The Pledge of Allegiance....in spanish?

[techres]

I understand the OP. Imagine a class in HomeEc where every once and awhile the students would be asked to stand and quickly fold some linen in order to show they could do it. But instead of normal linen this was the stars and bars.

In that case, something special, something with special rules about it's treatment, was in fact not being treated accordingly. As a result, some would refuse to participate out of respect for the special thing, not out of defiance of the teacher.

That is how I read this boy and his supportive father.

Now he is going to take flack for the other reason to refuse: defiance of the teacher and her presumed "intent". Many of the posters here are reacting to whether there is intent, or if we should presume intent, or if our presumptions are related to a culture and political war with our loss of American identity in the face of a Mexican invasion, etc.

But, taking the OP at his word, the issue for his son is respect for the pledge. And I can respect that. The pledge is not a game, or a quote, or a nursery rhyme sung while jumping rope. It is something uniquely different and thus an item for special treatment and respect. And for that kid, it is not respected in this way.

So, I get it, and I bet something could easily be worked out with the teacher so long as she understand that there is no fight against her. Make her defensive and all gets hard. Help her see that she is dealing with a boy of conviction, and she should come around. And, BTW, have another thing he could recite in the pledge's place. And make it 10% more difficult than the original deal. It does not need to be The Ghettysburg Address or Charge of the Light Brigade, but you get the point.

Good job OP! That's a good kid you have there.

 

[techres]

In my opinion, it's not a matter of sincerity. It's that he believes that the Pledge of Allegiance represents the Flag of the United States, as does the National Anthem (he said it would be just as bad if they made him sing it in spanish), and as such he feels that it should be said in English. He did go on further and conceded that it should at least be his choice if he wants to speak it in a language other than English, and that the other students should be allowed to make their own decision. I don't have a problem with that, and as I've said, I'm very proud of his maturity on this issue. He seems to be handling this better than I am, and that's why I wanted to see how others felt and what they would do in the same situation.

I missed this in my first read. Had I read it, I would not have needed to post anything.

Again, good job.

 

[Greg.B]

techres, thank you for understanding! When I first posted, I had reservations that this would head down a road that I didn't intend it to, so I'm trying to explain our position very clearly. As I had said previously, I don't want a public spectacle for him, I don't want a political war, and I don't want a defensive teacher feeling like we're attacking her. I just want him to know that it's ok to stick to his beliefs and to know that he's not going to be punished for it and that he's not going to be forced to go against them. The difficulty is relaying this to the teacher or counselor without causing them to feel that they need to go into defensive mode.

I think your suggestion of having something else to recite in place of the Pledge is an excellent idea, and am going to discuss it tomorrow with him.

 

[redneckmedic]

I still think yal are looking too deep into this, what would yal have the students recite
? And dont forget that most of the curriculum in spanish class has origins of Spain not Mexico. At least it did when I took it in H.S. and that was in Texas.

 

[Greg.B]

I still think yal are looking too deep into this, what would yal have the students recite
? And dont forget that most of the curriculum in spanish class has origins of Spain not Mexico. At least it did when I took it in H.S. and that was in Texas.

I don't know what to offer as an alternative, but I haven't researched possible alternatives yet. I do think doing that would be a good idea, as it would hopefully show the teacher that it's not a personal attack and that it really is against his beliefs and values.

I can say that I've now gone from an initial feeling of being upset to one that is more calm and concerned, because now I'm looking at this from different angles thanks to everyone here giving me some things to slow down and think about. Also, as my son pointed out and made me realize, it may be ok for the other students, it's just not for him. He seems to respect the fact that each of them should be able to decide on their own, and I can respect that as well. I just hadn't though of it that way until he said it.

As far as the curriculum, taking the above into mind, it doesn't matter if it's based on Spain, Mexico, Venezuela, Columbia, or any other country with a spanish language. It's about personal beliefs and convictions.

 

[redneckmedic]

Maybe your son can be refreshing, when called upon he can recite in English then give his convictions about being a patriot in spanish!

 

[stilllearning09]

I don't know what to offer as an alternative, but I haven't researched possible alternatives yet. I do think doing that would be a good idea, as it would hopefully show the teacher that it's not a personal attack and that it really is against his beliefs and values.

I can say that I've now gone from an initial feeling of being upset to one that is more calm and concerned, because now I'm looking at this from different angles thanks to everyone here giving me some things to slow down and think about. Also, as my son pointed out and made me realize, it may be ok for the other students, it's just not for him. He seems to respect the fact that each of them should be able to decide on their own, and I can respect that as well. I just hadn't though of it that way until he said it.

As far as the curriculum, taking the above into mind, it doesn't matter if it's based on Spain, Mexico, Venezuela, Columbia, or any other country with a spanish language. It's about personal beliefs and convictions.

I think when you speak with the teacher and start by explaining that it is not about their teaching style, but about your son's personal beliefs, the teacher will understand. I hope you will go to the teacher first. No one likes a complainer going over their head. Then, if necessary, talk to the councelor, vice Principal, etc.
Your son isn't refusing to do the work, and hopefully, the teacher will recognize that.
Honestly, if you came to me with this issue, I would think finding a resonable compromise would be very easy.

The teacher is trying to place the language in usable context. Here are some suggestions: Have him translate a recipe; translate directions to putting something together, or take something apart, how to fold a flag, ( or how to clean a weapon!!), directions to or from someplace. These are just some of the many suggestions off the top of my head.

It sounds like you've got a great kid and have taught him well. Being a teenager, ( and mine were headstrong when they thought they were right), you might have to talk with him that's it's not about compromising your beliefs, but having to compromise to complete the assignment.
I wish you luck and let us know how it turns out!

 

[Bill of Rights]

I scanned most of these responses, so please excuse if this has all already been said.

1) Your son is an 8th grader, making him... what, 14 or so?
2) You are an involved, caring parent.
3) What has he come to you seeking? Advice or help?

If he wants advice, as you seem to, I'd say HE should go in on Monday and see his Spanish teacher, maybe even ask for an appointment with him/her before or after school. Outline his concerns and ask for the teacher's intent and perspective. Once he has his facts straight as to why this is to be done, he gets to choose if he wants to either:

• comply, finding it to be something he can agree to do,
• refuse to comply and take the consequences, whether a reduced grade/suspension/whatever,
• take it a step higher, to the principal, or
• bring it back to you to handle for him (if he feels he's in over his head)

If he's not comfortable going to the teacher on Monday (I get the feeling this is not the case), he can, of course, ask you to do it... but I think that he'll get FAR more out of it by addressing this rationally and maturely for himself. The side benefit is that you, his father, get to positively CROW with pride over him.

Please come back and let us know how this turns out. Sounds like you have a young man there who has been well-taught how to handle himself.

Well done, sir.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Bill of Rights]

...
The teacher is trying to place the language in usable context. Here are some suggestions: Have him translate a recipe; translate directions to putting something together, or take something apart, how to fold a flag, ( or how to clean a weapon!!), directions to or from someplace. These are just some of the many suggestions off the top of my head.
...

While I would substitute the word "rifle", "pistol", or "shotgun", I fully agree with this thought. Rep added!

Blessings,
Bill

 

[MontereyC6]

I still think yal are looking too deep into this, what would yal have the students recite?...

Psalm 23 sounds good to me.

 

[jtmarine1911]

I agree with with RedNeckMedic on this one, it appears that you may be digging to deep.

I will say this, I want to give you a BIG Congrats on the way you raised you son and your concern on the situation!

I would casually speak with the teacher about it first, just you or you and your son, let you son tell his teacher how he feels. Get their opinion or view on it, they might not have even really thought about it.

I don't blame you for feeling how you do, I would more than likely feel the same way, I just hope that if I'm ever put in a spot like that I will be able to step back and say wait a minute maybe I am over reacting like you did.


As far as a previous post that mentioned American not having a National Language, I couldn't agree more. I have seen it many times before, and in many languages, but I have several times heard the Pledge spoken in spanish because they want to say the Pledge and had not learned English well enough to feel comfortable to say it in English with out someone thinking they were making fun.


And as far as German, where do you think the majority of the English language came from.

 

[Greg.B]

Well, my son received his paper today. It's simply the Pledge of Allegiance in spanish for them to read off of, and was handed out at the very end of class. He said he's going to ask her tomorrow if he can talk to her at the end of class and try to discuss with her how he feels about this. If that fails, I may be headed to speak to the teacher or counselor myself, but we'll see how it goes first. As soon as I have an update, I'll be sure to post it.

 

[eatsnopaste]

My father taught school for almost 20 years (ret. AF) and my wife has taught school for over 20 years and they are both thrilled with the idea of allowing an 8th grader to determine what curriculum he will or won't participate in. I will say that my father...conservative to say the least..said he does get a choice...do the work as instructed or fail, and he is old school so when my wife said she wouldn't want the hassle of the parents, he said...they always have the choice of changing classrooms or home schooling. Just the thoughts from two Gov. school teachers.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

I'm a little confused by all of this.

We don't sing "Frere Jacque" (frer-a-jzak-uh), the song, in English normally. It is a French song and we are normally taught to sing it in French.

When another country's National Anthem is played, if a person knows the words, they sing them in song's natural language.

Why would they recite the Pledge in another language other than to define the words in, in this case, Spanish?

 

[Bill of Rights]

I'm a little confused by all of this.

We don't sing "Frere Jacque" (frer-a-jzak-uh), the song, in English normally. It is a French song and we are normally taught to sing it in French.

When another country's National Anthem is played, if a person knows the words, they sing them in song's natural language.

Why would they recite the Pledge in another language other than to define the words in, in this case, Spanish?

Perhaps, as others have suggested, to give the students a frame of reference with something that is to them very familiar?

I recall in Spanish class learning to sing "Happy Birthday" in that language. At the approprate time of the year, we also learned the song "Noche de Pas", which was accompanied by the music of "Silent Night".

I can still do both but choose not to.

You're welcome.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Greg.B]

Not much of an update, but as of today my son hasn't asked to talk to her, and he simply stands and recites the pledge in English while the others do it in Spanish. The teacher hasn't made an issue of it, but he says he's farily certain that she's aware of it because she's 'locked eyes' with him a couple of times and walked and stood beside him once.

I suppose as long as she isn't making an issue of it, we'll let it ride. He's got an A in the class so far

 

[Turtle]

As long as its only for Spanish class heck it sound like a cool thing. This should be taught to Spanish speaking people along side the English version so the pledge of allegiance is the fist thing they learn in English. As it should be if they want to be an American citizen.

 

[Joe Williams]

As long as it's being said...and it all translates the same.

There ya go. Heck, at least they are saying the Pledge. As for saying it in Spanish... well, it is Spanish class!

 

[Bill of Rights]

As long as its only for Spanish class heck it sound like a cool thing. This should be taught to Spanish speaking people along side the English version so the pledge of allegiance is the fist thing they learn in English. As it should be if they want to be an American citizen.

I'm not sure I fully agree. "Indivisible", strikes me as a pretty big idea.. and pretty confining, too. I rather like the availability of secession, even if it never happens. I think it's the ultimate statement of "We do not agree.", and if done peacefully (you go your way and we'll go ours. Fare thee well and have a good life.) should not be opposed by any free people.

I'd like to see them learn the concepts contained in "The Star Spangled Banner". Really... just say, don't sing the words, and imagine yourself on a ship, in the pitch-black darkness, wondering if all the fighting and all the dying was a winning or losing cause. Imagine not knowing if the morning would bring you the knowledge of a victorious country or of your impending date with the court that would hang you by the neck until you were dead.

I'd like to see them learn the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, and understand what happened and why some of the essential constraints were so placed.

But then again, I'd like to see our own citizens by birth learn these things, too.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Pale Rider]

The biggest thing that bothers me is that my son doesn't WANT to say the Pledge in spanish. I've given him my permission to not do so if he feels uncomfortable with it. As I said in my original post, he would either say the Pledge in english, or say nothing at all. Those suggestions came from him, and I respect them.

What about all the hispanic kids who don't WANT to say it in english every morning? Why is it against your sons beliefs? Those are some pretty "intense" beliefs for a 14 yr old. If he came home and said he wanted to burn the flag because those were his beliefs I would guess you wouldn't support that regardless of how strongly he felt it should be done. I would say it's hard for you to side with the teacher because at least part of you agrees with you're son, and I'm not knocking his point of view. But it's our diversity that makes america what it is (i know bring on the smart-a$$ remarks about the economy crime rates whatever) We can't tell you how to raise your son, but most kids learn their core values at home...what did JR. Learn from you? Maybe pops could teach him that it's the fact that it's being said and not what language its in that makes it meaningful?