The President Trump Immigration Thread

[ArcadiaGP]

wait i've discovered a wrinkle in this plan

better throw in some alternates... like emrgency, emergncy, emrgncy, wal, wll, eemergency.... dammit, there are too many ways to muck this up.

 

[T.Lex]

With all due respect, bull****.

It doesn't really matter whether congress meant to restrict or expand the President's emergency powers. The wrote the law such that when the President declared an emergency, he could direct spending on certain appropriated money.

The discretion for declaring an emergency is purely the President's, with a veto-proof majority of Congress required to rebuke it.

This is NOT a constitutional issue... it is a policy and politics issue. He is operating within the four corners of the law.

I think you misunderstand: I agree. Trump was/is absolutely within his powers to do what he did.

But, my friend, it absolutely IS a constitutional issue. Just like the War Powers Act and other legislative usurpations of the executive's power.

wait i've discovered a wrinkle in this plan

better throw in some alternates... like emrgency, emergncy, emrgncy, wal, wll, eemergency.... dammit, there are too many ways to muck this up.

Holy rabbit holes, Batman. That's a fascinating site to burn time in.

Looks like he stopped using/retweeting words that would get censored here at INGO in about 2015.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I think you misunderstand: I agree. Trump was/is absolutely within his powers to do what he did.

But, my friend, it absolutely IS a constitutional issue. Just like the War Powers Act and other legislative usurpations of the executive's power.

Let me re-phrase, THIS emergency declaration is not a constitutional issue/conflict because President Trump has not asserted emergency powers beyond what is statutorily available to him.

 

[jbombelli]

I think you misunderstand: I agree. Trump was/is absolutely within his powers to do what he did.

But, my friend, it absolutely IS a constitutional issue. Just like the War Powers Act and other legislative usurpations of the executive's power.



Holy rabbit holes, Batman. That's a fascinating site to burn time in.

Looks like he stopped using/retweeting words that would get censored here at INGO in about 2015.

If Congress is concerned about the president having too much power, maybe they should STOP GIVING THEIR POWER TO THE PRESIDENT.

This is 100% on Congress, when the president USES THE POWER AND AUTHORITY THEY GAVE HIM.

Pen and phone anybody?

 

[T.Lex]

Let me re-phrase, THIS emergency declaration is not a constitutional issue/conflict because President Trump has not asserted emergency powers beyond what is statutorily available to him.

Let's pretend I can dance the tango. I can tango with or without you. But, you and I agree that we will tango together, and establish a certain procedure for asking to tango, agreeing to tango, and when to stop tangoing. That doesn't change that I can still tango without you. Even when we tango together.

If Congress is concerned about the president having too much power, maybe they should STOP GIVING THEIR POWER TO THE PRESIDENT.

This is 100% on Congress, when the president USES THE POWER AND AUTHORITY THEY GAVE HIM.

Pen and phone anybody?

Lincoln didn't need legislation. Nor FDR. Those are the 2 that come to my mind in terms of taking matters into the hands of the executive.

(I feel like this horse remains dead, even after beating it again.)

I'm not arguing with y'all about this emergency declaration. At this point, it is a political issue - as long as no one upshifts to a constitutional crisis.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Let's pretend I can dance the tango. I can tango with or without you. But, you and I agree that we will tango together, and establish a certain procedure for asking to tango, agreeing to tango, and when to stop tangoing. That doesn't change that I can still tango without you. Even when we tango together.

I have a Mustang 302 Boss capable of 155 MPH (more if I defeat the computer limit ).

You decree that I may never drive it over 70 MPH.

I determine on this particular trip, I'm fine with going 65 MPH... but will peg the pedal to the floor any damn time I feel like it.

I just don't feel the need this time.

Your "speed limit" is not an issue... this time.

 

[T.Lex]

I have a Mustang 302 Boss capable of 155 MPH (more if I defeat the computer limit ).

You decree that I may never drive it over 70 MPH.

I determine on this particular trip, I'm fine with going 65 MPH... but will peg the pedal to the floor any damn time I feel like it.

I just don't feel the need this time.

Your "speed limit" is not an issue... this time.

Exactly.

Why do you hate dance?

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Exactly.

Why do you hate dance?

I'm older... but not old enough to tango.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Just an added note, in this case, operating within the statute instead of exerting contested Constitutional powers does not require Presidential "acquiescence"... just like my driving 65 can be totally my choice.

Adhering to the War Powers Act, does require acquiescence... and, for the most part, Presidents haven't.

 

[T.Lex]

I'm not even sure acquiescence can be a thing in this context. I mean, there could be lots of reasons why a POTUS of one party might play ball with a same-party Congress.

IMHO there are some "core" executive powers that any given POTUS is only encumbered by Congress to the extent he (or she, someday) concedes to it.

Granted, some of these things are well-intentioned from a process standpoint. It is best if POTUS and Congress can agree on the mechanics of HOW an emergency is declared and executed. But, that is fundamentally different than abdicating the associated powers.

 

[BugI02]

The veto override was always a simple math problem.

The real issue now is that POTUS found a trump card up his sleeve that beats all sorts of checks and balances.

Will be ... interesting ... to see how (often) he uses it.

Easier to ask forgiveness (or, uhhh ... not bother) than to ask permission?

 

[jamil]

The veto override was always a simple math problem.

The real issue now is that POTUS found a trump card up his sleeve that beats all sorts of checks and balances.

Will be ... interesting ... to see how (often) he uses it.

And, every president in the future. We’re ****ed. And the crowd cheers “MAGA”!

 

[IndyDave1776]

And, every president in the future. We’re ****ed. And the crowd cheers “MAGA”!

At least we get to worry about that problem later. Without stopping the invasion now, we can bend over and kiss our added goodbye before we really have to worry about those long term implications.

 

[jamil]

At least we get to worry about that problem later. Without stopping the invasion now, we can bend over and kiss our added goodbye before we really have to worry about those long term implications.

Well. We dont HAVE to cheer MAGA while Trump uses his pen and phone to transform government from rule of law to rule of men. We could, you know, put up at least some semblance of protest.

 

[BugI02]

And, every president in the future. We’re ****ed. And the crowd cheers “MAGA”!

[video=youtube;-ewq73ADlEg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ewq73ADlEg[/video]

 

[jbombelli]

And, every president in the future. We’re ****ed. And the crowd cheers “MAGA”!

Remember a few years back, when Obama said he had a pen and phone and would bypass Congress to get what he wants? Remember when some of us were saying "he shouldn't do that blah blah blah"? Remember that? I remember that. I was one of them saying it. I've historically been one of those saying presidents shouldn't do this or that because power will shift and the people cheering for it now won't like it later.

I got insulted for my efforts. I was told by many Democrats that elections have consequences, that there would never ever be a Republican in the White House again, so I should just **** off.


Now, I just don't care all that much anymore.

 

[BugI02]

Is the Reichstag on fire yet?

 

[Brad69]

So the MSM has been spouting the “crisis” on the border is manufactured crisis that is a lie by President DJT and is not “real”.
Unfortunately reality has hit again and it’s real when you have the President Obama DHS guy saying it’s bad and we are in bad shape he was handpicked by President Obama BTW. He topped it off by doing it on the right wing program Morning Joe.

https://freebeacon.com/national-security/obama-dhs-secretary-johnson-we-are-truly-in-a-crisis/

President	Regular vetoes	Pocket vetoes
Bill Clinton	36	1
George W. Bush	12	0
Barack Obama	12	0
Donald Trump	1 Yeah ? WTF !

 

[Route 45]

[video=youtube_share;6zlFAKoeCQQ]https://youtu.be/6zlFAKoeCQQ[/video]

 

[SheepDog4Life]

And, every president in the future. We’re ****ed. And the crowd cheers “MAGA”!

Again, Trump is operating within the letter of the law, using statutory powers granted him by Congress.

The only question is whether, politically, the border crisis fits within the discretion of declaring it an "emergency". By definition, it does as Congress failed to override his veto.

And note that a compromise was offered, allowing "some" funding this time in exchange for changing the statute, and was shot-down by Pelosi and Schumer. They don't want this statutory "power" to go away, they just don't want Trump using it for something they disagree with.