors-charge-sanctuary-city-leaders/

Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen confirmed Tuesday that her department has asked federal prosecutors to see if they can lodge criminal charges against sanctuary cities that refuse to cooperate with federal deportation efforts.

This would be a Really Bad Idea.

Honestly, to even explicitly ask for this to be considered is a Really Bad Idea.

 

[spec4]

^^^ Why? We are either a nation of law or we aren't. Seriously, I'd like to know your thinking on this.

 

[T.Lex]

^^^ Why? We are either a nation of law or we aren't. Seriously, I'd like to know your thinking on this.

Federal authorities arresting local politicians for not cooperating with federal law. Not for breaking it. For not cooperating with it.

That sounds like a good idea to you?

 

[ghitch75]

this is good if they can make it stick..

DHS asked prosecutors to consider charging sanctuary city leaders | Fox News

 

[jamil]

Federal authorities arresting local politicians for not cooperating with federal law. Not for breaking it. For not cooperating with it.

That sounds like a good idea to you?

Why was that batty sheriff in AZ arrested. It’s kinda the same principle. If you want local officials to enforce laws, and you advocate for those local officials to be arrested if they don’t comply, IT GOES BOTH WAYS.

 

[Leadeye]

Federal authorities arresting local politicians for not cooperating with federal law. Not for breaking it. For not cooperating with it.

That sounds like a good idea to you?

Not being a lawyer, somebody would have to explain the details between breaking and not cooperating to me.

 

[T.Lex]

Why was that batty sheriff in AZ arrested. It’s kinda the same principle. If you want local officials to enforce laws, and you advocate for those local officials to be arrested if they don’t comply, IT GOES BOTH WAYS.

You're going to have to be WAY more specific.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about.

Not being a lawyer, somebody would have to explain the details between breaking and not cooperating to me.

"Am I being detained?"

 

[BugI02]

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/16/dhs-asks-prosecutors-charge-sanctuary-city-leaders/



This would be a Really Bad Idea.

Honestly, to even explicitly ask for this to be considered is a Really Bad Idea.

But will the trains run on time?