The Open Carry Argument

[Titanium_Frost]

Actually this will probably be my last post on this topic. TF .. I just don't want to argue about it. I'm not gonna change any minds. We feel the way we do and it's ok to disagree. I'll read the posts occasionally and try to keep an open mind. Won't be easy lol.

Damn.


I usually try to at least see the other side in a well made argument even if I KNOW I won't agree with it. IT has given me lots of useful insights into ideas that would normally be beyond myself.

So if you don't want to have a full on argument about it I will just state my case in its entirety. Its pretty simple.

1. Political. I OC as a political statement.

2. Easy. It is very easy to OC, comfortable, quick.

3. Draw speed. The exact reason I can't OC in IDPA is WHY I want that advantage in real life. It is hands down quicker to access it if I ever needed it.

4. Deterrent. Who wants to do harm to someone who can obviously defend themselves?

5. Education. By OCing a talk to gun owners and non gun owners every week and I have great conversations with them about our rights in America and the need for personal responsibility for our own protection.

6. Exercise our rights. If you don't use them, you lose them.

 

[Hayseed_40]

I won't even bother trying to find a case of a concealed carrier who lost their life because they lacked the tactical advantages of deterrence or draw speed or they just plain fumbled it in their shirt tail. Those probably never happen.

Do not be too hard on yourself and say "never happen" - we will just say "do not happen as much as CC"...

 

[Hayseed_40]

This argument is getting boring - can we talk about the sexy bacon again...

 

[SMHurt]

Ok .... I win!

 

[Hayseed_40]

Ok .... I win!

In this thread - nobody wins.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Ok .... I win!

Maybe you CHEAT but you havent won **** yet! I thought we weren't arguing???





OK... "Tactical advantage" only applies to an attacker, not a defender. Thats why criminals CC and cops OC... Most citizens who CC only do so because they are afraid of what people would say or they don't want to be harassed by cops or maybe they just don't like talking to people.

I enjoy talking to people, I'm not afraid of cops and I never have really cared about what other people think.

 

[SMHurt]

Ok ... you win!

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Ok ... you win!

 

[jeremy]

How about we quit using the Word Tactical for a start.

Next lets talk advantages;
CC, concealment
OC, quicker and easier to put in use, generally considered more comfortable

Based on just these observations, OC sounds like the better option for ME. How you carry I give less than 2 farts in a Hurricane, just be quite and quit mouthing off about how if someone does not carry in YOUR chosen manner they are idiots...

 

[thompal]

The Richmond teenager also is accused of fatally shooting Pierre Walter "Pete" Cosby hours later in an attempted robbery in the Oak Grove neighborhood in South Richmond. Smith, who was arrested Monday and charged in last week's two killings, was convicted in 2010 of malicious wounding, grand larceny and burglary, according to court papers filed in Richmond Juvenile and Domestic Relations District Court. Tyee Marquel Hamiel, another 16-year-old Richmonder, also faces charges in Tyler's killing but not in Cosby's. Hamiel's criminal history includes convictions in 2007 of grand larceny and malicious wounding, according to court records.

Smith and Hamiel also were convicted of attempted grand larceny on the same day in August of this year, the records show.

[SNIP]

Johnson, speaking generally about juvenile cases, said it is rare in Richmond for a juvenile to be sent to detention after his or her case is adjudicated. "Our goal is to try to get through to these kids before they become adults so we don't automatically lock them up every time they do something wrong,"

I quoted these parts, because I wondered if readers here, in their quest to defend or condemn OC might have skimmed over it.

The apparent shooter in this situation was CONVICTED of several felonies in 2010, and were convicted AGAIN of a different crime in August of THIS YEAR, and yet was out walking around in November.

The judge says it is rare to jail juveniles after conviction.

I would say that the PRIMARY point of failure in this situation wasn't the OCer's, but rather the Richmond judicial system. This person should NEVER have been on the street to begin with.

 

[mk2ja]

I quoted these parts, because I wondered if readers here, in their quest to defend or condemn OC might have skimmed over it.

The apparent shooter in this situation was CONVICTED of several felonies in 2010, and were convicted AGAIN of a different crime in August of THIS YEAR, and yet was out walking around in November.

The judge says it is rare to jail juveniles after conviction.

I would say that the PRIMARY point of failure in this situation wasn't the OCer's, but rather the Richmond judicial system. This person should NEVER have been on the street to begin with.

QFT.

Somebody rep him.

 

[iChokePeople]

I would say that the PRIMARY point of failure in this situation wasn't the OCer's, but rather the Richmond judicial system. This person should NEVER have been on the street to begin with.

Valid, but there will ALWAYS be criminals and dirtbags on the street. If your choices don't take that into account, you have failed.

 

[Hayseed_40]

The primary point of failure was the dirty butt and his decision to do what he did. It is not the system, OC'er, time of day, mother not giving him love, etc. The only other thing that could share some of the blame is ATM. He may have lashing out at OC'ers due to ATM's arguments. Just sayin'

 

[Hoosierdood]

The primary point of failure was the dirty butt and his decision to do what he did. It is not the system, OC'er, time of day, mother not giving him love, etc. The only other thing that could share some of the blame is ATM. He may have lashing out at OC'ers due to ATM's arguments. Just sayin'

ATM does have a way of bringing out the worst in people.

 

[jgreiner]

I quoted these parts, because I wondered if readers here, in their quest to defend or condemn OC might have skimmed over it.

The apparent shooter in this situation was CONVICTED of several felonies in 2010, and were convicted AGAIN of a different crime in August of THIS YEAR, and yet was out walking around in November.

The judge says it is rare to jail juveniles after conviction.

I would say that the PRIMARY point of failure in this situation wasn't the OCer's, but rather the Richmond judicial system. This person should NEVER have been on the street to begin with.

Skidmore Missouri had that happen back in the 1980's with a fella named McElroy. (I was a college student near there at the time). City residents got so fed up with the legal system and his bullying, that they shot him dead on main street at lunchtime. Hundreds of witnesses, a number of guns used, but the FBI could never find out who shot him.

It was a made for TV movie, they changed the names of the the town and the people, but it was the same story. Brian Dennehey played McElroy.

 

[ATM]

...The only other thing that could share some of the blame is ATM. He may have lashing out at OC'ers due to ATM's arguments. Just sayin'

ATM does have a way of bringing out the worst in people.

If only my superpowers could have been used for good...


WHYYYYYYYY?!?!

 

[Hayseed_40]

ATM does have a way of bringing out the worst in people.

Yes, if you ever snap and do something, just show the jury his threads on INGO and they will excuse your behaviour.

"Your Honor, I was just trying to please ATM by OC'ing but it is never good enough for him."

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Anyone know why Hoosierdood is now a "shooter?"

 

[Bunnykid68]

Anyone know why Hoosierdood is now a "shooter?"

Didnt even notice that

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Didnt even notice that

I told him one day all those pictures were going to catch up to him!

Hope its only a Temp...