The Open Carry Argument

[Titanium_Frost]

Explain. Using "the terms thereof" does not mean concealed only. If that were true, I'd be able to carry in IN schools with my UT permit.

The issue is not about out of state CCWs it is about calling our Indiana LTCH a CCW. It is not and it does not serve the same function as one. Incorrectly calling an Indiana LTCH a "Concealed Permit"leads people to incorrectly assume one must conceal in Indiana. This is a problem when it comes to the police who harass OCers when it is in fact perfectly legal in Indiana.

I also think you are mistaken with your "school" comment. In Indiana colleges are not "schools" and therefore they are legal to carry in. They may have policies against them though.

 

[Double T]

My license says I can carry it, it does not specify how.

乚十C计

 

[protias]

The issue is not about out of state CCWs it is about calling our Indiana LTCH a CCW. It is not and it does not serve the same function as one. Incorrectly calling an Indiana LTCH a "Concealed Permit"leads people to incorrectly assume one must conceal in Indiana. This is a problem when it comes to the police who harass OCers when it is in fact perfectly legal in Indiana.

I also think you are mistaken with your "school" comment. In Indiana colleges are not "schools" and therefore they are legal to carry in. They may have policies against them though.

My point was, if someone is going to bring up carrying to what your permit/license says, then the state you are visiting (Indiana), its laws do not affect you. If I'm in UT, I can carry inside a 1-12 school, however, that is not true in IN. I still have to abide by IN state law. One could almost stretch that meaning for those states who do not require a permit/license to carry (AK, AZ, VT, and WY) that they can carry in IN with no permit/license. Again, that presumption is false because one needs to have a stupid piece of paper saying they can carry in order to carry in IN.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

My point was, if someone is going to bring up carrying to what your permit/license says, then the state you are visiting (Indiana), its laws do not affect you. If I'm in UT, I can carry inside a 1-12 school, however, that is not true in IN. I still have to abide by IN state law. One could almost stretch that meaning for those states who do not require a permit/license to carry (AK, AZ, VT, and WY) that they can carry in IN with no permit/license. Again, that presumption is false because one needs to have a stupid piece of paper saying they can carry in order to carry in IN.

Which is a point that no one was making before you brought it up. You misunderstood what he meant by that statement.

 

[thompal]

It is a LTCH. I guess I always figured it was a "CCW" since I was told by a range employee that concealed is the "standard form of carry" in Indiana. Is there really a difference? Would it only matter if a law came into effect that prohibited/required one form of carry or the other?

Does having a CCW limit you to only being allowed to carry concealed?

That's a trick question!!

The correct answer is, of course, that a "Conceal Carry Weapon" paper would only "allow" you to carry concealed.

However, Indiana has no such paper anymore. It's just a "License To Carry Handgun," and you are free to carry it any way you please.

 

[lovemachine]

Ok, so you admit there is a problem. You recognize what the problem is. And yet you are not going to do anything to help fix that problem.

That just doesn't make sense to me.

I know there is more of a chance of an OC'er getting harassed than a CC'er. But the CC'er also has a chance of being harassed if his shirt rides up.

I don't think it's right. I do think people should be able to OC without being bothered. And I do realize there's pretty much only one way to change that. Open Carry.

Myself, I don't see anything wrong with OCing. I've done it. And secretly liked it. But, CC is just my preferred method. Even if OC was more, acceptable, in our community, (when I say more acceptable, I mean less people freakin', less harassment), I'll probably still CC.
Maybe. Possibly.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I know there is more of a chance of an OC'er getting harassed than a CC'er. But the CC'er also has a chance of being harassed if his shirt rides up.

I don't think it's right. I do think people should be able to OC without being bothered. And I do realize there's pretty much only one way to change that. Open Carry.

Myself, I don't see anything wrong with OCing. I've done it. And secretly liked it. But, CC is just my preferred method. Even if OC was more, acceptable, in our community, (when I say more acceptable, I mean less people freakin', less harassment), I'll probably still CC.
Maybe. Possibly.

There are other ways of educating the sheep. OC is IMO the most direct and probably the most effective but there are plenty of people who CC that help our rights overall. What the other guy said was that he was "unwilling to educate them."

Write letters to the paper. Post on blogs. Join Pro 2nd Amendment groups or rallies. Talk to your friends and family. Go to cop functions and pass out information leaflets, speak at a political rally, go to a city council meeting.

All of the things I listed will help our cause and educate others on OC and our rights as a whole. None of it requires actually OCing.

ETA: Don't forget wearing your OC/CC shirt!

 

[The Glockantuan]

The issue is not about out of state CCWs it is about calling our Indiana LTCH a CCW. It is not and it does not serve the same function as one. Incorrectly calling an Indiana LTCH a "Concealed Permit"leads people to incorrectly assume one must conceal in Indiana. This is a problem when it comes to the police who harass OCers when it is in fact perfectly legal in Indiana.

This is precisely where I have been mislead since I first started looking in to obtaining my permit last fall. Most people [everyone, pretty much] that I talked to always gave me the impression that it was a concealed carry permit. Not friends that already had theirs, nor the local and state agencies I visited to submit my prints-they never gave me a different impression nor did they correct me when I *probably* referred to it as a "CCW".

Thanks for clearing up my confusion.

 

[Glock22-27]

I have OP since the day I got my LTCH and don't plan on stopping unless I'm going somewhere where it's just not worth the hassle. Other than that I will be exercising my rights pretty often and trying to inform ppl who I do encounter about the facts on what's actually allowed and to not be freaking alarmed when you see a gun. I don't get scared when I see the police why would you when you see a civilian with a firearm? Same thing except he has a badge....

 

[thompal]

There are other ways of educating the sheep. OC is IMO the most direct and probably the most effective but there are plenty of people who CC that help our rights overall. What the other guy said was that he was "unwilling to educate them."

Write letters to the paper. Post on blogs. Join Pro 2nd Amendment groups or rallies. Talk to your friends and family. Go to cop functions and pass out information leaflets, speak at a political rally, go to a city council meeting.

All of the things I listed will help our cause and educate others on OC and our rights as a whole. None of it requires actually OCing.

ETA: Don't forget wearing your OC/CC shirt!

I think that ALMOST everyone who owns a firearm, and anyone who carries in any manner is a help to understanding our rights.

I say "almost" because there are some gunowners who firmly believe that the 2nd Amendment is all about hunting rifles, and trap shooting. They honestly believe that anyone who wants to own an EBR is a wacko.

There are people who CC daily who understand the need for self-defense, and may even understand the purpose of the 2nd Amendment, who then spout how anyone who wants to OC is a "hothead" who merely wants to walk down the street "spewing hot lead" at anyone who moves.

These people, in my opinion, are as ignorant and hoplophobic as the HCI people, and in fact, share many of the same fears and (purposeful?) misunderstandings.

I have no use for either group.

 

[Roadie]

I have OP since the day I got my LTCH and don't plan on stopping unless I'm going somewhere where it's just not worth the hassle. Other than that I will be exercising my rights pretty often and trying to inform ppl who I do encounter about the facts on what's actually allowed and to not be freaking alarmed when you see a gun. I don't get scared when I see the police why would you when you see a civilian with a firearm? Same thing except he has a badge....

You can have a badge too!

 

[13Hollow Points]

This ain't Rome, and I ain't Italian...
So I'll OC and Deter Crime instead of blending in with the Sheeple...

Just Saying...

That is what I want, a criminal knowing I have a weapon and targeting me first.

 

[Roadie]

That is what I want, a criminal knowing I have a weapon and targeting me first.

Could you please post a link to this actually happening? Thanks, I'll wait here..

 

[DanO]

I found several flaws in the OP argument. That said, go ahead and OC, I don't care. It's not the gun on your hip that discourages attackers, it is your overall demeanor, tactics and awareness that sets a predator's alarm bell off.

 

[Double T]

 

[jeremy]

That is what I want, a criminal knowing I have a weapon and targeting me first.

 

[13Hollow Points]

Could you please post a link to this actually happening? Thanks, I'll wait here..

Let's see a link of OC deterring a crime?? In the Marines we taught the "element of surprise" Once I OC the surprise is gone.

 

[jeremy]

Let's see a link of OC deterring a crime??

And give up my element of Surprise...

In the Marines we taught the "element of surprise" Once I OC the surprise is gone.

There is no Element of Surprise to CC. There are tons of tells that will alert a person to the fact that someone is CC'ing...

 

[MagicKev]

Let's see a link of OC deterring a crime?? In the Marines we taught the "element of surprise" Once I OC the surprise is gone.

I assume you mean besides the link where the bad guys sent a scout into a restaurant only to come back out and so "let's skip this one, there are two armed patrons in there." Only to be arrested just moments later and he confessed all the above?

In the Marines do the Military Police carry concealed? Do MOST security officers at banks wear plain clothes?

And next time you try to just reverse the question...why not answer it first? Or did you learn that from a politician?

 

[protias]

Let's see a link of OC deterring a crime?? In the Marines we taught the "element of surprise" Once I OC the surprise is gone.

Open carry deters armed robbery in Kennesaw - Atlanta gun rights | Examiner.com