The Open Carry Argument

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

I do carry a second mag just in my jeans pocket, but honestly, multiple threats? Magazine failure? Real world situation here people. First of all I have had zero magazine failures between the three Sigs I've carried. That's why I carry a Sig, not a Taurus. Yes, it COULD happen, and I do have a backup mag, but if we are talking magazine failure, why would more rounds in the mag matter?

Multiple threats: ok. If I can't hit two people with 8 shots I need more help than a Sig P220 Compact. I need a flame thrower or something that I can mindlessly whip around in a panic. But seriously, I feel 8 rounds is plenty. If there are two people and I take down the first in three shots or less, do you think the second is going to keep coming or try to run or hide? What if it takes me 5 shots "in the heat of the moment" to hit the first person once? I still have 3 left for the next guy to decide if he wants to keep coming.

If there are three people or more, I'm probably going to think twice about getting involved in the first place depending on the situation (if i have that option aka in a store during a robbery and not being attacked personally) and my 7+1 buys me enough time to find the nearest exit. I don't carry to take on a mob, it's for self defense and the random attack, which in my opinion, is usually two people or less.

Crystal ball? I wish I had one. If you are able to predict the future and tell me what type of threats you are protecting yourself from in the future I would love to hear about it. I have no clue. I just know that 8 is enough for ME to feel confident. I spend enough time at the range and put hundreds of rounds through my pistols and rifles a month to feel confident with 8 plus 7 in my pocket. Not just aim and slow shoot. Pulling from the hip, sitting, one handed, changing mags, etc etc. I don't just shoot, I practice. P220 compact is the perfect gun for ME because the .45 caliber is reliable to me, and the P220 is the best thing IMO that uses it because it's comfortable and accurate and reliable.

Hope I don't offend anyone if I respond harshly. Not my intent. i love the convo and definitely love the questions and challenges. I don't have all the answers, and I love to learn and hear other peoples opinions. Thats why I share mine so we all can be better equipped for any situation. I haven't been in any real world situations which is part of why I am here, to hear and learn from people who have!

No offense taken. I just didn't understand that when you said you only carried 8 rounds and that would be plenty that actually meant 15 rounds.

Don't sell yourself short.

 

[SIGnature45]

I guess I was referring to the comment about the user choosing caliber based on magazine capacity. If you didn't have a second magazine, or want to carry one, 8 is usually still enough. Thank you for clarifying though, you are right. 15 on hand, 8 readily available

 

[SIGnature45]

I grew up a bit and stopped worrying what people would think of me when I'm doing something legal.

Walking down the middle of the road with an assault rifle is legal. Carry one in each hand and put a handgun on each hip, all legal. Get the proper permit and throw a machine gun in the back of your pickup. It can be legal. Just because it's legal does it mean it's an intelligent idea, rational and appropriate? That other people wouldn't question it, or feel threatened or uncomfortable by it? I respect the law, but just because it's legal doesn't mean I'm going to let the government who makes the laws allow me to do dumb things. I grew up when I stopped doing everything that is allowed by the law and started thinking like a grown up.

 

[mk2ja]

I've considered starting going for runs carrying an AR-15.

Somebody suggested it to me in a thread I posted years ago about carrying while jogging, and it's honestly been in my head ever since!

Actually if you carry at high port you will be building upper body and arm strength while you jog. Of course this might generate a MWAG call or two! Run faster!!

ETA - for people who don't know: when somebody quotes a post, you see that little blue arrow after their username where it says "originally posted by Vince49"… click the little blue arrow to be taken directly to that post in its original thread.

 

[actaeon277]

Walking down the middle of the road with an assault rifle is legal. Carry one in each hand and put a handgun on each hip, all legal. Get the proper permit and throw a machine gun in the back of your pickup. It can be legal. Just because it's legal does it mean it's an intelligent idea, rational and appropriate? That other people wouldn't question it, or feel threatened or uncomfortable by it? I respect the law, but just because it's legal doesn't mean I'm going to let the government who makes the laws allow me to do dumb things. I grew up when I stopped doing everything that is allowed by the law and started thinking like a grown up.

Feel free to OC/CC/JFC, tape it to your forehead, whatever. I don't really care. And I'm not sure why you are so concerned.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Feel free to OC/CC/JFC, tape it to your forehead, whatever. I don't really care. And I'm not sure why you are so concerned.

He is concerned because you're doing it wrong. Why can't you see that?

Just do like he says and you'll be fine...and a much better person, to boot.

Get with it, man!

ETA: You'll also be the first one shot by the bad guys.

 

[DMBFan]

I don't carry on my person usually, unless I'm around the house or lake. Meth head city around my house. However, I always keep one in reach in my truck. XDM40 with 17 in it, extra mag fully loaded next to it, and an extra box packed away right beneath it. Winchester Rangers are what I keep in it and shoot.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Since this thread is the OC/CC debate thread, I think you might be looking for the DC (Don't Carry) debate thread.

to

 

[Dead Duck]

Walking down the middle of the road with an assault rifle is legal. Carry one in each hand and put a handgun on each hip, all legal. Get the proper permit and throw a machine gun in the back of your pickup. It can be legal. Just because it's legal does it mean it's an intelligent idea, rational and appropriate? That other people wouldn't question it, or feel threatened or uncomfortable by it? I respect the law, but just because it's legal doesn't mean I'm going to let the government who makes the laws allow me to do dumb things. I grew up when I stopped doing everything that is allowed by the law and started thinking like a grown up.

You my friend are missing out on the spice of life.
Stop being a stick in the mud and enjoy life to the fullest. Don't cater to what the Sheeple might think.

Get out of the recliner, take off your red plaid suit vest and put down that pipe.
Now strap on your guns and take the family out for some ice-cream. You don't want to end up being an old fuddy-duddy like your uncle, do you?

Radical Free-Thinkers are the "Norm" when the rest are just Sheeple.

 

[richieray]

i couldn't agree more it would be better to carry open, so that criminals could see to just avoid you. Let the gun grabbers look defenseless.

 

[SIGnature45]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I love discussion and debates! Not trying to tell anyone they are wrong or right. Just wasn't sure "because its legal" is a legit reason that's all.

 

[SIGnature45]

You my friend are missing out on the spice of life.
Stop being a stick in the mud and enjoy life to the fullest. Don't cater to what the Sheeple might think.

Get out of the recliner, take off your red plaid suit vest and put down that pipe.
Now strap on your guns and take the family out for some ice-cream. You don't want to end up being an old fuddy-duddy like your uncle, do you?

Radical Free-Thinkers are the "Norm" when the rest are just Sheeple.

Open carry is the spice of life? I'm an air traffic controller, I have enough spice at my job. I prefer my off days to be spice free (unless I'm doing some aerobatic flying).

Oh, and what's wrong with red plaid suit vests!!??? ...haters gonna hate

 

[Bunnykid68]

I've considered starting going for runs carrying an AR-15.

Somebody suggested it to me in a thread I posted years ago about carrying while jogging, and it's honestly been in my head ever since!

You can jog over to my house and say hi, that always works out well here

 

[bsnyder413]

any suggestions on what to tell leo's that harrass you for open carry?

 

[eldirector]

any suggestions on what to tell leo's that harrass you for open carry?

Am I being detained? No? Thanks! Have a great day.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

any suggestions on what to tell leo's that harrass you for open carry?

Hand them one of Guy A. Relford's cards and ask how far they want to take the harassment.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

any suggestions on what to tell leo's that harrass you for open carry?

Thank them for their opinion and go about your business.

 

[ATM]

Thank them for their opinion and go about your business.

And if that is not sufficient to end the harassment, tell them to go pound sand.

 

[Aaron1776]

Indeed

I would generally agree with the article outside of a few minor points. First, you don't really "lose" just because you shot a criminal. I hear this "it'll change your life" argument all of the time, and honestly that's not neccessarily true. The instant you were attacked, your life changed. Period. Just like the instant you woke up this morning, your life changed because today is a new day. It's simply a turn of events, and if a BG attacks you and you kill him first, then good on you! You get to continuing having your life changed every day!!!
Can it be difficult, stress inducing, and painful? Sure.
Will it change your personality? Maybe. Depends on who you are and how you let it effect you. I work in an ER and see people die all of the time. I'm still the same guy I always was. My cousin went off and killed men in war and came back the same guy he always was. Other people witness death or cause death and are "changed" by it....mostly because they don't deal with it in a healthy manner.
As for "surprise" being exclusively a defensive tactic, that's plainly not true. The best way to end an attack is to ambush the attackers when they are marching towards your turf and mow them all down before they can react. However, being concealed doesn't just confer "surprise", it greatly reduces your reaction time. Thus it's a "surprise" that you're armed but it's a useless surprise because you haven't ambushed them. The kind of surprise you want to give a bad guy is when they're trying to gang rape some girl and you come around the corner with a .45.
One final note concerning open carry and citizens response. I used to exclusively CC because I didn't want to make the pansy suburbanites in my life uneasy. However, I figured out later that when your CC weapon gets exposed (and eventually it will for one reason or another) everyone freaks out because you were trying to hide a gun. Ironically, if you just saunter in with a gun openly on your hip like you own the place, everyone is calm. Why? Because they assumed that if you're hiding a weapon you're up to no good. If you're openly carrying a weapon then either you're a cop or someone who is at leased licensed to do so and is thus trust worthy. Why else would you be so brazen about it?
I OC on the regular now unless I'm doing some activity where CCing a smaller firearm would be less restrictive (like dancing).

 

[Boost Lee]

I would generally agree with the article outside of a few minor points. First, you don't really "lose" just because you shot a criminal. I hear this "it'll change your life" argument all of the time, and honestly that's not neccessarily true. The instant you were attacked, your life changed. Period. Just like the instant you woke up this morning, your life changed because today is a new day. It's simply a turn of events, and if a BG attacks you and you kill him first, then good on you! You get to continuing having your life changed every day!!!
Can it be difficult, stress inducing, and painful? Sure.
Will it change your personality? Maybe. Depends on who you are and how you let it effect you. I work in an ER and see people die all of the time. I'm still the same guy I always was. My cousin went off and killed men in war and came back the same guy he always was. Other people witness death or cause death and are "changed" by it....mostly because they don't deal with it in a healthy manner.
As for "surprise" being exclusively a defensive tactic, that's plainly not true. The best way to end an attack is to ambush the attackers when they are marching towards your turf and mow them all down before they can react. However, being concealed doesn't just confer "surprise", it greatly reduces your reaction time. Thus it's a "surprise" that you're armed but it's a useless surprise because you haven't ambushed them. The kind of surprise you want to give a bad guy is when they're trying to gang rape some girl and you come around the corner with a .45.
One final note concerning open carry and citizens response. I used to exclusively CC because I didn't want to make the pansy suburbanites in my life uneasy. However, I figured out later that when your CC weapon gets exposed (and eventually it will for one reason or another) everyone freaks out because you were trying to hide a gun. Ironically, if you just saunter in with a gun openly on your hip like you own the place, everyone is calm. Why? Because they assumed that if you're hiding a weapon you're up to no good. If you're openly carrying a weapon then either you're a cop or someone who is at leased licensed to do so and is thus trust worthy. Why else would you be so brazen about it?
I OC on the regular now unless I'm doing some activity where CCing a smaller firearm would be less restrictive (like dancing).

Great post. Some of the CC-only folk might pick and choose what they tend to disagree with in parts of your post,
but for the most part, you've hit it head on with how I feel about the subject. (Repped for that).
Also, I was also an exclusive CC'er but after realizing that the general public is rare to react foolishly to seeing a gun properly
holstered on the hip of a person, Carrying openly is in the back of my mind anymore; not to mention it's more comfortable.
I carry regularly every single day every where I can legally go and have never had a bad experience or conversation.