The President Trump Immigration Thread

[BugI02]

A more focused look at illegals and crime, by John Lott

I expect the usual fur ball and obfuscation about the numbers, but I don't see anything wrong with the methodology. The numbers primarily deal with Arizona, where he has access to detailed data. I see nothing wrong with extrapolating it to other border states where authorities would not be so co-operative. Indeed, I would expect things to be worse in California

https://townhall.com/columnists/joh...s-the-right-choice-for-public-safety-n2538999
Look at the Data: Why Trump’s Insistence on a Wall Is the Right Choice for Public Safety

 

[SheepDog4Life]

How the MSM portrays "tunneling" that defeats a wall, making any new or enhanced walls ineffective, a waste of time and money, a fools errand:

In San Diego, which has one of the most fortified borders with Mexico, more than 60 tunnels have been found since fencing construction began. One was 90 feet underground.

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2018/sep/20/border-agency-spokesman-says-wall-prototypes-didnt/

The facts of the current situation, even at a location with an effective above-ground barrier, but defeated with a 2 foot HOLE underneath:

UK Dailymail - Largest single group of migrants EVER burrows UNDER border wall: 376 Central Americans - including 200 minors - squeeze through seven tiny holes and immediately request asylum
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ns-illegally-tunnel-border-fence-Arizona.html


Those are "holes" not "tunnels". You pretty much have to read foreign press to get an accurate description of what is happening at the border. US MSM is left-wing TASS now, zero credibility, IMO.

Whatever US MSM says, my "rule of thumb" assumption now is that it is a lie a la TASS. Emperically, when I have done a deep dive and fact-checked for myself, I've found this to be the better assumption, correct more often than not on any issue of debate, than accepting their reporting as anyhing approaching "fact" or "truth", but rather propaganda... yes, a la TASS. YMMV.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

US MSM (aka meet the new TASS same as the old TASS) Propaganda analogy....

"We are in the middle of a pine forest..."

What my research shows the objective facts to be after digging and researching from multiple sources:

 

[T.Lex]

Some interesting observations (with citations) from the BBC:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46824649

One excerpt:

Although Mr Trump has blamed the southern border for illegal immigration, most actually arises because people overstay their visas.
While almost 400,000 people were apprehended trying to cross the southern border illegally last year, more than 700,000 people who entered the US legally overstayed their expected departure date in 2018, according to the DHS.


Canadians were the highest group of overstayers, according to DHS figures, followed by Mexicans and Brazilians.
Although the number of overstayers overall dropped to around 420,000 in May 2018 - it was still more than the number of people arrested trying to enter illegally via the Mexico-US border.

 

[printcraft]

Some interesting observations (with citations) from the BBC:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46824649

One excerpt:

Although Mr Trump has blamed the southern border for illegal immigration, most actually arises because people overstay their visas.
While almost 400,000 people were apprehended trying to cross the southern border illegally last year, more than 700,000 people who entered the US legally overstayed their expected departure date in 2018, according to the DHS.

No, that does not mean that the majority of illegals here are legal overstayers (this has been floated here before).
It's interesting what info they choose to leave out.

"Number of people arrested trying to illegally enter the U.S."

NOT total number of illegal entries, I would guess that they arrest about 25%... and that seems high.

 

[T.Lex]

No, that does not mean that the majority of illegals here are legal overstayers (this has been floated here before).
It's interesting what info they choose to leave out.

"Number of people arrested trying to illegally enter the U.S."

NOT total number of illegal entries, I would guess that they arrest about 25%... and that seems high.

Well, the article says more than what I quoted.

Also, we really have no way of knowing how many illegals actually cross the border without visas. The typical way to measure it is the apprehension stat. If our efforts are at a static level - we enforce the same this year as last year - then if we catch more, we can presume there's more trying to cross. If we catch less, then the presumption is that there is less.

I agree that it is not an ideal way to measure something.

But, whatever percentage you use, the idea is that we can then determine the total.

It is probably more complete if they said, "The majority of illegal aliens that we know about for sure are overstayers."

 

[printcraft]

I agree that it is not an ideal way to measure something.

That's the point of what they choose to leave out.

The point of the article is trying to convey the false narrative that securing the border is not necessary as the "big problem" is legal overstayers when that isn't at all the case.

They have the hard data from the apprehension stat and KNOW it is a far greater number of illegals slipping over the open border that legal overstayers.

 

[T.Lex]

Well, do you think Trump is doing more, less, or about the same to apprehend people as Obama?

I tend to think he's doing more. So apprehending less, or the same, suggest that fewer people are trying to come across that way.

However, I've read something recently, and I can't remember where or I would link to it, that the numbers could also be faulty because "apprehensions" include people who would walk up to border patrol agents and turn themselves in for asylum or some other reason. The idea was that those "voluntary apprehensions" are less likely now, so that's why the numbers are reduced.

A different resource, with citations.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/

Undoubtedly, this is a difficult issue to quantify in terms of how many "new" ones are coming over.

There seems to be a consensus that there's ~10M who are already here and have been here awhile.

 

[BugI02]

Well, do you think Trump is doing more, less, or about the same to apprehend people as Obama?

I tend to think he's doing more. So apprehending less, or the same, suggest that fewer people are trying to come across that way.

However, I've read something recently, and I can't remember where or I would link to it, that the numbers could also be faulty because "apprehensions" include people who would walk up to border patrol agents and turn themselves in for asylum or some other reason. The idea was that those "voluntary apprehensions" are less likely now, so that's why the numbers are reduced.

A different resource, with citations.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/

Undoubtedly, this is a difficult issue to quantify in terms of how many "new" ones are coming over.

There seems to be a consensus that there's ~10M who are already here and have been here awhile.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics

View attachment 74004

 

[Dirtebiker]

A one time cost of $5.7 Billion dollars to help solve a problem that costs a net $116 Billion per year at all levels of government? My math says that if it is "only" 5% effective, it would yield a 100% return each and every year. Investment-wise, that's a no-brainer.

To me, that math changes the debate to require those opposed to any enhancements to the physical barrier to make their case that it would be 0% effective.

Our government wastes billions and billions EVERY year (if not every month) and they(Dems) want to keep a small part of government offices/services closed (or in their own words, “HELD HOSTAGE”) overa measly 5 billion? Just to TRY to make our President look bad!?

what happened to “If it saves one child”?

 

[Dirtebiker]

The mere act of notifying ICE that you hold a potential criminal deportee is not a budget-buster for local/state facilities. I mean, what, a phone call or an email? How much does that cost? But you're right; failure to do so should be tied to grants/subsidies. And how is this an expansion of Fed authority, if you recognize the Fed's responsibility to protect our borders to begin with?

.

I don’t know why it stopped, but here in Greenwood up until a few years ago if someone was caught driving without ever receiving a license and then found to be an illegal alien (or undocumented Democrat, lol) they would be held in jail until (about every two weeks) INS agents would come down from Chicago and take them back to face a Federal Judge. I don’t know what happened to them at that point, but at least they were doing something. Now IF they are arrested at all, they are released on a $200-250 bail to disappear or show up to court for a minor charge and as far as I know their legality is not even questioned.
is it racist to determine whether one is legal or not?

 

[Kutnupe14]

I don’t know why it stopped, but here in Greenwood up until a few years ago if someone was caught driving without ever receiving a license and then found to be an illegal alien (or undocumented Democrat, lol) they would be held in jail until (about every two weeks) INS agents would come down from Chicago and take them back to face a Federal Judge. I don’t know what happened to them at that point, but at least they were doing something. Now IF they are arrested at all, they are released on a $200-250 bail to disappear or show up to court for a minor charge and as far as I know their legality is not even questioned.
is it racist to determine whether one is legal or not?

That really, really hard to believe. The amount of ONL's floating around out there, is pretty staggering... and the if one is holding people until residency status is determined, then I'd question how exactly that is being done, and on what authority.

 

[bwframe]

https://kristv.com/news/2019/01/25/...aud-recent-election-david-whitley-ken-paxton/

 

[BugI02]

https://kristv.com/news/2019/01/25/...aud-recent-election-david-whitley-ken-paxton/

Unpossible! I was told that only ~20 people voted fraudulently in the whole country. Voter fraud doesn't happen. Ignore the women behind the Broward and Palm Beach curtains.

I'd love to see a breakdown by party of how they voted

 

[bwframe]

 

[bwframe]

Group of Border Patrol wives invite House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to visit Texas border town

 

[BugI02]

Group of Border Patrol wives invite House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to visit Texas border town

Pelosi might be a tough 'get', unless there are some five star resorts in that area of the Rio Grande (and she can bill the .gov for a 'fact finding' spa vacation)

 

[mmpsteve]

Pelosi might be a tough 'get', unless there are some five star resorts in that area of the Rio Grande (and she can bill the .gov for a 'fact finding' spa vacation)

At least she'll have her military jet back to use.

.

 

[bwframe]

[video=youtube;zhllFPaInXY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhllFPaInXY[/video]

 

[KG1]

[video=youtube;zhllFPaInXY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhllFPaInXY[/video]

The left is eating Brokaw alive for having the audacity to make such comments about Hispanics assimilating . Similar comments that have been made by other Democrats in the past.