The official Status update thread part 4

[Suprtek]

Its too easy when I talk to myself.

 

[tyler34]

where's cru with the sweet photos?

 

[Suprtek]

where's cru with the sweet photos?

 

[RelicHound]

#1 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


INGunOwners FAQs (sticky)
Other contributions to the FAQ + Answers to help pull this together would be much appreciated. Please note them in this thread (https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera..._gun_faqs.html) and I'll update or add the questions/answers. Thanks!!

This is obviously a "living document." I broke out the questions into "categories" and made them separate posts for easier reference. I hope this helps. Please don't hesitate to poke me if something needs to move or another category should be added, and *definitely* correct me if I'm completely (or even partially) wrong about something.

Where can I find a list of INGO's forum rules?
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/introd...e_posting.html


Table of Contents for this thread:
About the LTCH (License to Carry a Handgun): https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post187167

About Carrying Your Handgun: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post187168

About Guns (in General): https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post187170

About Women & Guns: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post187171

About Shooting with Other People: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post187172

About INGO: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post187173

About Getting Training: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post218810

About the INGO FAQ: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post483029

About Gun Shows: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post630600

About INGO Reputation Points: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post762873

About shipping a firearm: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...ml#post1324458

All About NFA: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...ml#post1761124

Obtaining your own Federal Firearms License (FFL): https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...ml#post1771317

Having trouble logging in: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...ml#post1773571

Or you might read the excellent PDF files that Kludge put together for his classes. You can find them all together here: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handgu...y_classes.html

And just in case that didn't answer your questions:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamstutz
You may just want to post a link to http://www.in.gov/isp/files/firearms_FAQ_02_08.pdf [The ISP Firearms FAQs]. It answers a lot of the questions I've been asked.
You might try that.

Or you might try this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by snojet
I thought this would help the community as a whole. I've read through many posts and some questions that people are asking are answered in this link that is provided below.
Legal Community Against Violence - Indiana

Recently I got this information in a printed form from the Carmel Police department when I applied and had an interview with the police chief for my LTCH permit.

Or you might try a copy of Bryan Ciyou's book Indiana Handgun Law. Read all three editions; they're excellent and worth reading.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/India...10804665644590


Or you might start a new thread in the appropriate forum and see what happens.
Last edited by spasmo; 03-30-2011 at 07:39.. Reason: Added FFL FAQ

12-21-2008 #2 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


About the LTCH (License to Carry a Handgun)
ABOUT THE LTCH:

This thread actually covers a wide range of questions about the LTCH in general (except how to apply for it):
*** https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...t_is_this.html

How do I apply for my LTCH?
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._for_ltch.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...ting_ltch.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/politi...ode_240_a.html

What's the difference between an LTCH and a CCW?
LTCH is a License to Carry Handgun. Concealed or open is not specified. The type of weapon is specified. This is the type of license/permit that Indiana offers to its residents. CCW is a Concealed Carry Weapon (permit). Concealed is specified. The type of weapon is not specified (although it is usually restricted to certain types). Indiana does NOT offer this type of license/permit.


What the heck IS an LTCH?
LTCH is a License to Carry Handgun. This is the type of license/permit that Indiana offers to its residents. It is ONLY legal to carry a handgun if you have a valid LTCH, with a very few exceptions to that rule in either direction. Also note that it's a license to carry a handgun. It's not an authorization for any other type of weapon (such as a switchblade, which is illegal to possess or carry in Indiana).

Two things to note:
1) If you do not have an LTCH, you can still buy a handgun and transport it back to your fixed place of business, or to your residence, or to/from a place of repair. The gun must be unloaded and in a secure wrapper (such as a locked hard-shelled case).
2) You cannot transport your handgun to your favorite range without an LTCH, even if the gun is in a secure wrapper, separated from the ammunition. Click here for a thread by a member who demonstrates that even if a police officer tells you it's ok, it's NOT ok:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...your_help.html

Also note this Indiana Code: Indiana Code 35-47-2
Quote:
IC 35-47-2-1
Carrying a handgun without a license or by person convicted of domestic battery
Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.
(b) Unless the person's right to possess a firearm has been restored under IC 35-47-4-7, a person who has been convicted of domestic battery under IC 35-42-2-1.3 may not possess or carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body in the person's dwelling or on the person's property or fixed place of business.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.326-1987, SEC.1; P.L.195-2003, SEC.6; P.L.98-2004, SEC.155; P.L.118-2007, SEC.35.
Quote:
IC 35-47-2-2
Excepted persons
Sec. 2. Section 1 of this chapter does not apply to:
(1) marshals;
(2) sheriffs;
(3) the commissioner of the department of correction or persons authorized by him in writing to carry firearms;
(4) judicial officers;
(5) law enforcement officers;
(6) members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves while they are on duty;
(7) regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive such weapons from the United States or from this state who are at or are going to or from their place of assembly or target practice;
(8) employees of the United States duly authorized to carry handguns;
(9) employees of express companies when engaged in company business;
(10) any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms or the agent or representative of any such person having in his possession, using, or carrying a handgun in the usual or ordinary course of that business; or
(11) any person while carrying a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or to a place of repair or back to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or in moving from one dwelling or business to another.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.


Note NONE of this says anything about going to a range to practice except for #7 above, and that does NOT include the general populace.



How long does it take to get an LTCH?
As of May 2010, we're hearing reports of people receiving them in as little as 1 week (using the L-1 process and applying online). If you're stuck going into your local PD and doing everything manually, it's still a several week process. As of July 2010, the manual wait time appears to be about 12 weeks.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._ccw_wait.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._now_what.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...ml#post1042734

Indiana State Police Firearms Licensing Section: 317-232-8264

What is this L-1 process?
L-1 Identity Solutions is a third-party contracted by the State to perform the fingerprinting and background check. It's optional in many counties and not available yet in others. Combined with submitting your LTCH application online (in the available counties), this greatly speeds the process of receiving your pretty pink piece of paper.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...ch_online.html
Home - L-1 Identity Solutions


Should I get the Lifetime or the 4-year? Personal Protection or Target/Hunting?
Lifetime Personal Protection. Yes, it costs more to get the Lifetime rather thanthe 4-Year, but Indiana is currently the only state that offers it, and it saves you the hassle of having to remember to renew your license every four years. Go ahead and get the Personal Protection license rather than the Target/Hunting license. This gives you the option to carry it should you ever decide you want to, and on the off chance you "forget" to take it out of your car and somehow managed to get pulled over, your Personal Protection license clearly covers you. This is also a strong reason why your Significant Other and anyone else who may be driving your vehicles (children..?) should have a LTCH also.

Of note: While the Lifetime LTCH is usually recommended, those of you who are not IN residents the 4 year is the only one you can have. Also, the cost breaks even after what, three renewals? So if you don't plan on being here more than 12 years, perhaps the 4 year would be better.


When can I renew my current license?
Within 365 days of your current license's expiration date and not before.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._lifetime.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/the_2n...s_now_law.html

Can I convert my current 4-year license to a Lifetime license?
Sorry, Charlie. You should have gotten the Lifetime when you had the chance. You'll have to wait until your current license is within the 365-day renewal period noted above before you can renew and choose the Lifetime option.

My license expired two months ago, but I reapplied for a new license yesterday. Can I still carry my gun?
No. If the application for renewal of an existing license is filed within thirty (30) days of its expiration, the existing license is automatically extended until the application for renewal is passed upon. You'll need to carry your application receipt along with your license until the renewal arrives. If you reapply after the license expired, (even if it's within 30 days), even the receipt does not allow you to carry legally. You must wait until your new license arrives.

Some tips once your LTCH arrives:
In this order:
1) Make copies. If you can, scan it and save it to your computer.
2) Store the original in your safe.
3) Sign each of your copies.
4) Laminate each of your copies.
5) Have one EVERYWHERE.
6) SIGN BEFORE YOU LAMINATE.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._was_told.html
One of our members, Printcraft, is offering free LTCH lamination to members of INGO: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...o_members.html

So am I really allowed to make a copy of my LTCH?
Technically... No. But you still may find this thread interesting. INGO member Cordex actually ASKED the people who should know!
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...mit_redux.html

Oops. I didn't make a copy of my LTCH, and I've managed to lose the one I have. Can I get a replacement?
Yes. You just need to request a duplicate from the ISP. At this time, it's a $20 replacement fee. When you get it, make copies.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...ment_ltch.html
ICPR: Home

What happens if I move?
You need to inform the Indiana State Police within 60 days of your address change. They won't send you a new license with your new address unless you also pay $20 for a new copy. Your old license will still be valid, provided you've notified the ISP of your address change. Here's a link to the form:
http://forms.in.gov/Download.aspx?id=6643
Or call the Indiana State Police Firearms Licensing Section at 317-232-8264.

How will I know that my address has been updated?
You won't. The ISP just updates their database. They will not notify you that they have done so, but you are free to call the Firearms Licensing Section to verify your address on file. You might as well just go ahead and spend the $20 on a new license at the time you update your address so you'll not only get a freshly-minted license (with your new address), but it will also serve as your notification that they've updated their records.

What happens to my Lifetime LTCH if I move out of state?
INGO member CountryBoy19 called the ISP and asked them. There are special provisions for military deployment as their residency may still technically be in Indiana, but for civilians, you notify the ISP of your new address and your license will be "deactivated". If you move back to Indiana, you can have it "re-activated" without going through the license process again.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...tml#post355104

I heard that the lifetime LTCH won't be available anymore. Is this true?
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. Doing away with the lifetime license would involve introducing and passing legislation to change the law. Currently, there are no bills in the State Legislature to amend the existing law. Whoever told you that it's going away doesn't know what they're talking about.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/politi...in_danger.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/politi...ry_permit.html

Someone should create a list of pertinent Indiana Codes that I can carry around in my wallet in case Something Bad happens!
Interesting you should mention that...
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._ic_codes.html
Last edited by Scutter01; 03-08-2011 at 17:13.. Reason: Updated info about moving

12-21-2008 #3 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


About Carrying Your Handgun
ABOUT CARRYING:


I have a handgun. What do I carry it in?
A holster. I recommend Raven Concealment Systems
Although, there are a plethora of threads on this topic, asked and answered by people much less biased than me:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...you_carry.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...b_holster.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/access...kholsters.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/access..._holsters.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/access...ruger_lcp.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/access...t_holster.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/access...gun_comps.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/access...lock_23_a.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/access..._pictures.html


Where am I allowed to carry in Indiana?
Assuming you have your LTCH...not schools (including churches with preschools), not most government buildings, not most Federal property, not most of Indy City Parks. Yes, you can carry in most state parks.

A more specific list of where you can NOT carry:
k-12 schools, property used for school functions
school buses
Head Start
preschools
private schools
riverboat casinos
airport sterile areas
shipping ports
State fairgrounds during State Fair
Post office (questionable, as it may not actually be Federal property)
Where prohibited by local ordinance, on gov't property

Some of these are not mandated by state statute, but are delegated. For example, there is no actual law prohibiting carry on riverboat casinos. However, there are laws delegating the authority to the Indiana Gaming Commission to define their own administrative rules. The IGC has significant "teeth" to enforce their administrative rules, including providing for criminal prosecution.


Without your LTCH, there is nowhere that you can carry legally. As always, there are a very few, very restrictive exceptions to this rule. However, that said, just in case it hasn't been made clear enough: you can NOT carry from your home to your favorite range (public or private) without your LTCH. The term "carry" encompasses not only on your person in a holster, but also in your car, truck, boat, plane, in a locked container separate from your ammunition.

IANAL.

Some threads:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...you_go_to.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...rohibited.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._downtown.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/the_2n..._to_carry.html

That last thread has this gem in post #29:
Quote:
Originally Posted by zebov
Without my LTCH...
"Can I carry it on me at the grocery?" NO!
"Can I carry it on me on the street?" NO!
"Can I carry it on me in my car?" NO!
"Can I have it in the car while going to the range?" NO!
"Can I have it in my car but not on my body in plain sight?" NO!
"Can I have it stowed in my car out of sight, like in my glovebox or something?" NO!
"Can I have it stowed in the trunk of my car?" NO!
"Can I have it stowed in the trunk of my car locked in a box?" NO!
"Can I have it stowed in the trunk of my car, field stripped, unloaded, with each piece locked in a separate hard container?" NO!
"Not even if I'm going to the range?" NO!
"What if I'm going to the range?" NO!
"Even if I'm going to the range to transact business?" NO!
"What about if I'm going to go shoot at the range?" NO!
"What about if I'm going to go to the range, but just to chat with people, not to shoot there?" NO!
"What if a police officer told me it was okay?" NO!
"What if I have my LTCH?" YES!

Solution: Get your LTCH
Click here for a thread by a member who demonstrates that even if a police officer tells you it's ok, it's NOT ok:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...your_help.html


Indiana Code clicky: Indiana Code 35-47-2
Quote:
IC 35-47-2-1
Carrying a handgun without a license or by person convicted of domestic battery
Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.
(b) Unless the person's right to possess a firearm has been restored under IC 35-47-4-7, a person who has been convicted of domestic battery under IC 35-42-2-1.3 may not possess or carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body in the person's dwelling or on the person's property or fixed place of business.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.326-1987, SEC.1; P.L.195-2003, SEC.6; P.L.98-2004, SEC.155; P.L.118-2007, SEC.35.
Quote:
IC 35-47-2-2
Excepted persons
Sec. 2. Section 1 of this chapter does not apply to:
(1) marshals;
(2) sheriffs;
(3) the commissioner of the department of correction or persons authorized by him in writing to carry firearms;
(4) judicial officers;
(5) law enforcement officers;
(6) members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves while they are on duty;
(7) regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive such weapons from the United States or from this state who are at or are going to or from their place of assembly or target practice;
(8) employees of the United States duly authorized to carry handguns;
(9) employees of express companies when engaged in company business;
(10) any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms or the agent or representative of any such person having in his possession, using, or carrying a handgun in the usual or ordinary course of that business; or
(11) any person while carrying a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or to a place of repair or back to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or in moving from one dwelling or business to another.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.


Note NONE of this says anything about going to a range to practice except for #7 above, and that does NOT include the general populace.


The list above doesn't mention bars. Does that mean I can carry in a bar? Am I allowed to have a drink while carrying?
Yes, there is no law that prohibits carrying while in a bar or while drinking. However, it is STRONGLY recommended that if you choose to carry in these situations that you absolutely know your limits. If you're a lightweight like me, leave it at home, leave it in the car, or bring an armed friend with you. If you know your reason does not leave you when you have a drink or six, then by all means, continue to carry and continue to respond with the understanding that pulling out your firearm is a last resort (as it should be when sober). Just be aware that if you are in a situation where you need to use your firearm after you have consumed alcohol, the alcohol consumption will likely go in the police report. While a clean, justified shoot may save you in a criminal case, the alcohol may go against you in a civil case. As always, IANAL. Please use your head when making this decision.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...tml#post879257

OK, wait. Up there it said something about schools. What about colleges and universities? Is it illegal to carry there?
The moderator team at INGO does not consist of any lawyers. With that fact in mind, we do have some basic concept of the English language and most of us have a fair command of its use. As such, this seems to be the relevant and applicable law:

Quote:
IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.

IC 35-41-1-24.7
"School property" defined
Sec. 24.7. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:
(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).

IC 20-18-2-16
"School corporation"
Sec. 16. (a) "School corporation", for purposes of this title (except IC 20-20-33, IC 20-26-1 through IC 20-26-5, IC 20-26-7, IC 20-30-8, and IC 20-43), means a public school corporation established by Indiana law. The term includes a:
(1) school city;
(2) school town;
(3) school township;
(4) consolidated school corporation;
(5) metropolitan school district;
(6) township school corporation;
(7) county school corporation;
(8) united school corporation; or
(9) community school corporation.
(b) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-26-1 through IC 20-26-5 and IC 20-26-7, has the meaning set forth in IC 20-26-2-4.
(c) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-20-33 and IC 20-30-8, includes a charter school (as defined in IC 20-24-1-4).
(d) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-43, has the meaning set forth in IC 20-43-1-23.
Colleges and universities do not seem to meet the criteria to be called "school property" according to the IC.
Also, if you will be/would like to carry on a college/university campus, there is an excellent organization trying to spread the word about carrying on campuses across the nation: Students for Concealed Carry on Campus - ConcealedCampus.com

So what if I don't have my properly issued and valid LTCH with me and I get stopped?
Fortunately, the law provides for this situation.
Quote:
IC 35-47-2-24
Indictment or information; defendant's burden to prove exemption or license; arrest, effect of production of valid license, or establishment of exemption
Sec. 24. (a) In an information or indictment brought for the enforcement of any provision of this chapter, it is not necessary to negate any exemption specified under this chapter, or to allege the absence of a license required under this chapter. The burden of proof is on the defendant to prove that he is exempt under section 2 of this chapter, or that he has a license as required under this chapter.
(b) Whenever a person who has been arrested or charged with a violation of section 1 of this chapter presents a valid license to the prosecuting attorney or establishes that he is exempt under section 2 of this chapter, any prosecution for a violation of section 1 of this chapter shall be dismissed immediately, and all records of an arrest or proceedings following arrest shall be destroyed immediately.
Note that you will probably still be arrested (although that is not a certainty), and if so, having your arrest record expunged is subject to all of the fun of a typical over-sized bureaucracy. In other words, it may take awhile. Possibly years.

If I take my gun apart, lock the parts all in separate boxes, stow them in the trunk away from the ammo, can I take my gun to the range (or anywhere else) if I don't have my LTCH yet?
No. A gun in parts is still a gun, and in your car is still carrying. Stop trying to find loopholes and just get your License, ya cheapskate.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...in_pieces.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsharmon7
You cannot transport it out to Pop's,
You'll be arrested by the cops.

You cannot transport it in a box,
Nor can you do it using locks.

You cannot transport it all in pieces,
Asking of this question never ceases.

You cannot carry it 'round the bend,
Nevermind what says your friend.

You cannot carry it when unloaded,
Your freedom will be eroded.

You cannot transport it in your trunk,
If you're caught you will be sunk.

If this desire you cannot sate,
The thing to do is simply wait!
What states have reciprocity with Indiana?
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._s_permit.html

I'm not an Indiana resident. Is my CCW/LTCH (resident or non-resident) permit valid in Indiana?
Indiana recognizes licenses from any state or foreign country as long as the holder is not an Indiana resident. Indiana residents must have an Indiana LTCH.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...te_permit.html

I'm moving to Indiana. How do I "establish residency"? (In other words, what act will make my permit from elsewhere no longer valid?)

Quote:
IC 9-13-2-78
Indiana resident
Sec. 78. "Indiana resident" refers to a person who is one (1) of the following:
(1) A person who has been living in Indiana for at least one hundred eighty-three (183) days during a calendar year and who has a legal residence in another state. However, the term does not include a person who has been living in Indiana for any of the following purposes:
(A) Attending a postsecondary educational institution.
(B) Serving on active duty in the armed forces of the United States.
(2) A person who is living in Indiana if the person has no other legal residence.

(3) A person who is registered to vote in Indiana.

(4) A person who has a child enrolled in an elementary or a secondary school located in Indiana.

(5) A person who has more than one-half (1/2) of the person's gross income (as defined in Section 61 of the Internal Revenue Code) derived from sources in Indiana using the provisions applicable to determining the source of adjusted gross income that are set forth in IC 6-3-2-2. However, a person who is considered a resident under this subdivision is not a resident if the person proves by a preponderance of the evidence that the person is not a resident under subdivisions (1) through (4).

(6) A person who:
(A) is enrolled as a student of a truck driver training school;
(B) has legal residence in another state but is living in Indiana temporarily for the express purpose of taking a course of study from the truck driver training school; and
(C) intends to return to the person's state of residence upon completion of the course of study of the truck driver training school.


How do I transport a gun across Illinois (or any other State where my Indiana License is not recognized)?
The Federal Peaceable Journey Statute allows you to transport a handgun through intervening states provided you may legally do so at both the start and end of your journey. For example, you can legally pass through Illinois on your way to Iowa provided you are legal in both Indiana and Iowa. It's been said that anywhere you actually stop (gas, food, etc.) may be considered your "destination," although others have said small stops such as gas and food are still considered "traveling through." That said, Illinois is hostile to gun owners and you may not be able to assert your rights under the statute until after you've been arrested and charged, especially in the Chicago area. Here is the relevant statute:

Quote:
Code of Federal Regulations

Title 18 > Part I > Chapter 44 > § 926a
§ 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms
Release date: 20050803
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any
political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from
transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any
lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any
other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation
the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily
accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle:
Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s
compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the
glove compartment or console.

As always, laws are subject to change, so please seek competent legal advice before your journey.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...hat_is_il.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._illinois.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...s_weekend.html

But what if I'm going TO Illinois, not just passing through? Since Illinois is my destination, the Federal Peaceable Journey Statute doesn't really apply, does it?
It's actually not as complicated as you think. Lock the firearm in a secure container, completely unloaded, but the ammunition CAN be in the same container (even loaded in a magazine... just don't have the mag loaded in the firearm!). Melensdad did some great explaining in this thread here:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...il_friday.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/the_2n...ck_answer.html

Concealed or open carry?
Yes. The Indiana LTCH does not specify whether a gun must be carried openly or concealed, therefore either manner is acceptable and is entirely your personal preference. There are many schools of thought on this, but either way is legal. There are certain areas west of Indianapolis where officials will tell you it is illegal to carry openly, but that is absolutely not true.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...n_hammond.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...pen_carry.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...pen_carry.html

How do I register my handgun or long gun?
Indiana does not have gun registration of any kind. You are not required to register either your handgun or your long gun with any agency.
Last edited by Scutter01; 02-17-2011 at 08:20.. Reason: Added Mel's explanation on driving to and through Illinois

12-21-2008 #4 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


About Guns (in General)
ABOUT GUNS:

Where do I register my guns?
You don't. There is no Indiana state or federal law that requires you to register any of your guns, with the exception of NFA items. If you can legally carry a firearm, chances are pretty good you can legally own a firearm. When you purchase a handgun from an FFL holder (several private citizens as well as every gun shop), you will have to fill out a form and pass a NICS check, which essentially checks to make sure you have no felonies or history of mental illness. If you purchase your firearm from a private individual without an FFL, this is considered a FTF (face-to-face) transaction, and legally requires no paperwork, although many insist it is prudent to give and/or receive a bill of sale (BoS) when doing this sort of transaction. Please note: if you intend to carry your newly purchased, completely unregistered handgun, even just to the range to practice with it, you are required to have a License to Carry a Handgun (LTCH). As always, IANAL. YMMV.

Which is better? Glock, SIG or HK? (All other manufacturers need not apply.)
SIG. But I'm biased. Actually, if you go based on popularity of carry, it's Glock of the 19 variety. /sigh
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handgu...ck_vs_sig.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handgu...e_handgun.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handgu...y_and_how.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handgu...ns_please.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handgu...f_defense.html

What is an NFA item?
Anything that is covered by the National Firearms Act of 1934, such as machine guns, suppressors (aka "silencers"), short-barreled rifles, etc.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/class_...nfa_faq_s.html


So about this Assault Weapon Ban...
Bringing up the AWB of 1994 is a bit of a hot topic around here, especially in light of the current political climate. You'll find dozens of posts where the AWB was brought up and ranted about for pages and pages and pages. Just to give you a taste, here's a thread where a new member brought it up just to "light a fire" so he could make an informed decision in voting for the presidential race.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/politi...be_banned.html


What is the best ammo to carry?
The kind that fits in your gun without blowing up your gun.
On calibers specifically: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._-_suarez.html

I was denied on my Form 4473 NICS check, but I haven't done anything to make me ineligible! Now what do I do?
When buying from a dealer as an Indiana resident, you will fill out BATFE Form 4473, which is the National Instant Check System. This is the form that the BATFE will use to do your instant background check to ensure that you are eligible to purchase a firearm. The dealer will provide this form and can answer any questions you have about filling it out.
Once you've completed the form, the dealer will call it in and receive either a "Pass", "Fail", or "Delay". If you pass, you can leave with your firearm as soon as you complete your transaction. If you receive a "Delay", the dealer must sit on the transaction until the BATFE returns a "Pass" or "Fail". The BATFE has 3 business days to respond. If, after 5 days, there is no response, the dealer may then assume "Pass" (although many will deny you the sale without an official "Pass"). Delays happen for many reasons and you should not be alarmed if you receive one. If your 4473 comes back "Fail" and you know that you have nothing in your history that precludes you from owning a firearm, you may submit a Voluntary Appeals Form (VAF) and receive a Unique Personal Identification Number (UPIN). This UPIN may be put on future Form 4473's to prevent any confusion or delays.

Here is the form for the VAF:
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/vafbrocheng.pdf

Also, here are a couple of other useful links from our forums:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...me_way_up.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...et_a_upin.html


Can I sell/purchase a gun out of state?
Handguns through an FFL only. Long guns may or may not be legal, depending on who you ask. USC18 Section 922 suggests even long guns must go through an FFL.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...ate_lines.html


Can I buy a handgun without having a valid LTCH?
Yes. An LTCH is not required to purchase a handgun or a long gun either from a dealer or in a private sale. However, there are tight restrictions on transporting without a license. Please see the rest of this FAQ for more information.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera..._permit-3.html


Where is a good gun shop?
There are lots of great gun shops all over the state. We even have a few that are Advertising Supporters right here on INGO! Support the shops that support your forum! There are many threads discussing each store. Check this sub-forum for reviews:
Local Gun Shops - INGunOwners
Also check out our Advertiser forums:
Support our Sponsors - INGunOwners

Also, here are several more useful links that might help.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/local_...et_sports.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/local_..._supplies.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/local_...adis_guns.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/local_..._-_thanks.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/local_..._firearms.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/local_...fight_but.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...gues_what.html
List of Indiana Gun Shops
Spreadsheet of Indiana Gun Shops
TomTom POI file of Indiana Gun Shops and Ranges


Where is a range close to me?
Applied Ballistics (Lafayette), Atterbury, Wilbur Wright, Pop's Guns, Riley Conservation Club, MCFG, HCFG, Martinsville, or Eagle Creek, to name a few, but there are lots more.
TomTom POI file of Indiana Gun Shops and Ranges

Oh, NO! Some scumbag stole my gun! Can INGO help get it back?
Well, you obviously need to report the theft to your local law enforcement agency, but we have a way to alert your fellow INGO members of the theft so that they can be on the lookout for it. PM a moderator with all of the information and it will be posted to the Official Firearm Theft Report Thread.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...to_report.html
Last edited by Scutter01; 03-15-2011 at 13:26.. Reason: Added NICS denial info

12-21-2008 #5 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


About Women and Guns
ABOUT WOMEN AND GUNS:

My [wife/sister/daughter/girlfriend/mom] [is afraid of/hates/won't talk about] guns. What do I do?
Don't expect a reasonable or quick turn to a firearms fanatic. It takes time, often in the category of "years," definitely not overnight. Ask her why she's afraid of guns. Show her yours if she's willing. Talk about why it's important to learn to defend yourself. This is really a very long discussion, but essentially, go slow, keep talking, don't push. Take an interest in something she enjoys to reciprocate.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/women_...d_of_guns.html

My [female] [needs/wants] her own gun. What should I get her?
Ask her. It needs to be her decision, not yours and not the shopkeeper's. Help her make an informed decision, but it needs to be her decision in the end. And remember: a .22 in the pocket is better than a .45 in the safe.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/women_...your_life.html

Is it possible to truly understand women?
No. Just accept that fact and move on. But, in case you are persistent, here are a few diagrams to nudge you in the right direction: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_...tml#post647601

Help! My wife just joined INGO!
Oddly enough, it does occasionally happen. In some cases, the wife actually joins BEFORE the husband. In either case, when the spouse joins the forum, it is necessary for the husband to celebrate with the purchase of a new firearm for the wife (even if the wife joined first), just so she'll have something to discuss on the forum. Just trust us. It will make your life easier.

I'm not married, but I've seen wimmins before. They're scary, but they have...you know..."curvy bits"...and...stuff, and they look like people I'd like to get to know a LOT better. Can you help me get a date?
Er....you might try coming out to an INGO event or ten. And take a shower first. Maybe put on some clean clothes. Seriously, pull yourself together, man, you've got Cheetohs in your hair.
INGO Events - INGunOwners
Last edited by Scutter01; 09-24-2010 at 05:36.. Reason: My wife just joined INGO

12-21-2008 #6 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


About Shooting With Other People
ABOUT SHOOTING WITH OTHER PEOPLE:

How do I get involved in USPSA?
Quick answer... PM rhino or obijohn.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/shooti...gue_-_act.html

United States Practical Shooting Association
indygunracers.com - home


How do I get involved in IDPA?
Quick answer... PM rhino or obijohn.

International Defensive Pistol Association
indygunracers.com - home


How do I get involved in an Appleseed shoot?
Quick answer.. PM techres or hawkhavn.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/politi...heir_code.html
The Appleseed Project
Appleseed - INGunOwners

What other shooting sports are there?
Check out the Shooting Sports section of the forum to learn more about shooting steel (MCFG has Friday Night Steel matches pretty regularly), skeet, trap, and bowling pin shoots!
Last edited by Scutter01; 03-25-2009 at 16:44.. Reason: Added Appleseed forum

12-21-2008 #7 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


About INGO
RANDOM INGO-ISMS:

Where can I find a list of INGO's forum rules?
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/introd...e_posting.html

Why do I have to have 50 "quality" posts to be able to send a PM to a member or to post in the Classifieds section of the forum? What is a "quality" post anyway?
This is really two separate questions, but they frequently get asked together, so it's a little easier to answer them together.

For the first question: the short answer is "to reduce spam." We created this forum to be a community of firearms enthusiasts in the state of Indiana. It is first and foremost a place where like-minded people can get together and chat about a topic that is relevant to them and that they are passionate about - firearms (of all types). We added the Classifieds section as a perk to our contributing members so that individuals could buy, sell or trade items (not necessarily firearms related) within the Indiana firearms community.

We do not intend for the Classifieds section to become another "Craigslist" or "eBay" for guns. We require 50 "quality" posts because many of our members do not like to do business, especially in regards to firearms, with people they do not know. Posting in other places in the forums can give members an idea of what kind of person you are (in general). You do not have to necessarily post about firearms. You can spend all of your time posting on the silly threads in the Break Room. The idea is to show us a little bit of your personality. You don't have to give us your life history. A small blood sample will suffice.

As far as "quality" of your posts goes, we just want to see something more than a "one-liner" in response to a thread. In some contexts, a "one-liner" is appropriate. For example, if the topic is "What do you carry?" a response of "G19, 3:00" is entirely acceptable. However, 50 "Welcome!" posts in the Intro & Greetings forum may not be construed that way when you yourself are brand new to the forum and then you subsequently head straight to the Classifieds section. In other words, we would like to see a post that actually contributes to the thread and not something that just takes up space.

Just to be clear, any "welcome" post in the Intro forum will be deleted if you do not have 50 quality posts yet and it is not your own intro thread. However, you will find that once you get past the initial water-testing phase, INGO actually has a very welcoming community around here. In fact, one of our members created a whole thread giving a proper welcome for our new members: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_...r_newbies.html. Be sure to check it out!

To help put it in perspective, this was from one of the moderators as we were discussing this particular topic one day:
Quote:
For a new member, it's intimidating. You don't know the social rules yet, and so maybe you sort of "dip your toe in" a little bit as you try to become part of the group. This is why I try to let their posts go past ten so I can see where they go from there. If it's obvious what they're doing, on the other hand, then all bets are off.
Just remember, we are a community that borders on family. Jump in and have fun, and show us who you are before you try to sell us that hot new gun collection you have!

On a lighter note, read this thread and watch the videos in the OP!
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_...ed_before.html

Here's another great thread in case you missed in it the book above:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_...r_newbies.html

YouTube - New INGO Greeting


50 posts?! REALLY?!
Recently, Fenway has decided to offer a way around the 50 post requirement, and that is to become a Site Supporter. His feeling is that becoming a supporter will give you a vested interested in helping the site and reduce the likelihood that you will spam the board. See this link for more info:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/site_s..._are_here.html

What ARE the Classified Rules, anyway?
I'm glad you asked! You can read all about posting in our classified sections right here:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/firear...e_posting.html

Do I need to post pictures in my Classified ad?
No, it's not required. However, it's good business to do so and the other members will invariably ask you for pictures anyway so you might as well. Try to post pictures of the actual item and not a picture grabbed from the manufacturer's website with a caption that says "but it looks just like this!".

I can't figure out how to post pictures!
That's not a question, but I'll try to help anyway. The picture uploading feature on INGO is currently disabled to save bandwidth. You must host pictures offsite for the time being. Please see this thread for a handy tutorial on using a couple different free picture hosting sites:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_..._tutorial.html

When you say we need 50 posts to participate in the Classifieds, what does that mean exactly? I can still buy from people even though I don't have 50 posts yet, right? That's not really participating because you mean I just can't sell in the Classifieds, right?
There's a reason we chose the word "participate."
We didn't say you have to have 50 posts to sell in the Classifieds section.
We didn't say you have to have 50 posts to trade in the Classifieds section.
We didn't say you have to have 50 posts to buy in the Classifieds section.

You have to have 50 posts to participate in the Classifieds section.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dictionary.com
participate
to take part, be or become actively involved, or share
Sooo... Since I can't post in the Classifieds yet, can I discuss politics on INGO?
So far, yes. Please keep discussions civil and leave out the personal attacks. This site is for ALL Indiana Gun Owners, from all walks of life and political beliefs. So far, political discussions (when they have remained specifically about politics) haven't caused too much tension here, and some really interesting and stimulating debate has occurred because of it.

What about politics that involve race? Or just racial discussion in general?
Big Fat No on this one. Discussions that involve race (ANY race: black, white, Native American, Indonesian, Purple, whatever) have become WAY too heated and involved WAY too many personal attacks, causing some very good members to leave the site and never look back (and not necessarily because *they* were the ones offended). In short, racial discussions of any kind are a big no-no.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/site_n...ngo_rules.html

How about religion? Can we talk about that?
Again, a big, resounding NO. And let me be painstakingly clear on this one: ANY discussion of religion will NOT be tolerated. At all. None. If it even hints at being religious in ANY way, the thread will be closed and/or deleted. It is VERY possible MANY infractions will be handed out. In many instances, it is cause for a ban from the site, which may or may not be permanent. Right now, we are being VERY black and white on this. There is NO GREY AREA. This is unfortunate, because like politics, religion has stirred up some very thought-provoking discussions. However, it has also stirred the pot WAY too many times and until everyone can become civil again, Religion Must Not Be Discussed. Even then, it's unlikely to come back. Just. Don't. Do. It.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/site_n...ngo_rules.html

So I can't discuss what I want to? You guys (or sometimes, "Your rules") suck!

We hear that every once in a while. You're certainly welcome to your opinion. Feel free to find a place where you can discuss what you want to, but while you're here, we must insist that you follow our rules- they apply to everyone, and yes, that includes you. Yes, you.
If you're looking for other places that might have different rules where you can still discuss firearms and their ownership specifically created for gun owners in Indiana, other boards can be found by searching Google. We're happy to see the other options and wish them good fortune, though promoting other boards here is discouraged unless they choose to be Advertising Supporters, just like any other business.

Help! So-and-so is pesticating me! (or we're getting into arguments and I'm getting infractions)
We're going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're an adult and therefore expect you to act like one. That should stop the infractions, at least. As for the rest, you can ignore so-and-so by clicking "back" and reading another topic or you can use the handy dandy vBulletin feature for that purpose called, coincidentally, the ignore list. If you add someone to your list, you will not see their posts unless you want to or unless someone else quotes them.

So how do we use this wonderful feature?
I thought you'd never ask. Look up at the top of your screen. See the ? Click on it. No, not this one, the one way up at the top of your screen, silly! OK, yeah, you probably should wait till you've read all the instructions. OK, so once you click it, look on the left side of your screen and you'll see a bar of click commands. The fifth one down under "Settings & Options" is "Edit Ignore List". That's the one you want to click. On the next screen, just add the name of the member you want to ignore and click "Okay". You can't ignore mods or admins and mods can't ignore you with this feature.

So, about this copyright thing... Can I quote even a sentence from another source?
Right now, because of many lawsuits that are going on in the blogosphere, we are requiring that no further content from any off-site source be quoted on INGO unless you can prove immediately without a doubt that you own the copyright or have permission to reprint the material. We don't care if you're a copyright lawyer and you "know better". We don't care if you think you own the material because it's "in the public domain". The point is not up for argument or discussion. If it wasn't personally written by you, then don't post it. If you're looking for a loophole, then you're missing the point. If you're not sure if it's OK to post, PM a mod and ask. If they say "no" and you post it anyway...well, it was nice knowing you.

Rather than put any of our members, the staff, or the site at risk, we would just rather not have quoted material at all. You may still link most other sites. It is STRONGLY recommended that you also include a brief sentence or three about why you feel our members should read the linked article to provide a start for discussion. We are not a news aggregate. We are a site for Indiana Gun Owners to learn more about guns, laws, and training, as well as other subjects pertinent to the average Indiana Gun Owner.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/site_n...ngo_rules.html

What happened to my post? Why was it deleted/edited/moved? Don't you believe in the First Amendment as much as the Second?
This question comes up from time to time. The short answer is that of course we support the First Amendment, but the First Amendment doesn't apply here. Think of it this way: You got invited to a party at someone's house. If you are disruptive or obnoxious, you may be asked to settle down or leave the party. INGO is owned and operated on Fenway's dime and is presented to you 100% free of charge. He has asked that certain topics not be discussed here and that a certain level of civility is maintained. He has charged the moderators with maintaining those rules. In a sense, this is Fenway's house and Fenway's party. This does not mean that you have to agree with everything everyone else says. You just have to follow the rules. Be polite. Don't be disruptive. Don't bring up banned subjects (especially this, as it's hard to run a website when your server has been subpoena'ed).

Eric (Glocktalk's maintainer) put it succinctly in a post on GT not too long ago. It applies to message boards in general:
Quote:
It is an enormously complicated balancing act to keep such a large melting pot of personalities and cultures and ideologies and religions as we have represented in the members here coexisting in anything close to harmony. In order for any society to work, individuals are going to have to conform to a minimum set of standards that the whole society can live with, in order for that society to endure. Anarchy as a societal model does not work. Ask any of the message board communities that have sprung up and were dedicated to having zero rules, many of which were created by people who were pi**ed off at how I run this site. Only, you can't ask any of them, because none of them are still around.
As long as you behave and follow the rules, we'll all be happy. The moderator's job is to ensure that the rules are followed to maintain the integrity of the site. Occasionally that means we need to delete or edit posts. If you can't deal with that, then you shouldn't be on INGO. Asking about the policies is perfectly fine, but if you're just going to complain about it, then please keep it to yourself. We've heard all the complaints and insults (Nazi mods!) before and we don't want to keep hearing them. They haven't changed the board policy yet, they won't in the future, and it'll just lead to you getting banned for being disruptive.

Here is a post from Fenway that might help shed some light on his philosophy and vision for INGO and what he's trying to accomplish:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/site_n...epic_post.html


I can't figure out how to post/edit my settings/PM people/etc.
Check out the Forum Rules/Forum Tips FAQ.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/introd...e_posting.html


What the heck is up with this "bacon" thing?
It's Scutter01's fault.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_..._the_gods.html

Why is someone writing text in purple?
INGO member Paco Bedejo gets the blame for this one. He began highlighting his text in purple to indicate sarcasm (a difficult concept to convey in text-only), and it stuck. We moderators think this trend is totally useless and worthless.

How do I become a Site Supporter?
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/site_n..._are_here.html

Who is in charge of this place anyway?
Fenway.

Who are the Moderators?
Pami, Scutter01, VUPDblue, Spasmo, Bill of Rights, Lars, esrice, Que, and danielocean03.

How do you identify an INGO member out in the "real world"?
They talk in purple. Or, they might have an INGO bumper sticker on their cars. Or they might be wearing a super cool INGO hat or t-shirt. Or they might have a bright yellow INGO chamber flag hanging out somewhere (like in their daughter's Barbie trucks). But don't you DARE call them out on it. Be sure to make the sacred peace offering first: offer them bacon.

Does INGO ever have any meet-and-greet type events?
Just a few. In no particular order whatsoever (more like, in the order we thought of them...), here are some of our past events:


INGO NFA Day 2008 -- BEST EVENT EVAR!
INGO NFA Day Alumni Shoot 2009 -- WATERMELONS!!!
INGO NFA Day 2009
INGO NFA Day 2010
INGO NFA Day Alumni Shoot 2010 - Featuring Papa Roux po' boys. That's right. Papa Roux. And you missed it.

INGO Class with Shay VanVlymen -- Basic Pistol Class at Eagle Creek Pistol Range

1st Annual 2008 INGO Mosin Nagant group Shoot - Mosin Shoot at Hamilton County Fish & Game
2nd Annual 2009 INGO Mosin Nagant Group Shoot - Now more Mosinier!

AR15 Build Party - A couple of our resident NFA experts got together with some AR newbies and helped them build out some ARs.

Open Carry Breakfast in Terre Haute

Big Ugly Challenge at Bub's in Carmel plus photos

Basic Class by Matt Pierce - May 10

IDPA Match at Hamilton County Fish & Game - A match where some of our members met the nice folks at HCFG

2009 INGO Family Picnic at ECPR

2010 INGO AR-15 Open House

There are numerous others... just keep your eyes open for them!


So when is the next INGO Get Together?
That depends on when you organize it!

Keep your eyes peeled for random shoots hosted by Moderators, Site Supporters, and other members! You never know when someone might be looking for a range buddy or six. Many members are now organizing monthly breakfasts and dinners to get to know the other members in your area. Hamilton County, Johnson County, NWI Indiana, Bloomington, and Evansville all have strong groups that meet frequently. Check out the INGO Events forum for the next great event!

Will INGO have a table at the next 1500?
Yes. Come with cash -- Fenway will have hats and patches and various other INGO swag for sale!

Where can I get one of those super cool INGO hats?
Weren't you paying attention? We just mentioned it. Go up one line.

What does [insert favorite acronym here] mean?
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_..._acronyms.html
Some popular ones:
FTF = Face to Face, or Failure to Feed/Fire, depending on the subject
INGO = Indiana Gun Owners website
IANAL = I am not a lawyer
SHTF = Stuff Hits the Fan (hey, it's a PG13 site, ok?)
WTS/WTB/WTT = Want to Sell/Buy/Trade
NIB = New in Box
LNIB = Like NIB
AAR=After Action Review (a report of what happened)
NSFW/NSFK=Not Safe For Work/Not Safe For Kids (language, violence, sexual situations. Be forewarned)
EDC: Every Day Carry (the gun/knife/flashlight(s) you carry with you every day)

Click this bar to view the full image.


When a group of INGOers gets together, what am I supposed to call it?
The preferred nomenclature is "A baconing of INGOers". Also, please note for the official record that Pami is neither "old" nor "a fart".
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/forum_...tml#post518531


At the bottom of the home page it says Active Users, (Members, Guests, and Spiders). What is a Spider?
In this case, a Spider is an automated program that traverses the mysterious interwebs in search of pertinent information that goes into a fancy algorithm to make YOUR words show up in search engines like Google, Yahoo, etc. In other words, the spiders are indexing the pages of INGO so that we show up when someone searches for things like "gun laws Indiana" or "glock 19 for sale Indiana" or "bacon." (Ok, so *maybe* INGO isn't on the first page of results for "bacon." But we should be!!!!)

If that isn't explanatory enough, check out this thread:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_..._a_spider.html
and especially this one:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_...r_instead.html

This is also a spider, and it was an uninvited party crasher at NFA Alumni Day 2010. It required a whole belt through the MM23E to destroy:


INGO needs a live chat!
No matter how many times you request it, the answer will always be NO. We've tried it and it's Teh Suck. Occasionally, a member will start a channel offsite and it will run for a couple of days and then close down. It's generally interesting while it's up. Keep your eyes peeled for threads about it as it comes and goes.

What is a Shill Account?
A shill account is any account you have created after your first initial registration. It is often used by those who have been banned. It is also used to impersonate other individuals or falsely represent one’s self. These accounts will be banned permanently and your initial username may be temporarily banned.

I already have an account. May I create a new one? (Sometimes called a Shill Account)
No, you may not. You are allowed one and only one account. If you have created an account and are unhappy with the username, please send a PM to the moderator(s). Please include why you want it to be changed and what you want it to be changed to. The more information you can provide, the better we will be able to assist you.

What happens if I create another account?
The new one you create will be banned permanently. Your original username may receive a temporary ban as well.

I have two accounts but am only using one. What should I do?
Please inform a moderator and we'll close the account you're not using. If you are caught with two accounts without informing the staff, the newest one will be closed. If you let us know ahead of time we're a lot more likely to be lenient with your remaining account.

May I have my membership canceled/account deleted?
We do not cancel memberships or delete accounts. If you do not want to use your account anymore, please just stop using it.

Where is _________?
If you're looking for a specific member, go to the member list and search by their name (that is, if you're looking for, say, Fenway, look under F.) If that person's name is no longer there, it means either that they've requested and received a name change or that they've been banned. Alternatively, you can use "search" to try to find some post of theirs. If under their name is the title "Shooter", they are banned. In some cases, it is possible that the ban is temporary (as in a few days, generally). In others, it is not.
Bans of members are not subject to debate or discussion.

May I have my name changed?
Username change requests are approved on a per user basis. If you are granted a name change, you will receive one and only one. Please send a PM to the moderator(s). Please include why you want it to be changed and what you want it to be changed to. The more information you can provide, the better we will be able to help you. If you are rejected, you will receive an email from one of the moderators. Please do not yell at this moderator. They are just doing their job. You may calmly ask them why it was rejected but being nice will get you a lot further than being rude.
Last edited by Pami; 04-08-2011 at 19:59.. Reason: Moved "where is ______?"

01-18-2009 #8 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


Getting Training
GETTING TRAINING

Training is important as it is a key element of responsible gun ownership. Train early and often, especially if you choose to carry your firearm as a self-defense weapon. Learning how you react to stressful situations should not learned as "on the job" training. Learn how you will react BEFORE you need to react.

Why should I get formal training?
It's great that you have decades of experience with your firearms. It's awesome that your Marine-trained dad taught you everything you know. But, have you ever had to USE that informal training in a real life scenario? Do you KNOW without a doubt how you will react in a real life situation?

During some down-time in a personal training session I had recently, my trainer related a few stories to me about some force-on-force classes he had taught in the past.

One gentleman he trained found out that he stops listening when put into a stressful situation. His focus was so completely on what was going on in front of him that he stopped listening to what was going on behind him. Even if an instructor was standing right beside his ear, this student didn't hear the instructor. This is bad because (as an example) if police do come on to the scene and shout for you to drop your gun, you need to drop your gun. This gentleman learned that because his ability to hear evaporated during stress, he needed to work on extending his other senses like being more aware of his peripheral vision to acknowledge the lights of police vehicles or noticing additional BGs coming up behind him.

Do you really KNOW how you will react when under stress? As many of your actions as possible need to be trained and practiced so they become second nature. If your gun fails, you need to automatically tap-rack-bang. If the bang part doesn't happen, drop the mag and put a new one in without thinking about it. Get back in the fight. Move while you're clearing your malfunction. Quality training will provide you with instructors who generally have spent years learning about and teaching the most effective techniques to keep you in the fight if you can't defuse the situation. Being in an actual fight is not the best time to find out what your weaknesses are. Get training frequently and practice often.

I've taken trainings where the class members ranged from complete newbies (usually me) to people who have been shooting for years but have had no formal training to people who have had over 600 hours of formal instruction. Every single time, every single person has taken at least one thing away from the class and found it worth every penny he (or she) paid for the class. Even if you take away what not to do in a situation, you learned something.

Where do I get training?
Check out the Tactics & Training forum. There are a lot of options as far as training goes: some are good and others are not so good. If you are completely new to guns, or even new to just handguns or just long guns, it is strongly recommended that you at least check out a NRA Basic class. From there you can move on to use-specific types of training, such as defensive pistol training by Tactical Response, TDI, Gunsite, etc. Some schools offer trainings on shooting sports in addition to their defensive courses, like our own ACT. For someone new to shooting long guns, the Appleseed program is an excellent source of training as well. There are a lot of options for just about everything; take advantage of as many opportunities as you can! A single well-placed round is a lot more effective than a magazine of rounds that miss.

A couple of links to some training companies we've discussed in threads on this forum (in no particular order)

Mindset Laboratory
Indy Gun Safety
Adaptive Consulting & Training
Dignitary Protection Group, LLC (DPG) - Home
Tactical Response
MODERN COMBATIVE SYSTEMS - Self Defense Training for Civilians, Military and Law Enforcement Agencies - Open Hand, Stick, Knife and Pistol
MDFI - Home
Gunsite- NRA firearms training pistol carbine rifle
Tactical Defense Institute
Defense Training International, Inc.
E.A.G. Tactical
Front Sight Firearms Training Institute
Suarez International USA, Inc.
Realistic and Practical Firearms Training

Just remember when looking for a company to train with that what you take away from the class depends most on the open mind you take to it. Even the same course offered by the same instructor at the same range by the same company may give you something different just based on how receptive you were to the material and/or how your classmates received the material. Not all classmates are the same; not all instructors are the same; not all courses are the same; and not every company is the same!


Should training be required to own a firearm?
There are a lot of opinions on this. Some die-hard gun enthusiasts will say that some form of training should be required in order to receive a license to carry or to purchase a firearm. Others who are training junkies themselves will say that requiring training is just a crutch: those who understand the importance of training would seek it out anyway, and those who take the training solely because it's required won't get anything out of the required training anyway. That is something that you will have to decide for yourself, but here is a couple of threads where we have discussed it before:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactic..._training.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...d_testing.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...uirements.html
Last edited by Scutter01; 09-24-2010 at 06:05.. Reason: Added new required training poll thread

07-15-2009 #9 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


The INGO FAQ
The INGO FAQ

Why doesn't INGO have a FAQ with questions that seem to be asked often around here?
Amazingly enough, INGO does actually have a FAQ. It was officially stickied in January 2009, and is periodically updated by the Moderators of this forum. As soon as we can remember where we put it, we'll post a link.

Where can I find a link to the INGO FAQ?
Most Moderators actually have a link to the FAQ in their signatures. Just find a post by a Moderator and click the link!

Or, if you can't seem to find a post by a Moderator, you might try actually clicking the big green FAQ button on the far right of the button links at the top of every single page. On that page, click the super-sized, bolded link that says, "The Official INGO FAQ (START HERE FIRST!!!)." Once you click through to the next page, click the super-sized, bolded link at the top of the page that states, "Click here for the INGO FAQ!"

I know that seems really complicated, but the FAQ button at the top of every single page simply goes to the standard vBulletin forum FAQ, which has absolutely nothing to do with this particular INGO forum.

When someone asks a question, why do people direct them to the FAQ, rather than just answer them?
This is the primary reason for having a FAQ, or "Frequently Asked Question" list in the first place, because the questions are asked frequently and the answers are typed out in more detail than someone might remember on his or her own. In addition, the usual follow-up questions are also answered in close proximity and it just saves everyone's time to allow for more talking about guns. Of course, some people consider it rude to do this and we're aware of that fact. Quite simply, we know that we can please some of the people some of the time and we can please some (others) of the people none of the time. That latter group is welcome to their opinions. The fact that we disagree with them does not seem to dissuade them in the least from repeating those opinions both vociferously and incessantly.

I couldn't find the answer to a commonly asked question in the FAQ. Can I submit a request for it to be added?
Of course you can! Just go to this thread (CLICK HERE) and submit your request. Actually posting an answer and relevant links to threads about your question will get the question/answer added a lot faster!

Oh, and just in case you actually did NOT find the answer to your question (about INGO, anyway), check out this thread for answers (and a whole lot of mod-lovin's). If the question wasn't answered in the FAQ already, I think this thread covers it.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_..._off_ingo.html
Last edited by Bill of Rights; 02-19-2011 at 15:02.. Reason: Why FAQ? added.

10-19-2009 #10 (permalink)
Scutter01
Living the dream




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: At the combination Pizza Hut and Taco Bell
Posts: 15,346

Gun Shows
Are there any gun shows in my area this weekend?
Here's a website that keeps track of some shows. We can't track them all for you, so you're on your own. Keep an eye in the threads, though. People usually talk about the good ones a week before they come up.
Indiana Gun Shows

When is the next Indy 1500?
Welcome to the Indy 1500 Gun & Knife Show

How much does it cost to get in?
Parking is usually $5 and admission is $10. If you sign up for their mailing list, you'll get a postcard in the mail a week before the next show for a dollar off admission.
Welcome to the Indy 1500 Gun & Knife Show

Which building is it in?
The 1500 generally alternates between the South Pavilion and the West Pavilion. Check their website for more info. Frankly, it's not hard to figure it out once you get down there.

Will INGO have a table there?
Maybe. Definitely possibly. Watch for an announcement from Fenway a week before the show. We don't usually have a table at the regional shows, but the 1500 is much more likely.

Will there be any cool INGO swag?
Maybe. Definitely possibly. Fenway usually tries to have some nifties for sale, but they won't always be announced ahead of time. Also, don't expect the same things as the previous show. If you missed out on that cool t-shirt or patch at the last show, you might not have another chance. Get it while you can.

Can I carry my self-defense gun into a gun show?
Virtually all gun shows require you to unload all guns PRIOR to entering the show. Unload outside and then present your guns to the people manning the tables inside. They will zip-tie them for you. Be sure you do not present them noisy-end first as people don't generally like having a gun pointed at them, unloaded or otherwise! Note that "unloaded" is usually taken to mean that the magazine is empty of rounds, too.

At the Indy 1500, the zip tie will be a different color from the vendor zip ties. They serve as a sort of receipt to show that the gun is yours upon exiting the facility.

Can I carry any other gun into a gun show?
Yes. Many people bring their guns to the shows to sell or trade. See the part above regarding zip-tying.

How do I go about selling or trading my gun at a gun show?
Again, making sure to get your gun zip-tied is a requirement. Many people like to make a sign and either pin it to their back, or tape it to a dowel to insert in the barrel (in the case of a long gun).

Indiana Statute requires that the person you sell a handgun to in a face-to-face transaction must be 18 years old and an Indiana resident. Furthermore, you may not sell a gun to a person prohibited from owning one. Since you have no way of performing a background check, you may prefer to have an FFL broker the trade for you and perform a NICS check. Otherwise, many people ask to see a driver's license to verify residency and age, and an LTCH to make at least a token effort to verify if the buyer is a "proper person". If the buyer resides in another state, the sale must go through an FFL. The FFL will have full details about the requirements and procedures. You should also plan to write out a receipt for the sale. Have two copies, one for you and one for the buyer. He may need it to get out of the building with his new purchase, and you may need it for your records.

In general, face-to-face sales can happen inside or outside the show. Most gun shows have a sign asking you not to sell in front of the door as it usually blocks traffic.

Will there be food at the show?
I've never been to a gun show yet that didn't serve food of some kind. In general, the food is concession-stand prices. Be prepared to pay for it.

What's the best way to make a good deal?
Cash is king! Dealers who see you walk up with cash in hand (not credit cards) will be far more likely to cut you a deal. Remember, if you don't buy it, they have to haul it back to their shop on Sunday. Don't be afraid to haggle, but don't be a jerk about it either. Some dealers don't bargain.

Take along a small notebook. Note the price and location when you find an item you're interested in. Ask if the price is good all day or if it goes up when you walk away from the table. If you decide to continue to shop, you'll be able to find your way back to the table later on.

(Psst! Some dealers are INGO advertising supporters and will cut you a special INGO deal if you ask them about it...)

I don't have my LTCH yet. If I buy a gun at the show, can I take it home?
Per IC 35-47-2-2 (clause 11), one of the exceptions to licensed carry is that you are allowed to bring a handgun home from the place of purchase provided it is unloaded and in a "secure wrapper". The IC doesn't specify what a "Secure wrapper" is, but it's generally thought to mean a locked hard-shelled case such as a lock box or the plastic case most handguns ship in.

Note that you are not authorized to make side-trips on the way home. Not even to stop for a coke at McDonald's. See the previous sections of this FAQ for more information.

Of course, long guns don't require a license at all, so you're good to go either way for that.

 

[RelicHound]

#1 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


INGunOwners FAQs (sticky)
Other contributions to the FAQ + Answers to help pull this together would be much appreciated. Please note them in this thread (https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera..._gun_faqs.html) and I'll update or add the questions/answers. Thanks!!

This is obviously a "living document." I broke out the questions into "categories" and made them separate posts for easier reference. I hope this helps. Please don't hesitate to poke me if something needs to move or another category should be added, and *definitely* correct me if I'm completely (or even partially) wrong about something.

Where can I find a list of INGO's forum rules?
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/introd...e_posting.html


Table of Contents for this thread:
About the LTCH (License to Carry a Handgun): https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post187167

About Carrying Your Handgun: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post187168

About Guns (in General): https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post187170

About Women & Guns: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post187171

About Shooting with Other People: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post187172

About INGO: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post187173

About Getting Training: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post218810

About the INGO FAQ: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post483029

About Gun Shows: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post630600

About INGO Reputation Points: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...tml#post762873

About shipping a firearm: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...ml#post1324458

All About NFA: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...ml#post1761124

Obtaining your own Federal Firearms License (FFL): https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...ml#post1771317

Having trouble logging in: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...ml#post1773571

Or you might read the excellent PDF files that Kludge put together for his classes. You can find them all together here: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handgu...y_classes.html

And just in case that didn't answer your questions:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamstutz
You may just want to post a link to http://www.in.gov/isp/files/firearms_FAQ_02_08.pdf [The ISP Firearms FAQs]. It answers a lot of the questions I've been asked.
You might try that.

Or you might try this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by snojet
I thought this would help the community as a whole. I've read through many posts and some questions that people are asking are answered in this link that is provided below.
Legal Community Against Violence - Indiana

Recently I got this information in a printed form from the Carmel Police department when I applied and had an interview with the police chief for my LTCH permit.

Or you might try a copy of Bryan Ciyou's book Indiana Handgun Law. Read all three editions; they're excellent and worth reading.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/India...10804665644590


Or you might start a new thread in the appropriate forum and see what happens.
Last edited by spasmo; 03-30-2011 at 07:39.. Reason: Added FFL FAQ

12-21-2008 #2 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


About the LTCH (License to Carry a Handgun)
ABOUT THE LTCH:

This thread actually covers a wide range of questions about the LTCH in general (except how to apply for it):
*** https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...t_is_this.html

How do I apply for my LTCH?
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._for_ltch.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...ting_ltch.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/politi...ode_240_a.html

What's the difference between an LTCH and a CCW?
LTCH is a License to Carry Handgun. Concealed or open is not specified. The type of weapon is specified. This is the type of license/permit that Indiana offers to its residents. CCW is a Concealed Carry Weapon (permit). Concealed is specified. The type of weapon is not specified (although it is usually restricted to certain types). Indiana does NOT offer this type of license/permit.


What the heck IS an LTCH?
LTCH is a License to Carry Handgun. This is the type of license/permit that Indiana offers to its residents. It is ONLY legal to carry a handgun if you have a valid LTCH, with a very few exceptions to that rule in either direction. Also note that it's a license to carry a handgun. It's not an authorization for any other type of weapon (such as a switchblade, which is illegal to possess or carry in Indiana).

Two things to note:
1) If you do not have an LTCH, you can still buy a handgun and transport it back to your fixed place of business, or to your residence, or to/from a place of repair. The gun must be unloaded and in a secure wrapper (such as a locked hard-shelled case).
2) You cannot transport your handgun to your favorite range without an LTCH, even if the gun is in a secure wrapper, separated from the ammunition. Click here for a thread by a member who demonstrates that even if a police officer tells you it's ok, it's NOT ok:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...your_help.html

Also note this Indiana Code: Indiana Code 35-47-2
Quote:
IC 35-47-2-1
Carrying a handgun without a license or by person convicted of domestic battery
Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.
(b) Unless the person's right to possess a firearm has been restored under IC 35-47-4-7, a person who has been convicted of domestic battery under IC 35-42-2-1.3 may not possess or carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body in the person's dwelling or on the person's property or fixed place of business.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.326-1987, SEC.1; P.L.195-2003, SEC.6; P.L.98-2004, SEC.155; P.L.118-2007, SEC.35.
Quote:
IC 35-47-2-2
Excepted persons
Sec. 2. Section 1 of this chapter does not apply to:
(1) marshals;
(2) sheriffs;
(3) the commissioner of the department of correction or persons authorized by him in writing to carry firearms;
(4) judicial officers;
(5) law enforcement officers;
(6) members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves while they are on duty;
(7) regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive such weapons from the United States or from this state who are at or are going to or from their place of assembly or target practice;
(8) employees of the United States duly authorized to carry handguns;
(9) employees of express companies when engaged in company business;
(10) any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms or the agent or representative of any such person having in his possession, using, or carrying a handgun in the usual or ordinary course of that business; or
(11) any person while carrying a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or to a place of repair or back to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or in moving from one dwelling or business to another.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.


Note NONE of this says anything about going to a range to practice except for #7 above, and that does NOT include the general populace.



How long does it take to get an LTCH?
As of May 2010, we're hearing reports of people receiving them in as little as 1 week (using the L-1 process and applying online). If you're stuck going into your local PD and doing everything manually, it's still a several week process. As of July 2010, the manual wait time appears to be about 12 weeks.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._ccw_wait.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._now_what.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...ml#post1042734

Indiana State Police Firearms Licensing Section: 317-232-8264

What is this L-1 process?
L-1 Identity Solutions is a third-party contracted by the State to perform the fingerprinting and background check. It's optional in many counties and not available yet in others. Combined with submitting your LTCH application online (in the available counties), this greatly speeds the process of receiving your pretty pink piece of paper.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...ch_online.html
Home - L-1 Identity Solutions


Should I get the Lifetime or the 4-year? Personal Protection or Target/Hunting?
Lifetime Personal Protection. Yes, it costs more to get the Lifetime rather thanthe 4-Year, but Indiana is currently the only state that offers it, and it saves you the hassle of having to remember to renew your license every four years. Go ahead and get the Personal Protection license rather than the Target/Hunting license. This gives you the option to carry it should you ever decide you want to, and on the off chance you "forget" to take it out of your car and somehow managed to get pulled over, your Personal Protection license clearly covers you. This is also a strong reason why your Significant Other and anyone else who may be driving your vehicles (children..?) should have a LTCH also.

Of note: While the Lifetime LTCH is usually recommended, those of you who are not IN residents the 4 year is the only one you can have. Also, the cost breaks even after what, three renewals? So if you don't plan on being here more than 12 years, perhaps the 4 year would be better.


When can I renew my current license?
Within 365 days of your current license's expiration date and not before.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._lifetime.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/the_2n...s_now_law.html

Can I convert my current 4-year license to a Lifetime license?
Sorry, Charlie. You should have gotten the Lifetime when you had the chance. You'll have to wait until your current license is within the 365-day renewal period noted above before you can renew and choose the Lifetime option.

My license expired two months ago, but I reapplied for a new license yesterday. Can I still carry my gun?
No. If the application for renewal of an existing license is filed within thirty (30) days of its expiration, the existing license is automatically extended until the application for renewal is passed upon. You'll need to carry your application receipt along with your license until the renewal arrives. If you reapply after the license expired, (even if it's within 30 days), even the receipt does not allow you to carry legally. You must wait until your new license arrives.

Some tips once your LTCH arrives:
In this order:
1) Make copies. If you can, scan it and save it to your computer.
2) Store the original in your safe.
3) Sign each of your copies.
4) Laminate each of your copies.
5) Have one EVERYWHERE.
6) SIGN BEFORE YOU LAMINATE.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._was_told.html
One of our members, Printcraft, is offering free LTCH lamination to members of INGO: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...o_members.html

So am I really allowed to make a copy of my LTCH?
Technically... No. But you still may find this thread interesting. INGO member Cordex actually ASKED the people who should know!
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...mit_redux.html

Oops. I didn't make a copy of my LTCH, and I've managed to lose the one I have. Can I get a replacement?
Yes. You just need to request a duplicate from the ISP. At this time, it's a $20 replacement fee. When you get it, make copies.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...ment_ltch.html
ICPR: Home

What happens if I move?
You need to inform the Indiana State Police within 60 days of your address change. They won't send you a new license with your new address unless you also pay $20 for a new copy. Your old license will still be valid, provided you've notified the ISP of your address change. Here's a link to the form:
http://forms.in.gov/Download.aspx?id=6643
Or call the Indiana State Police Firearms Licensing Section at 317-232-8264.

How will I know that my address has been updated?
You won't. The ISP just updates their database. They will not notify you that they have done so, but you are free to call the Firearms Licensing Section to verify your address on file. You might as well just go ahead and spend the $20 on a new license at the time you update your address so you'll not only get a freshly-minted license (with your new address), but it will also serve as your notification that they've updated their records.

What happens to my Lifetime LTCH if I move out of state?
INGO member CountryBoy19 called the ISP and asked them. There are special provisions for military deployment as their residency may still technically be in Indiana, but for civilians, you notify the ISP of your new address and your license will be "deactivated". If you move back to Indiana, you can have it "re-activated" without going through the license process again.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...tml#post355104

I heard that the lifetime LTCH won't be available anymore. Is this true?
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. Doing away with the lifetime license would involve introducing and passing legislation to change the law. Currently, there are no bills in the State Legislature to amend the existing law. Whoever told you that it's going away doesn't know what they're talking about.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/politi...in_danger.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/politi...ry_permit.html

Someone should create a list of pertinent Indiana Codes that I can carry around in my wallet in case Something Bad happens!
Interesting you should mention that...
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._ic_codes.html
Last edited by Scutter01; 03-08-2011 at 17:13.. Reason: Updated info about moving

12-21-2008 #3 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


About Carrying Your Handgun
ABOUT CARRYING:


I have a handgun. What do I carry it in?
A holster. I recommend Raven Concealment Systems
Although, there are a plethora of threads on this topic, asked and answered by people much less biased than me:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...you_carry.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...b_holster.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/access...kholsters.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/access..._holsters.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/access...ruger_lcp.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/access...t_holster.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/access...gun_comps.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/access...lock_23_a.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/access..._pictures.html


Where am I allowed to carry in Indiana?
Assuming you have your LTCH...not schools (including churches with preschools), not most government buildings, not most Federal property, not most of Indy City Parks. Yes, you can carry in most state parks.

A more specific list of where you can NOT carry:
k-12 schools, property used for school functions
school buses
Head Start
preschools
private schools
riverboat casinos
airport sterile areas
shipping ports
State fairgrounds during State Fair
Post office (questionable, as it may not actually be Federal property)
Where prohibited by local ordinance, on gov't property

Some of these are not mandated by state statute, but are delegated. For example, there is no actual law prohibiting carry on riverboat casinos. However, there are laws delegating the authority to the Indiana Gaming Commission to define their own administrative rules. The IGC has significant "teeth" to enforce their administrative rules, including providing for criminal prosecution.


Without your LTCH, there is nowhere that you can carry legally. As always, there are a very few, very restrictive exceptions to this rule. However, that said, just in case it hasn't been made clear enough: you can NOT carry from your home to your favorite range (public or private) without your LTCH. The term "carry" encompasses not only on your person in a holster, but also in your car, truck, boat, plane, in a locked container separate from your ammunition.

IANAL.

Some threads:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...you_go_to.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...rohibited.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._downtown.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/the_2n..._to_carry.html

That last thread has this gem in post #29:
Quote:
Originally Posted by zebov
Without my LTCH...
"Can I carry it on me at the grocery?" NO!
"Can I carry it on me on the street?" NO!
"Can I carry it on me in my car?" NO!
"Can I have it in the car while going to the range?" NO!
"Can I have it in my car but not on my body in plain sight?" NO!
"Can I have it stowed in my car out of sight, like in my glovebox or something?" NO!
"Can I have it stowed in the trunk of my car?" NO!
"Can I have it stowed in the trunk of my car locked in a box?" NO!
"Can I have it stowed in the trunk of my car, field stripped, unloaded, with each piece locked in a separate hard container?" NO!
"Not even if I'm going to the range?" NO!
"What if I'm going to the range?" NO!
"Even if I'm going to the range to transact business?" NO!
"What about if I'm going to go shoot at the range?" NO!
"What about if I'm going to go to the range, but just to chat with people, not to shoot there?" NO!
"What if a police officer told me it was okay?" NO!
"What if I have my LTCH?" YES!

Solution: Get your LTCH
Click here for a thread by a member who demonstrates that even if a police officer tells you it's ok, it's NOT ok:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...your_help.html


Indiana Code clicky: Indiana Code 35-47-2
Quote:
IC 35-47-2-1
Carrying a handgun without a license or by person convicted of domestic battery
Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.
(b) Unless the person's right to possess a firearm has been restored under IC 35-47-4-7, a person who has been convicted of domestic battery under IC 35-42-2-1.3 may not possess or carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body in the person's dwelling or on the person's property or fixed place of business.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.326-1987, SEC.1; P.L.195-2003, SEC.6; P.L.98-2004, SEC.155; P.L.118-2007, SEC.35.
Quote:
IC 35-47-2-2
Excepted persons
Sec. 2. Section 1 of this chapter does not apply to:
(1) marshals;
(2) sheriffs;
(3) the commissioner of the department of correction or persons authorized by him in writing to carry firearms;
(4) judicial officers;
(5) law enforcement officers;
(6) members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves while they are on duty;
(7) regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive such weapons from the United States or from this state who are at or are going to or from their place of assembly or target practice;
(8) employees of the United States duly authorized to carry handguns;
(9) employees of express companies when engaged in company business;
(10) any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms or the agent or representative of any such person having in his possession, using, or carrying a handgun in the usual or ordinary course of that business; or
(11) any person while carrying a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or to a place of repair or back to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or in moving from one dwelling or business to another.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.


Note NONE of this says anything about going to a range to practice except for #7 above, and that does NOT include the general populace.


The list above doesn't mention bars. Does that mean I can carry in a bar? Am I allowed to have a drink while carrying?
Yes, there is no law that prohibits carrying while in a bar or while drinking. However, it is STRONGLY recommended that if you choose to carry in these situations that you absolutely know your limits. If you're a lightweight like me, leave it at home, leave it in the car, or bring an armed friend with you. If you know your reason does not leave you when you have a drink or six, then by all means, continue to carry and continue to respond with the understanding that pulling out your firearm is a last resort (as it should be when sober). Just be aware that if you are in a situation where you need to use your firearm after you have consumed alcohol, the alcohol consumption will likely go in the police report. While a clean, justified shoot may save you in a criminal case, the alcohol may go against you in a civil case. As always, IANAL. Please use your head when making this decision.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...tml#post879257

OK, wait. Up there it said something about schools. What about colleges and universities? Is it illegal to carry there?
The moderator team at INGO does not consist of any lawyers. With that fact in mind, we do have some basic concept of the English language and most of us have a fair command of its use. As such, this seems to be the relevant and applicable law:

Quote:
IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.

IC 35-41-1-24.7
"School property" defined
Sec. 24.7. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:
(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).

IC 20-18-2-16
"School corporation"
Sec. 16. (a) "School corporation", for purposes of this title (except IC 20-20-33, IC 20-26-1 through IC 20-26-5, IC 20-26-7, IC 20-30-8, and IC 20-43), means a public school corporation established by Indiana law. The term includes a:
(1) school city;
(2) school town;
(3) school township;
(4) consolidated school corporation;
(5) metropolitan school district;
(6) township school corporation;
(7) county school corporation;
(8) united school corporation; or
(9) community school corporation.
(b) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-26-1 through IC 20-26-5 and IC 20-26-7, has the meaning set forth in IC 20-26-2-4.
(c) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-20-33 and IC 20-30-8, includes a charter school (as defined in IC 20-24-1-4).
(d) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-43, has the meaning set forth in IC 20-43-1-23.
Colleges and universities do not seem to meet the criteria to be called "school property" according to the IC.
Also, if you will be/would like to carry on a college/university campus, there is an excellent organization trying to spread the word about carrying on campuses across the nation: Students for Concealed Carry on Campus - ConcealedCampus.com

So what if I don't have my properly issued and valid LTCH with me and I get stopped?
Fortunately, the law provides for this situation.
Quote:
IC 35-47-2-24
Indictment or information; defendant's burden to prove exemption or license; arrest, effect of production of valid license, or establishment of exemption
Sec. 24. (a) In an information or indictment brought for the enforcement of any provision of this chapter, it is not necessary to negate any exemption specified under this chapter, or to allege the absence of a license required under this chapter. The burden of proof is on the defendant to prove that he is exempt under section 2 of this chapter, or that he has a license as required under this chapter.
(b) Whenever a person who has been arrested or charged with a violation of section 1 of this chapter presents a valid license to the prosecuting attorney or establishes that he is exempt under section 2 of this chapter, any prosecution for a violation of section 1 of this chapter shall be dismissed immediately, and all records of an arrest or proceedings following arrest shall be destroyed immediately.
Note that you will probably still be arrested (although that is not a certainty), and if so, having your arrest record expunged is subject to all of the fun of a typical over-sized bureaucracy. In other words, it may take awhile. Possibly years.

If I take my gun apart, lock the parts all in separate boxes, stow them in the trunk away from the ammo, can I take my gun to the range (or anywhere else) if I don't have my LTCH yet?
No. A gun in parts is still a gun, and in your car is still carrying. Stop trying to find loopholes and just get your License, ya cheapskate.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...in_pieces.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsharmon7
You cannot transport it out to Pop's,
You'll be arrested by the cops.

You cannot transport it in a box,
Nor can you do it using locks.

You cannot transport it all in pieces,
Asking of this question never ceases.

You cannot carry it 'round the bend,
Nevermind what says your friend.

You cannot carry it when unloaded,
Your freedom will be eroded.

You cannot transport it in your trunk,
If you're caught you will be sunk.

If this desire you cannot sate,
The thing to do is simply wait!
What states have reciprocity with Indiana?
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._s_permit.html

I'm not an Indiana resident. Is my CCW/LTCH (resident or non-resident) permit valid in Indiana?
Indiana recognizes licenses from any state or foreign country as long as the holder is not an Indiana resident. Indiana residents must have an Indiana LTCH.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...te_permit.html

I'm moving to Indiana. How do I "establish residency"? (In other words, what act will make my permit from elsewhere no longer valid?)

Quote:
IC 9-13-2-78
Indiana resident
Sec. 78. "Indiana resident" refers to a person who is one (1) of the following:
(1) A person who has been living in Indiana for at least one hundred eighty-three (183) days during a calendar year and who has a legal residence in another state. However, the term does not include a person who has been living in Indiana for any of the following purposes:
(A) Attending a postsecondary educational institution.
(B) Serving on active duty in the armed forces of the United States.
(2) A person who is living in Indiana if the person has no other legal residence.

(3) A person who is registered to vote in Indiana.

(4) A person who has a child enrolled in an elementary or a secondary school located in Indiana.

(5) A person who has more than one-half (1/2) of the person's gross income (as defined in Section 61 of the Internal Revenue Code) derived from sources in Indiana using the provisions applicable to determining the source of adjusted gross income that are set forth in IC 6-3-2-2. However, a person who is considered a resident under this subdivision is not a resident if the person proves by a preponderance of the evidence that the person is not a resident under subdivisions (1) through (4).

(6) A person who:
(A) is enrolled as a student of a truck driver training school;
(B) has legal residence in another state but is living in Indiana temporarily for the express purpose of taking a course of study from the truck driver training school; and
(C) intends to return to the person's state of residence upon completion of the course of study of the truck driver training school.


How do I transport a gun across Illinois (or any other State where my Indiana License is not recognized)?
The Federal Peaceable Journey Statute allows you to transport a handgun through intervening states provided you may legally do so at both the start and end of your journey. For example, you can legally pass through Illinois on your way to Iowa provided you are legal in both Indiana and Iowa. It's been said that anywhere you actually stop (gas, food, etc.) may be considered your "destination," although others have said small stops such as gas and food are still considered "traveling through." That said, Illinois is hostile to gun owners and you may not be able to assert your rights under the statute until after you've been arrested and charged, especially in the Chicago area. Here is the relevant statute:

Quote:
Code of Federal Regulations

Title 18 > Part I > Chapter 44 > § 926a
§ 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms
Release date: 20050803
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any
political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from
transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any
lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any
other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation
the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily
accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle:
Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s
compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the
glove compartment or console.

As always, laws are subject to change, so please seek competent legal advice before your journey.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...hat_is_il.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._illinois.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...s_weekend.html

But what if I'm going TO Illinois, not just passing through? Since Illinois is my destination, the Federal Peaceable Journey Statute doesn't really apply, does it?
It's actually not as complicated as you think. Lock the firearm in a secure container, completely unloaded, but the ammunition CAN be in the same container (even loaded in a magazine... just don't have the mag loaded in the firearm!). Melensdad did some great explaining in this thread here:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...il_friday.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/the_2n...ck_answer.html

Concealed or open carry?
Yes. The Indiana LTCH does not specify whether a gun must be carried openly or concealed, therefore either manner is acceptable and is entirely your personal preference. There are many schools of thought on this, but either way is legal. There are certain areas west of Indianapolis where officials will tell you it is illegal to carry openly, but that is absolutely not true.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...n_hammond.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...pen_carry.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...pen_carry.html

How do I register my handgun or long gun?
Indiana does not have gun registration of any kind. You are not required to register either your handgun or your long gun with any agency.
Last edited by Scutter01; 02-17-2011 at 08:20.. Reason: Added Mel's explanation on driving to and through Illinois

12-21-2008 #4 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


About Guns (in General)
ABOUT GUNS:

Where do I register my guns?
You don't. There is no Indiana state or federal law that requires you to register any of your guns, with the exception of NFA items. If you can legally carry a firearm, chances are pretty good you can legally own a firearm. When you purchase a handgun from an FFL holder (several private citizens as well as every gun shop), you will have to fill out a form and pass a NICS check, which essentially checks to make sure you have no felonies or history of mental illness. If you purchase your firearm from a private individual without an FFL, this is considered a FTF (face-to-face) transaction, and legally requires no paperwork, although many insist it is prudent to give and/or receive a bill of sale (BoS) when doing this sort of transaction. Please note: if you intend to carry your newly purchased, completely unregistered handgun, even just to the range to practice with it, you are required to have a License to Carry a Handgun (LTCH). As always, IANAL. YMMV.

Which is better? Glock, SIG or HK? (All other manufacturers need not apply.)
SIG. But I'm biased. Actually, if you go based on popularity of carry, it's Glock of the 19 variety. /sigh
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handgu...ck_vs_sig.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handgu...e_handgun.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handgu...y_and_how.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handgu...ns_please.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handgu...f_defense.html

What is an NFA item?
Anything that is covered by the National Firearms Act of 1934, such as machine guns, suppressors (aka "silencers"), short-barreled rifles, etc.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/class_...nfa_faq_s.html


So about this Assault Weapon Ban...
Bringing up the AWB of 1994 is a bit of a hot topic around here, especially in light of the current political climate. You'll find dozens of posts where the AWB was brought up and ranted about for pages and pages and pages. Just to give you a taste, here's a thread where a new member brought it up just to "light a fire" so he could make an informed decision in voting for the presidential race.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/politi...be_banned.html


What is the best ammo to carry?
The kind that fits in your gun without blowing up your gun.
On calibers specifically: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_..._-_suarez.html

I was denied on my Form 4473 NICS check, but I haven't done anything to make me ineligible! Now what do I do?
When buying from a dealer as an Indiana resident, you will fill out BATFE Form 4473, which is the National Instant Check System. This is the form that the BATFE will use to do your instant background check to ensure that you are eligible to purchase a firearm. The dealer will provide this form and can answer any questions you have about filling it out.
Once you've completed the form, the dealer will call it in and receive either a "Pass", "Fail", or "Delay". If you pass, you can leave with your firearm as soon as you complete your transaction. If you receive a "Delay", the dealer must sit on the transaction until the BATFE returns a "Pass" or "Fail". The BATFE has 3 business days to respond. If, after 5 days, there is no response, the dealer may then assume "Pass" (although many will deny you the sale without an official "Pass"). Delays happen for many reasons and you should not be alarmed if you receive one. If your 4473 comes back "Fail" and you know that you have nothing in your history that precludes you from owning a firearm, you may submit a Voluntary Appeals Form (VAF) and receive a Unique Personal Identification Number (UPIN). This UPIN may be put on future Form 4473's to prevent any confusion or delays.

Here is the form for the VAF:
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/vafbrocheng.pdf

Also, here are a couple of other useful links from our forums:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...me_way_up.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...et_a_upin.html


Can I sell/purchase a gun out of state?
Handguns through an FFL only. Long guns may or may not be legal, depending on who you ask. USC18 Section 922 suggests even long guns must go through an FFL.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...ate_lines.html


Can I buy a handgun without having a valid LTCH?
Yes. An LTCH is not required to purchase a handgun or a long gun either from a dealer or in a private sale. However, there are tight restrictions on transporting without a license. Please see the rest of this FAQ for more information.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera..._permit-3.html


Where is a good gun shop?
There are lots of great gun shops all over the state. We even have a few that are Advertising Supporters right here on INGO! Support the shops that support your forum! There are many threads discussing each store. Check this sub-forum for reviews:
Local Gun Shops - INGunOwners
Also check out our Advertiser forums:
Support our Sponsors - INGunOwners

Also, here are several more useful links that might help.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/local_...et_sports.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/local_..._supplies.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/local_...adis_guns.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/local_..._-_thanks.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/local_..._firearms.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/local_...fight_but.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...gues_what.html
List of Indiana Gun Shops
Spreadsheet of Indiana Gun Shops
TomTom POI file of Indiana Gun Shops and Ranges


Where is a range close to me?
Applied Ballistics (Lafayette), Atterbury, Wilbur Wright, Pop's Guns, Riley Conservation Club, MCFG, HCFG, Martinsville, or Eagle Creek, to name a few, but there are lots more.
TomTom POI file of Indiana Gun Shops and Ranges

Oh, NO! Some scumbag stole my gun! Can INGO help get it back?
Well, you obviously need to report the theft to your local law enforcement agency, but we have a way to alert your fellow INGO members of the theft so that they can be on the lookout for it. PM a moderator with all of the information and it will be posted to the Official Firearm Theft Report Thread.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...to_report.html
Last edited by Scutter01; 03-15-2011 at 13:26.. Reason: Added NICS denial info

12-21-2008 #5 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


About Women and Guns
ABOUT WOMEN AND GUNS:

My [wife/sister/daughter/girlfriend/mom] [is afraid of/hates/won't talk about] guns. What do I do?
Don't expect a reasonable or quick turn to a firearms fanatic. It takes time, often in the category of "years," definitely not overnight. Ask her why she's afraid of guns. Show her yours if she's willing. Talk about why it's important to learn to defend yourself. This is really a very long discussion, but essentially, go slow, keep talking, don't push. Take an interest in something she enjoys to reciprocate.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/women_...d_of_guns.html

My [female] [needs/wants] her own gun. What should I get her?
Ask her. It needs to be her decision, not yours and not the shopkeeper's. Help her make an informed decision, but it needs to be her decision in the end. And remember: a .22 in the pocket is better than a .45 in the safe.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/women_...your_life.html

Is it possible to truly understand women?
No. Just accept that fact and move on. But, in case you are persistent, here are a few diagrams to nudge you in the right direction: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_...tml#post647601

Help! My wife just joined INGO!
Oddly enough, it does occasionally happen. In some cases, the wife actually joins BEFORE the husband. In either case, when the spouse joins the forum, it is necessary for the husband to celebrate with the purchase of a new firearm for the wife (even if the wife joined first), just so she'll have something to discuss on the forum. Just trust us. It will make your life easier.

I'm not married, but I've seen wimmins before. They're scary, but they have...you know..."curvy bits"...and...stuff, and they look like people I'd like to get to know a LOT better. Can you help me get a date?
Er....you might try coming out to an INGO event or ten. And take a shower first. Maybe put on some clean clothes. Seriously, pull yourself together, man, you've got Cheetohs in your hair.
INGO Events - INGunOwners
Last edited by Scutter01; 09-24-2010 at 05:36.. Reason: My wife just joined INGO

12-21-2008 #6 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


About Shooting With Other People
ABOUT SHOOTING WITH OTHER PEOPLE:

How do I get involved in USPSA?
Quick answer... PM rhino or obijohn.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/shooti...gue_-_act.html

United States Practical Shooting Association
indygunracers.com - home


How do I get involved in IDPA?
Quick answer... PM rhino or obijohn.

International Defensive Pistol Association
indygunracers.com - home


How do I get involved in an Appleseed shoot?
Quick answer.. PM techres or hawkhavn.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/politi...heir_code.html
The Appleseed Project
Appleseed - INGunOwners

What other shooting sports are there?
Check out the Shooting Sports section of the forum to learn more about shooting steel (MCFG has Friday Night Steel matches pretty regularly), skeet, trap, and bowling pin shoots!
Last edited by Scutter01; 03-25-2009 at 16:44.. Reason: Added Appleseed forum

12-21-2008 #7 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


About INGO
RANDOM INGO-ISMS:

Where can I find a list of INGO's forum rules?
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/introd...e_posting.html

Why do I have to have 50 "quality" posts to be able to send a PM to a member or to post in the Classifieds section of the forum? What is a "quality" post anyway?
This is really two separate questions, but they frequently get asked together, so it's a little easier to answer them together.

For the first question: the short answer is "to reduce spam." We created this forum to be a community of firearms enthusiasts in the state of Indiana. It is first and foremost a place where like-minded people can get together and chat about a topic that is relevant to them and that they are passionate about - firearms (of all types). We added the Classifieds section as a perk to our contributing members so that individuals could buy, sell or trade items (not necessarily firearms related) within the Indiana firearms community.

We do not intend for the Classifieds section to become another "Craigslist" or "eBay" for guns. We require 50 "quality" posts because many of our members do not like to do business, especially in regards to firearms, with people they do not know. Posting in other places in the forums can give members an idea of what kind of person you are (in general). You do not have to necessarily post about firearms. You can spend all of your time posting on the silly threads in the Break Room. The idea is to show us a little bit of your personality. You don't have to give us your life history. A small blood sample will suffice.

As far as "quality" of your posts goes, we just want to see something more than a "one-liner" in response to a thread. In some contexts, a "one-liner" is appropriate. For example, if the topic is "What do you carry?" a response of "G19, 3:00" is entirely acceptable. However, 50 "Welcome!" posts in the Intro & Greetings forum may not be construed that way when you yourself are brand new to the forum and then you subsequently head straight to the Classifieds section. In other words, we would like to see a post that actually contributes to the thread and not something that just takes up space.

Just to be clear, any "welcome" post in the Intro forum will be deleted if you do not have 50 quality posts yet and it is not your own intro thread. However, you will find that once you get past the initial water-testing phase, INGO actually has a very welcoming community around here. In fact, one of our members created a whole thread giving a proper welcome for our new members: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_...r_newbies.html. Be sure to check it out!

To help put it in perspective, this was from one of the moderators as we were discussing this particular topic one day:
Quote:
For a new member, it's intimidating. You don't know the social rules yet, and so maybe you sort of "dip your toe in" a little bit as you try to become part of the group. This is why I try to let their posts go past ten so I can see where they go from there. If it's obvious what they're doing, on the other hand, then all bets are off.
Just remember, we are a community that borders on family. Jump in and have fun, and show us who you are before you try to sell us that hot new gun collection you have!

On a lighter note, read this thread and watch the videos in the OP!
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_...ed_before.html

Here's another great thread in case you missed in it the book above:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_...r_newbies.html

YouTube - New INGO Greeting


50 posts?! REALLY?!
Recently, Fenway has decided to offer a way around the 50 post requirement, and that is to become a Site Supporter. His feeling is that becoming a supporter will give you a vested interested in helping the site and reduce the likelihood that you will spam the board. See this link for more info:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/site_s..._are_here.html

What ARE the Classified Rules, anyway?
I'm glad you asked! You can read all about posting in our classified sections right here:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/firear...e_posting.html

Do I need to post pictures in my Classified ad?
No, it's not required. However, it's good business to do so and the other members will invariably ask you for pictures anyway so you might as well. Try to post pictures of the actual item and not a picture grabbed from the manufacturer's website with a caption that says "but it looks just like this!".

I can't figure out how to post pictures!
That's not a question, but I'll try to help anyway. The picture uploading feature on INGO is currently disabled to save bandwidth. You must host pictures offsite for the time being. Please see this thread for a handy tutorial on using a couple different free picture hosting sites:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_..._tutorial.html

When you say we need 50 posts to participate in the Classifieds, what does that mean exactly? I can still buy from people even though I don't have 50 posts yet, right? That's not really participating because you mean I just can't sell in the Classifieds, right?
There's a reason we chose the word "participate."
We didn't say you have to have 50 posts to sell in the Classifieds section.
We didn't say you have to have 50 posts to trade in the Classifieds section.
We didn't say you have to have 50 posts to buy in the Classifieds section.

You have to have 50 posts to participate in the Classifieds section.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dictionary.com
participate
to take part, be or become actively involved, or share
Sooo... Since I can't post in the Classifieds yet, can I discuss politics on INGO?
So far, yes. Please keep discussions civil and leave out the personal attacks. This site is for ALL Indiana Gun Owners, from all walks of life and political beliefs. So far, political discussions (when they have remained specifically about politics) haven't caused too much tension here, and some really interesting and stimulating debate has occurred because of it.

What about politics that involve race? Or just racial discussion in general?
Big Fat No on this one. Discussions that involve race (ANY race: black, white, Native American, Indonesian, Purple, whatever) have become WAY too heated and involved WAY too many personal attacks, causing some very good members to leave the site and never look back (and not necessarily because *they* were the ones offended). In short, racial discussions of any kind are a big no-no.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/site_n...ngo_rules.html

How about religion? Can we talk about that?
Again, a big, resounding NO. And let me be painstakingly clear on this one: ANY discussion of religion will NOT be tolerated. At all. None. If it even hints at being religious in ANY way, the thread will be closed and/or deleted. It is VERY possible MANY infractions will be handed out. In many instances, it is cause for a ban from the site, which may or may not be permanent. Right now, we are being VERY black and white on this. There is NO GREY AREA. This is unfortunate, because like politics, religion has stirred up some very thought-provoking discussions. However, it has also stirred the pot WAY too many times and until everyone can become civil again, Religion Must Not Be Discussed. Even then, it's unlikely to come back. Just. Don't. Do. It.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/site_n...ngo_rules.html

So I can't discuss what I want to? You guys (or sometimes, "Your rules") suck!

We hear that every once in a while. You're certainly welcome to your opinion. Feel free to find a place where you can discuss what you want to, but while you're here, we must insist that you follow our rules- they apply to everyone, and yes, that includes you. Yes, you.
If you're looking for other places that might have different rules where you can still discuss firearms and their ownership specifically created for gun owners in Indiana, other boards can be found by searching Google. We're happy to see the other options and wish them good fortune, though promoting other boards here is discouraged unless they choose to be Advertising Supporters, just like any other business.

Help! So-and-so is pesticating me! (or we're getting into arguments and I'm getting infractions)
We're going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're an adult and therefore expect you to act like one. That should stop the infractions, at least. As for the rest, you can ignore so-and-so by clicking "back" and reading another topic or you can use the handy dandy vBulletin feature for that purpose called, coincidentally, the ignore list. If you add someone to your list, you will not see their posts unless you want to or unless someone else quotes them.

So how do we use this wonderful feature?
I thought you'd never ask. Look up at the top of your screen. See the ? Click on it. No, not this one, the one way up at the top of your screen, silly! OK, yeah, you probably should wait till you've read all the instructions. OK, so once you click it, look on the left side of your screen and you'll see a bar of click commands. The fifth one down under "Settings & Options" is "Edit Ignore List". That's the one you want to click. On the next screen, just add the name of the member you want to ignore and click "Okay". You can't ignore mods or admins and mods can't ignore you with this feature.

So, about this copyright thing... Can I quote even a sentence from another source?
Right now, because of many lawsuits that are going on in the blogosphere, we are requiring that no further content from any off-site source be quoted on INGO unless you can prove immediately without a doubt that you own the copyright or have permission to reprint the material. We don't care if you're a copyright lawyer and you "know better". We don't care if you think you own the material because it's "in the public domain". The point is not up for argument or discussion. If it wasn't personally written by you, then don't post it. If you're looking for a loophole, then you're missing the point. If you're not sure if it's OK to post, PM a mod and ask. If they say "no" and you post it anyway...well, it was nice knowing you.

Rather than put any of our members, the staff, or the site at risk, we would just rather not have quoted material at all. You may still link most other sites. It is STRONGLY recommended that you also include a brief sentence or three about why you feel our members should read the linked article to provide a start for discussion. We are not a news aggregate. We are a site for Indiana Gun Owners to learn more about guns, laws, and training, as well as other subjects pertinent to the average Indiana Gun Owner.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/site_n...ngo_rules.html

What happened to my post? Why was it deleted/edited/moved? Don't you believe in the First Amendment as much as the Second?
This question comes up from time to time. The short answer is that of course we support the First Amendment, but the First Amendment doesn't apply here. Think of it this way: You got invited to a party at someone's house. If you are disruptive or obnoxious, you may be asked to settle down or leave the party. INGO is owned and operated on Fenway's dime and is presented to you 100% free of charge. He has asked that certain topics not be discussed here and that a certain level of civility is maintained. He has charged the moderators with maintaining those rules. In a sense, this is Fenway's house and Fenway's party. This does not mean that you have to agree with everything everyone else says. You just have to follow the rules. Be polite. Don't be disruptive. Don't bring up banned subjects (especially this, as it's hard to run a website when your server has been subpoena'ed).

Eric (Glocktalk's maintainer) put it succinctly in a post on GT not too long ago. It applies to message boards in general:
Quote:
It is an enormously complicated balancing act to keep such a large melting pot of personalities and cultures and ideologies and religions as we have represented in the members here coexisting in anything close to harmony. In order for any society to work, individuals are going to have to conform to a minimum set of standards that the whole society can live with, in order for that society to endure. Anarchy as a societal model does not work. Ask any of the message board communities that have sprung up and were dedicated to having zero rules, many of which were created by people who were pi**ed off at how I run this site. Only, you can't ask any of them, because none of them are still around.
As long as you behave and follow the rules, we'll all be happy. The moderator's job is to ensure that the rules are followed to maintain the integrity of the site. Occasionally that means we need to delete or edit posts. If you can't deal with that, then you shouldn't be on INGO. Asking about the policies is perfectly fine, but if you're just going to complain about it, then please keep it to yourself. We've heard all the complaints and insults (Nazi mods!) before and we don't want to keep hearing them. They haven't changed the board policy yet, they won't in the future, and it'll just lead to you getting banned for being disruptive.

Here is a post from Fenway that might help shed some light on his philosophy and vision for INGO and what he's trying to accomplish:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/site_n...epic_post.html


I can't figure out how to post/edit my settings/PM people/etc.
Check out the Forum Rules/Forum Tips FAQ.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/introd...e_posting.html


What the heck is up with this "bacon" thing?
It's Scutter01's fault.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_..._the_gods.html

Why is someone writing text in purple?
INGO member Paco Bedejo gets the blame for this one. He began highlighting his text in purple to indicate sarcasm (a difficult concept to convey in text-only), and it stuck. We moderators think this trend is totally useless and worthless.

How do I become a Site Supporter?
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/site_n..._are_here.html

Who is in charge of this place anyway?
Fenway.

Who are the Moderators?
Pami, Scutter01, VUPDblue, Spasmo, Bill of Rights, Lars, esrice, Que, and danielocean03.

How do you identify an INGO member out in the "real world"?
They talk in purple. Or, they might have an INGO bumper sticker on their cars. Or they might be wearing a super cool INGO hat or t-shirt. Or they might have a bright yellow INGO chamber flag hanging out somewhere (like in their daughter's Barbie trucks). But don't you DARE call them out on it. Be sure to make the sacred peace offering first: offer them bacon.

Does INGO ever have any meet-and-greet type events?
Just a few. In no particular order whatsoever (more like, in the order we thought of them...), here are some of our past events:


INGO NFA Day 2008 -- BEST EVENT EVAR!
INGO NFA Day Alumni Shoot 2009 -- WATERMELONS!!!
INGO NFA Day 2009
INGO NFA Day 2010
INGO NFA Day Alumni Shoot 2010 - Featuring Papa Roux po' boys. That's right. Papa Roux. And you missed it.

INGO Class with Shay VanVlymen -- Basic Pistol Class at Eagle Creek Pistol Range

1st Annual 2008 INGO Mosin Nagant group Shoot - Mosin Shoot at Hamilton County Fish & Game
2nd Annual 2009 INGO Mosin Nagant Group Shoot - Now more Mosinier!

AR15 Build Party - A couple of our resident NFA experts got together with some AR newbies and helped them build out some ARs.

Open Carry Breakfast in Terre Haute

Big Ugly Challenge at Bub's in Carmel plus photos

Basic Class by Matt Pierce - May 10

IDPA Match at Hamilton County Fish & Game - A match where some of our members met the nice folks at HCFG

2009 INGO Family Picnic at ECPR

2010 INGO AR-15 Open House

There are numerous others... just keep your eyes open for them!


So when is the next INGO Get Together?
That depends on when you organize it!

Keep your eyes peeled for random shoots hosted by Moderators, Site Supporters, and other members! You never know when someone might be looking for a range buddy or six. Many members are now organizing monthly breakfasts and dinners to get to know the other members in your area. Hamilton County, Johnson County, NWI Indiana, Bloomington, and Evansville all have strong groups that meet frequently. Check out the INGO Events forum for the next great event!

Will INGO have a table at the next 1500?
Yes. Come with cash -- Fenway will have hats and patches and various other INGO swag for sale!

Where can I get one of those super cool INGO hats?
Weren't you paying attention? We just mentioned it. Go up one line.

What does [insert favorite acronym here] mean?
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_..._acronyms.html
Some popular ones:
FTF = Face to Face, or Failure to Feed/Fire, depending on the subject
INGO = Indiana Gun Owners website
IANAL = I am not a lawyer
SHTF = Stuff Hits the Fan (hey, it's a PG13 site, ok?)
WTS/WTB/WTT = Want to Sell/Buy/Trade
NIB = New in Box
LNIB = Like NIB
AAR=After Action Review (a report of what happened)
NSFW/NSFK=Not Safe For Work/Not Safe For Kids (language, violence, sexual situations. Be forewarned)
EDC: Every Day Carry (the gun/knife/flashlight(s) you carry with you every day)

Click this bar to view the full image.


When a group of INGOers gets together, what am I supposed to call it?
The preferred nomenclature is "A baconing of INGOers". Also, please note for the official record that Pami is neither "old" nor "a fart".
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/forum_...tml#post518531


At the bottom of the home page it says Active Users, (Members, Guests, and Spiders). What is a Spider?
In this case, a Spider is an automated program that traverses the mysterious interwebs in search of pertinent information that goes into a fancy algorithm to make YOUR words show up in search engines like Google, Yahoo, etc. In other words, the spiders are indexing the pages of INGO so that we show up when someone searches for things like "gun laws Indiana" or "glock 19 for sale Indiana" or "bacon." (Ok, so *maybe* INGO isn't on the first page of results for "bacon." But we should be!!!!)

If that isn't explanatory enough, check out this thread:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_..._a_spider.html
and especially this one:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_...r_instead.html

This is also a spider, and it was an uninvited party crasher at NFA Alumni Day 2010. It required a whole belt through the MM23E to destroy:


INGO needs a live chat!
No matter how many times you request it, the answer will always be NO. We've tried it and it's Teh Suck. Occasionally, a member will start a channel offsite and it will run for a couple of days and then close down. It's generally interesting while it's up. Keep your eyes peeled for threads about it as it comes and goes.

What is a Shill Account?
A shill account is any account you have created after your first initial registration. It is often used by those who have been banned. It is also used to impersonate other individuals or falsely represent one’s self. These accounts will be banned permanently and your initial username may be temporarily banned.

I already have an account. May I create a new one? (Sometimes called a Shill Account)
No, you may not. You are allowed one and only one account. If you have created an account and are unhappy with the username, please send a PM to the moderator(s). Please include why you want it to be changed and what you want it to be changed to. The more information you can provide, the better we will be able to assist you.

What happens if I create another account?
The new one you create will be banned permanently. Your original username may receive a temporary ban as well.

I have two accounts but am only using one. What should I do?
Please inform a moderator and we'll close the account you're not using. If you are caught with two accounts without informing the staff, the newest one will be closed. If you let us know ahead of time we're a lot more likely to be lenient with your remaining account.

May I have my membership canceled/account deleted?
We do not cancel memberships or delete accounts. If you do not want to use your account anymore, please just stop using it.

Where is _________?
If you're looking for a specific member, go to the member list and search by their name (that is, if you're looking for, say, Fenway, look under F.) If that person's name is no longer there, it means either that they've requested and received a name change or that they've been banned. Alternatively, you can use "search" to try to find some post of theirs. If under their name is the title "Shooter", they are banned. In some cases, it is possible that the ban is temporary (as in a few days, generally). In others, it is not.
Bans of members are not subject to debate or discussion.

May I have my name changed?
Username change requests are approved on a per user basis. If you are granted a name change, you will receive one and only one. Please send a PM to the moderator(s). Please include why you want it to be changed and what you want it to be changed to. The more information you can provide, the better we will be able to help you. If you are rejected, you will receive an email from one of the moderators. Please do not yell at this moderator. They are just doing their job. You may calmly ask them why it was rejected but being nice will get you a lot further than being rude.
Last edited by Pami; 04-08-2011 at 19:59.. Reason: Moved "where is ______?"

01-18-2009 #8 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


Getting Training
GETTING TRAINING

Training is important as it is a key element of responsible gun ownership. Train early and often, especially if you choose to carry your firearm as a self-defense weapon. Learning how you react to stressful situations should not learned as "on the job" training. Learn how you will react BEFORE you need to react.

Why should I get formal training?
It's great that you have decades of experience with your firearms. It's awesome that your Marine-trained dad taught you everything you know. But, have you ever had to USE that informal training in a real life scenario? Do you KNOW without a doubt how you will react in a real life situation?

During some down-time in a personal training session I had recently, my trainer related a few stories to me about some force-on-force classes he had taught in the past.

One gentleman he trained found out that he stops listening when put into a stressful situation. His focus was so completely on what was going on in front of him that he stopped listening to what was going on behind him. Even if an instructor was standing right beside his ear, this student didn't hear the instructor. This is bad because (as an example) if police do come on to the scene and shout for you to drop your gun, you need to drop your gun. This gentleman learned that because his ability to hear evaporated during stress, he needed to work on extending his other senses like being more aware of his peripheral vision to acknowledge the lights of police vehicles or noticing additional BGs coming up behind him.

Do you really KNOW how you will react when under stress? As many of your actions as possible need to be trained and practiced so they become second nature. If your gun fails, you need to automatically tap-rack-bang. If the bang part doesn't happen, drop the mag and put a new one in without thinking about it. Get back in the fight. Move while you're clearing your malfunction. Quality training will provide you with instructors who generally have spent years learning about and teaching the most effective techniques to keep you in the fight if you can't defuse the situation. Being in an actual fight is not the best time to find out what your weaknesses are. Get training frequently and practice often.

I've taken trainings where the class members ranged from complete newbies (usually me) to people who have been shooting for years but have had no formal training to people who have had over 600 hours of formal instruction. Every single time, every single person has taken at least one thing away from the class and found it worth every penny he (or she) paid for the class. Even if you take away what not to do in a situation, you learned something.

Where do I get training?
Check out the Tactics & Training forum. There are a lot of options as far as training goes: some are good and others are not so good. If you are completely new to guns, or even new to just handguns or just long guns, it is strongly recommended that you at least check out a NRA Basic class. From there you can move on to use-specific types of training, such as defensive pistol training by Tactical Response, TDI, Gunsite, etc. Some schools offer trainings on shooting sports in addition to their defensive courses, like our own ACT. For someone new to shooting long guns, the Appleseed program is an excellent source of training as well. There are a lot of options for just about everything; take advantage of as many opportunities as you can! A single well-placed round is a lot more effective than a magazine of rounds that miss.

A couple of links to some training companies we've discussed in threads on this forum (in no particular order)

Mindset Laboratory
Indy Gun Safety
Adaptive Consulting & Training
Dignitary Protection Group, LLC (DPG) - Home
Tactical Response
MODERN COMBATIVE SYSTEMS - Self Defense Training for Civilians, Military and Law Enforcement Agencies - Open Hand, Stick, Knife and Pistol
MDFI - Home
Gunsite- NRA firearms training pistol carbine rifle
Tactical Defense Institute
Defense Training International, Inc.
E.A.G. Tactical
Front Sight Firearms Training Institute
Suarez International USA, Inc.
Realistic and Practical Firearms Training

Just remember when looking for a company to train with that what you take away from the class depends most on the open mind you take to it. Even the same course offered by the same instructor at the same range by the same company may give you something different just based on how receptive you were to the material and/or how your classmates received the material. Not all classmates are the same; not all instructors are the same; not all courses are the same; and not every company is the same!


Should training be required to own a firearm?
There are a lot of opinions on this. Some die-hard gun enthusiasts will say that some form of training should be required in order to receive a license to carry or to purchase a firearm. Others who are training junkies themselves will say that requiring training is just a crutch: those who understand the importance of training would seek it out anyway, and those who take the training solely because it's required won't get anything out of the required training anyway. That is something that you will have to decide for yourself, but here is a couple of threads where we have discussed it before:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactic..._training.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...d_testing.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_...uirements.html
Last edited by Scutter01; 09-24-2010 at 06:05.. Reason: Added new required training poll thread

07-15-2009 #9 (permalink)
Pami
INGO Mom




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Next to Lars
Posts: 5,494


The INGO FAQ
The INGO FAQ

Why doesn't INGO have a FAQ with questions that seem to be asked often around here?
Amazingly enough, INGO does actually have a FAQ. It was officially stickied in January 2009, and is periodically updated by the Moderators of this forum. As soon as we can remember where we put it, we'll post a link.

Where can I find a link to the INGO FAQ?
Most Moderators actually have a link to the FAQ in their signatures. Just find a post by a Moderator and click the link!

Or, if you can't seem to find a post by a Moderator, you might try actually clicking the big green FAQ button on the far right of the button links at the top of every single page. On that page, click the super-sized, bolded link that says, "The Official INGO FAQ (START HERE FIRST!!!)." Once you click through to the next page, click the super-sized, bolded link at the top of the page that states, "Click here for the INGO FAQ!"

I know that seems really complicated, but the FAQ button at the top of every single page simply goes to the standard vBulletin forum FAQ, which has absolutely nothing to do with this particular INGO forum.

When someone asks a question, why do people direct them to the FAQ, rather than just answer them?
This is the primary reason for having a FAQ, or "Frequently Asked Question" list in the first place, because the questions are asked frequently and the answers are typed out in more detail than someone might remember on his or her own. In addition, the usual follow-up questions are also answered in close proximity and it just saves everyone's time to allow for more talking about guns. Of course, some people consider it rude to do this and we're aware of that fact. Quite simply, we know that we can please some of the people some of the time and we can please some (others) of the people none of the time. That latter group is welcome to their opinions. The fact that we disagree with them does not seem to dissuade them in the least from repeating those opinions both vociferously and incessantly.

I couldn't find the answer to a commonly asked question in the FAQ. Can I submit a request for it to be added?
Of course you can! Just go to this thread (CLICK HERE) and submit your request. Actually posting an answer and relevant links to threads about your question will get the question/answer added a lot faster!

Oh, and just in case you actually did NOT find the answer to your question (about INGO, anyway), check out this thread for answers (and a whole lot of mod-lovin's). If the question wasn't answered in the FAQ already, I think this thread covers it.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_..._off_ingo.html
Last edited by Bill of Rights; 02-19-2011 at 15:02.. Reason: Why FAQ? added.

10-19-2009 #10 (permalink)
Scutter01
Living the dream




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: At the combination Pizza Hut and Taco Bell
Posts: 15,346

Gun Shows
Are there any gun shows in my area this weekend?
Here's a website that keeps track of some shows. We can't track them all for you, so you're on your own. Keep an eye in the threads, though. People usually talk about the good ones a week before they come up.
Indiana Gun Shows

When is the next Indy 1500?
Welcome to the Indy 1500 Gun & Knife Show

How much does it cost to get in?
Parking is usually $5 and admission is $10. If you sign up for their mailing list, you'll get a postcard in the mail a week before the next show for a dollar off admission.
Welcome to the Indy 1500 Gun & Knife Show

Which building is it in?
The 1500 generally alternates between the South Pavilion and the West Pavilion. Check their website for more info. Frankly, it's not hard to figure it out once you get down there.

Will INGO have a table there?
Maybe. Definitely possibly. Watch for an announcement from Fenway a week before the show. We don't usually have a table at the regional shows, but the 1500 is much more likely.

Will there be any cool INGO swag?
Maybe. Definitely possibly. Fenway usually tries to have some nifties for sale, but they won't always be announced ahead of time. Also, don't expect the same things as the previous show. If you missed out on that cool t-shirt or patch at the last show, you might not have another chance. Get it while you can.

Can I carry my self-defense gun into a gun show?
Virtually all gun shows require you to unload all guns PRIOR to entering the show. Unload outside and then present your guns to the people manning the tables inside. They will zip-tie them for you. Be sure you do not present them noisy-end first as people don't generally like having a gun pointed at them, unloaded or otherwise! Note that "unloaded" is usually taken to mean that the magazine is empty of rounds, too.

At the Indy 1500, the zip tie will be a different color from the vendor zip ties. They serve as a sort of receipt to show that the gun is yours upon exiting the facility.

Can I carry any other gun into a gun show?
Yes. Many people bring their guns to the shows to sell or trade. See the part above regarding zip-tying.

How do I go about selling or trading my gun at a gun show?
Again, making sure to get your gun zip-tied is a requirement. Many people like to make a sign and either pin it to their back, or tape it to a dowel to insert in the barrel (in the case of a long gun).

Indiana Statute requires that the person you sell a handgun to in a face-to-face transaction must be 18 years old and an Indiana resident. Furthermore, you may not sell a gun to a person prohibited from owning one. Since you have no way of performing a background check, you may prefer to have an FFL broker the trade for you and perform a NICS check. Otherwise, many people ask to see a driver's license to verify residency and age, and an LTCH to make at least a token effort to verify if the buyer is a "proper person". If the buyer resides in another state, the sale must go through an FFL. The FFL will have full details about the requirements and procedures. You should also plan to write out a receipt for the sale. Have two copies, one for you and one for the buyer. He may need it to get out of the building with his new purchase, and you may need it for your records.

In general, face-to-face sales can happen inside or outside the show. Most gun shows have a sign asking you not to sell in front of the door as it usually blocks traffic.

Will there be food at the show?
I've never been to a gun show yet that didn't serve food of some kind. In general, the food is concession-stand prices. Be prepared to pay for it.

What's the best way to make a good deal?
Cash is king! Dealers who see you walk up with cash in hand (not credit cards) will be far more likely to cut you a deal. Remember, if you don't buy it, they have to haul it back to their shop on Sunday. Don't be afraid to haggle, but don't be a jerk about it either. Some dealers don't bargain.

Take along a small notebook. Note the price and location when you find an item you're interested in. Ask if the price is good all day or if it goes up when you walk away from the table. If you decide to continue to shop, you'll be able to find your way back to the table later on.

(Psst! Some dealers are INGO advertising supporters and will cut you a special INGO deal if you ask them about it...)

I don't have my LTCH yet. If I buy a gun at the show, can I take it home?
Per IC 35-47-2-2 (clause 11), one of the exceptions to licensed carry is that you are allowed to bring a handgun home from the place of purchase provided it is unloaded and in a "secure wrapper". The IC doesn't specify what a "Secure wrapper" is, but it's generally thought to mean a locked hard-shelled case such as a lock box or the plastic case most handguns ship in.

Note that you are not authorized to make side-trips on the way home. Not even to stop for a coke at McDonald's. See the previous sections of this FAQ for more information.

Of course, long guns don't require a license at all, so you're good to go either way for that.

 

[RelicHound]

About Reputation or "rep"
What is reputation? How do you get one? How do you know if you have gotten one?
When you find someone else's post you either like (maybe for giving good information, maybe it made you laugh, maybe you just felt like giving positive rep) or dislike, (opposite of the above (duh, Bill!)) you can click on the symbol on the post and either "I agree" or "I disagree" with it. You can also leave a comment with that. At some point, you will be told you have reached the limit of how many you may give in a 24-hour period, or you may also be told that you have to "spread it around" before you may rep a specific member again. This is to prevent what's called "rep whoring" or rep trading. (that's asking to be repped or offering to trade one for another.) There is no policy against rep "whoring" or against trades, but some see it as devaluing the benefit to the community of having that system to tell how much weight to give someone's opinion.

It shows up below the person's name who wrote the post, either with , , , , , or and , , , symbols, unless they've disabled reputation, which requires administrator-level access. At this writing, I've only seen two people on INGO, ever, with that done, and both are moderators. If it's disabled, under your name or in the member list will be a .

As for your own, you'll see that up under the "Welcome" text on the upper right of your INGO window, just below where it says, "Private Messages".

You can also go back and read up to the most recent 30 comments you've gotten by clicking on up top. Positive rep may have a comment attached. Negative rep requires that SOMEthing be typed in the comment field. It's certainly more helpful to the person receiving it to know why they got it, but yes, it is possible to only enter a . in the comment field and neg-rep someone.

Do note that in the UserCP, you might see a next to a rep comment. This means that you have gotten rep from someone who is new or whose own rep is not high enough to give you any points either way, and amounts to neutral, neither positive nor negative. The amount of rep you give at a time is a function of your time on INGO, how many posts you've made, and what your own reputation is, and may have something to do with either portents told in the entrails of a dead bird or with the price of tea in China as well

Each or is worth 100 points (negative and positive, respectively), each or is 200 (after the first one), again, negative and positive, respectively, and each is 300 (again, after the first). The is positive only. You can have up to fifteen total "pip"s, then you get a or and the whole thing starts all over again. Lather, rinse, repeat for and as well. You may earn up to five of each badge/star/whatever
Therefore, a full rep bar would show



or




It's probably fair to expect you'd be banned long before you ever got close to your first , though, since if what you're saying is THAT unpopular, it's probably been personally insulting to some members as well, and that, among other things, gets into the realm of warnings, infractions, and temporary and permanent bans... which is another thing altogether.

Confused yet?
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Last edited by Bill of Rights; 01-15-2011 at 13:19..

09-23-2010 #12 (permalink)
Scutter01
Living the dream




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: At the combination Pizza Hut and Taco Bell
Posts: 15,346

Shipping a Firearm
This FAQ is currently under construction and may not be complete or accurate. Please see the following thread for discussion regarding this FAQ:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...a_firearm.html

The term "firearm" in the context of this FAQ refers to the serialized portion (such as the frame or receiver). By "serialized" and "un-serialized", we mean the part that's considered a "gun", not just any part that happens to have a serial number. In other words, whatever part would require a Form 4473 if you were to purchase it from an FFL. Everything else can be considered "machine parts" or whatever other nomenclature you prefer. As with the rest of this FAQ, this is not legal advice, we are not lawyers, etc.

What must I do to ship a pistol or a rifle to another Indiana resident?
Rifles may be shipped via USPS. Pistols may not be shipped via USPS, but must be shipped via Common Carrier (e.g. UPS, FedEx, etc.). In either case, an FFL is not required to be involved in this process. For USPS, Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation is recommended but not required. You may also select "Signature Required" and purchase insurance as well, if you like.
What must I do to ship a pistol or a rifle to a resident of another state?
Same as above, but the destination must be an FFL in that resident's home state. Note that you can ship to yourself in another state without having an FFL involved.
What must I do to ship a pistol or a rifle to an FFL (such as back to the manufacturer, or to an FFL in another state)?
You may ship directly to an FFL, following the rules as above.
Do these rules cover a whole gun? What if I want to ship just the serialized receiver? How about just the un-serialized frame/barrel/stock/etc.?
If you're just shipping a receiver, the rules above apply. If you're just shipping, say, an un-serialized barrel, it ships like any other package.
Must ammunition follow the rules listed above, or are there special provisions?
Loaded Ammunition:

Best advice: ship ammo UPS. You can NOT send ammo USPS. Must be declared by DOT regulations. Shipping carton will get a sticker. You can not ship ammo larger than .50 caliber or 8 Gauge.
How to Ship Ammunition or Ammo

Shipping powder and primers:

Incurs a HazMat fee (~$24 for up to 50 pounds); powder and primers can be mixed.

Shipping brass cases, bullets, or other non-hazardous components:

Brass cases and bullets are not regulated. For bullets, flat rate box @ USPS with adequate inner pack is the cheapest route.

Can I ship anything gun-related via USPS?
Yes. You may ship rifles via USPS either in-state or out-of-state. You may also ship parts.
What is a "common carrier" and which ones can I use?
A common carrier is a shipper other than the USPS. UPS and FedEx are the two used most often. They will both ship firearms. UPS and FedEx both require you to use Overnight Delivery for firearms shipments.
Which one is the best/cheapest/easiest to work with?
Do all "satellite" offices accept firearms or must I ship them through a "hub" office?
Satellite offices are often privately-owned (e.g. Mailboxes Etc., The UPS Store, and so on). They are not required to ship your firearm but many of them will with no issues.
How can I find out which satellite offices will accept my firearm?
The easiest way is to call them or stop by. Some people have reported that it can vary even from employee to employee. It's best to ask the store manager or owner directly. Try to get his/her name if possible in case the counter clerk disagrees.
About how much can I expect to pay to ship my firearm?
For USPS, a small Priority package (such as for just a receiver) with delivery confirmation is around $10, depending on weight. A full-length rifle will be more expensive. If you use the USPS-provided boxes, it can be cheaper.
For UPS/FedEx, Overnight delivery can be in the $50-$100 range. If you are shipping to the manufacturer for warranty service, try to get them to send you a shipping label so it's on their dime and not yours.
Tips and tricks:

Package but do not seal the package. You will need to declare that you are shipping a firearm and the shipper has the right to inspect the contents. You may wish to disassemble it or field-strip it to make it evident that it's unloaded without having to handle it.
Do not put anything on the outside of the package that indicates the contents. Package as discreetly as possible, including abbreviating the addressee: e.g. "S&W" instead of "Smith & Wesson". Do not allow the shipper to place any stickers or notes on the outside of the package indicating the contents.
The ATF FAQ regarding shipping firearms has additional information: ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons
Last edited by Scutter01; 09-26-2010 at 08:36..

03-25-2011 #13 (permalink)
Scutter01
Living the dream




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: At the combination Pizza Hut and Taco Bell
Posts: 15,346

All About NFA
What is NFA?

NFA refers to the National Firearms Act of 1934, and covers regulation of items such as full-auto machine guns, suppressors (silencers), short-barreled rifles, etc.

Which NFA items are legal in Indiana?
In indiana, the only NFA item that is not legal is the SBS, or Short Barreled Shotgun.

MG's, or Machine guns, are legal.
SBR's, or Short Barreled Rifles, are legal.
Suppressors, or silencers, are legal.
DD's, or Destructive Devices, are legal, though explosive DD's are not legal.
AOW's, or Any Other Weapons, are legal.
SBS's, or Short Barreled Shotguns, are not legal.

How do I acquire NFA items?
There is no blanket "license" to own NFA items for non-dealer individuals. For each item that you want to purchase, you must pay the Federal Government a one-time $200 transfer tax. This happens when you go to transfer a machine gun or suppressor or any other NFA item from a dealer, or if in-state, an individual. You submit the application for transfer (in duplicate) along with $200 to the NFA division of the BATFE and upon approval, you can take possession of your item. Along with your submission of the appropriate transfer form, you must also submit a Citizenship Certification, a set of your fingerprints (taken by a qualifying agency, and in duplicate) and the transfer form must be signed by your Chief Local Law Enforcement Officer. It sounds complicated, but rest assured that it is not. In most jurisdictions in Indiana, obtaining the CLEO sign-off is as easy as walking into the police station and asking to see the Chief/Sheriff, however there is a more formalized process in Indianapolis that takes more on the order of a couple weeks to complete.

What, exactly, is the $200.00 that is paid to the ATF? Is it a tax on the purchase of the item? Is it a transfer fee? Or is it a license fee?
The $200 (or $5, in the case of an AOW) is a tax on the transfer of Title II firearms, in the case of transfer (Form 4 used to apply for transfers)

Or, it is a tax on the manufacturing of Title II firearms, if you're making one (Form 1 used to apply for making)

If it's a tax on the transfer or manufacturing then why doesn't a dealer have to pay it on each item?
The dealer has opted to pay the tax as a "Special Occupations Tax" (or SOT). This means he is in the business of dealing with these items, has the proper manufacturing or dealer's FFLs and he is permitted to pay an annual tax to transfer or manufacture as many Title II firearms as he would like.

Do I have to pay the tax every year?
No. It's a one-time tax paid at the time of transfer (or construction).

What exactly is a Machine gun?
Sounds like a dumb question, but it is not.

Quote:
Section 5845(b) of the NFA defines “machine gun” as
“any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot,
automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the
trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part
designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and
intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machine gun, and any combination of
parts from which a machine gun can be assembled
This means that the part that causes an otherwise semi-auto firearm to become a machine gun is itself the 'machine gun'. The popular examples of this being the Drop In Auto Sear and the Lightning Link for the AR series of rifles. These items by themselves are just hunks of metal, but by definition, they are a machine gun because of what they are designed to do. The nuts and bolts of it are that if you pull the trigger one time and more than one round goes off, you have yourself a machine gun.
While machine guns are legal to own, only machine guns manufactured and registered before May 19, 1986 are legal. Every machine gun that is legal for a non-dealer person to possess was manufactured 20+ years ago. This is why the price is so high. What there is is all there is. There can never be any new ones.

What exactly is a Short-Barreled Rifle (SBR)?
By definition a short barreled rifle, or SBR, is a rifle (which is defined as a shoulder-fired, rifled bore firearm) with a barrel length of less than 16", or an overall length of less than 26". In measuring barrel length you do it from the closed breech to the muzzle. On a folding stock weapon you
measure with the stock extended, provided the stock is not readily
detachable, and the weapon is meant to be fired from the shoulder. The rules are pretty cut-and-dry as to the definition of a SBR. If the overall length with stock is less than 26" you have an SBR. If the barrel itself is less than 16" you have an SBR. You can still buy or manufacture SBR's. You can buy one by filing a Form 4 or you can make one yourself by filing a Form 1 (we'll get to that later).

What is a Suppressor (silencer)?
Quote:
18 U.S.C. 921(a)(24)
The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing,
muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination
of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating
a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such
assembly or fabrication.
Pretty specific here. If it makes your gun quieter, it is a silencer. At least one report that I have seen lists the reason for adding them to the NFA was for fear of poaching during the depression years, not for fear of them being used in other street crime. There is no "cutoff date" for legal suppressors. Suppressors are still being manufactured, and you can own a brand-spankin'-new one if you wish. In fact, suppressor technology is still evolving and there are units out there that are very efficient (read: quiet).

What is a Destructive Device?
A destructive device (DD) can be two basic categories of things. It can be an explosive, incendiary or poison gas weapon, like a bomb or grenade. It can also be a firearm with a bore over 1/2" with exceptions for sporting shotguns, among other things. I call the second category large bore destructive devices. As a general rule only this second category is commercially available. Some obvious items I can think of are 37mm and 40mm launchers, and the Striker-12 & Streetsweeper shotguns. This category does contain some of the most subjective language in the NFA. The Striker-12 and Streetsweepers were ruled to be DD's and thus part of the NFA not because of any measurable characteristic, but because they were "declared" not to be suitable for any sporting purpose. The Strikers were banned from importation and the ones already owned were ordered to be registered (tax free at the time) or destroyed. The language used in the definition of a DD in the United States Code says: Destructive device.--The term "destructive device" means * * * any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary or his delegate finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; ..." This is where subjectivity comes into play. If the Sec. doesn't like it, then it is no longer a shotgun, but a DD.

What is a Short Barreled Shotgun?
Let's examine the definition first. A Short Barreled Shotgun, or SBS, is defined as any shotgun (which is defined as a shoulder fired (read "has a stock" this is important), smooth bore firearm) with a barrel of less than 18"or an overall length of less than 26", or any weapon made from a shotgun falling into the same length parameters. There is always some confusion as to whether a weapon is a SBS or an Any Other Weapon (AOW). We'll get to that later, but if your weapon has a smooth bore, a shoulder stock, and has a barrel less than 18" or an overall length of less than 26", then you have an SBS, and those are not legal in Indiana.

What is an Any Other Weapon (AOW)?
Any other weapons (AOW's) are a number of things; smooth bore pistols, any pistol with more than one grip, gadget type guns (cane gun, pen gun) and shoulder fired weapons with both rifled and smooth bore barrels between 12inches and 18inches, that must be manually reloaded. This category always causes some confusion. I'll provide some examples to try and clarify things. A weapon is an AOW and not an SBS if the weapon never had any kind of stock attached. If a virgin (shotgun) receiver was delivered without a stock, has a barrel length of less than 18inches and registered with the NFA, then it is an AOW. As soon as you ad a stock, it becomes a SBS. This is a bad thing, because the AOW's transfer with only a $5 tax. Uncle sam will want his $195 if you want to put a shoulder stock on. You cannot go from an AOW to an SBS without re-registering. You can, however, remove a stock from a registered SBS and put a pistol-grip on without penalty, it's still an SBS. The important part is how the receiver started it's life.**I'll add more info to this one as time permits.**

Because I own NFA items, Can ATF search my home?
No they cannot. Individuals who legally own NFA items are NOT subject to random inspections from ATF. This is a huge misconception of the NFA laws. Agents from ATF cannot conduct any sort of checks of your premises without a warrant. This, of course, does not apply to licensed dealers, however.

Which form do I need to use?
There are many forms to be used when dealing in firearms. NFA owners need be familiar with only five. They are Forms 1,3,4 & 5, as well as the Declaration of Citizenship.

Form 1: A Form 1 is an application to make and register a firearm. If you wanted to, for example, make your AR15 into a Short Barreled Rifle, you would need to file a Form 1. Even though your AR15 is already a complete rifle, you are "making" it into an NFA item, thus the application to "make and register" it. Any time you "make" an existing firearm into an NFA firearm, you would use this form. Form 1's require a $200 tax.
Form 1 link
Form 3: A Form 3 is a dealer-to-dealer transfer of an NFA firearm. Lets say I wanted to buy a suppressor from a dealer in another state. I would have to get that dealer to transfer the suppressor to a dealer in my state before I could have it transferred to me. Form 3's usually get processed in a matter of days or a week, not nearly as long as transfers to non-dealer individuals. Form 3's do not require any tax be paid.

Form 4: A Form 4 is an application for tax-paid transfer of a firearm. When you go to buy an NFA item, whether it be from a dealer or an individual in your state, you use a Form 4. If you go to your local dealer and decide you want to buy a suppressor, you must first file a Form 4 in order to have that suppressor transferred from your dealer to you. Form 4's require a $200 tax for all NFA items, except AOW's. If the item being transferred is an AOW, the tax is $5.
Form 4 link
Form 5: A Form 5 is an application for tax-exempt transfer of a firearm. Form 5's are most commonly used to will a firearm upon the death of the owner. If your Grandfather passes-on and leaves you his Thompson SMG, you must file a Form 5 before you can take possession of the firearm. Form 5's do not require any tax be paid.
Form 5 link
Declaration of Citizenship: This is a form that certifies you as an American citizen or otherwise legally allowed to be in the country. Officially called the Certification of Compliance with 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B), ATF form 5330.20

I don't know how to get started with my first NFA item. Where do I start?
See this thread for a first-time NFA buyer's experience, detailing the entire process from start to finish, of buying a suppressor.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/class_...rspective.html
Last edited by Scutter01; 03-25-2011 at 06:12..

03-29-2011 #14 (permalink)
Scutter01
Living the dream




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: At the combination Pizza Hut and Taco Bell
Posts: 15,346

I wanna get my FFL so I can buy guns cheeep!
From this thread:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/genera...41476-ffl.html

I'm tired of going to gun stores and I want my own FFL so that I can have guns shipped direct to my house and pay wholesale costs. How do I get my FFL?

This topic comes up quite frequently and as an individual who, up until December 2010, had their (01) FFL and ran my business out of my home let me see if I can shed some light onto the subject and help as many people out as I can.

Things To Think about:


First and foremost there are a few things one must think about prior to making the decision to move forward with the FFL application. These things include but are not limited to:
Why do you want/need an FFL?
Many folks have the idea (myself included in the beginning) that with an FFL you’ll be able to purchase firearms for yourself at a significant discount over what you could purchase them for in a big box store (GM) or even a firearms shop (name your favorite one). The reality however your savings is only around 1% - 2%. Why? There is a multitude of reasons for this:
Many firearms distributors will not work with non-stocking dealers or dealers without a store-front (these two factors need to be proven to the distributors in order to become a customer of theirs)
Those distributors that you can work with will not provide you the same discount (based upon volume that your purchasing) that they will for stocking dealers and dealers that they’ve worked with for many years. (i.e. your dealer price is closer to street prices than the big box stores or local firearms shops
Most distributors do flat rate shipping no matter how many firearms you’re purchasing and most ship overnight or two-day which costs more. So now you must add your already higher dealer price with the shipping price and you’re nearly at the street price for the firearm.
NOT ALL FIREARMS ARE AVAILABLE... As a non-stocking dealer and one that doesn't place a significant number of orders, you will not be high on the priority list for what is called RESERVED which means that there are very few and they are being held for high priority customers only and as such it is hard to actually get your hands on one. (example right now would be the new Kimber 9mm, Sig P238, etc)
Many folks think that they also get away without paying sales tax but this is also a myth. Dealers who decide to take inventory out for their own personal use, pay use-tax which in the state of Indiana is also 7% which means once again that you’re paying virtually the same as if you purchased the firearm from your local shop or online.
I will no longer have to pay FFL fees for firearms that I have transferred in and it’s convenient because they can ship them directly to me.
Although this may be convenient, remember that you’re still paying a use tax (or you should be) on each of these firearms as they are being taken out of your inventory for your personal use. In addition, this cannot be your only reason for opening a firearms business (i.e. FFL) as the BATFE requires you to mark a box on the application stating that you are doing this in order to make a profit (i.e. run a business not just collect firearms)
Running a business out of your home:
Another aspect that many don’t think about is the fact that they are running a firearms business out of their home and the implications that result from doing this.
First and foremost the county/township, that you live in must approve (zoning board) that they will allow such a business within your home/development, etc
You MUST have hours of operation! This again is on the FFL application and must be filled out. These hours of operation are used by the BATFE in order to make surprise visits to your business (i.e. home) in order to check on your documentation and business practices.
This is a business and if you’re in it to make a profit (BATFE requirement) then you will have customers coming to your place of business (i.e. Home) whom you do not know in order to purchase firearms/accessories who could potentially be denied/declined by the FBI background check and become disgruntled.
If you advertise your business at all, there is now a general awareness that new, unused firearms exist within your place of business (i.e home) and there may be a greater risk of theft and home invasion (especially when you’re not there – on vacation etc)
Although not required by the BATFE, the installation of both a video surveillance system and additional firearms safes should be taken into consideration and added to your start-up budget
Running of a Business
Many folks are not used to or are unprepared to actually run a legal business and as such should remember the following points which are needed to do so successfully.
Accounting – as with any business your accounting will be crucial in order to be successful. Accounting will be vital in order to successfully complete your business income taxes and file/pay your yearly sales tax with the state.
Paperwork – probably more important than with most business is the fact that paperwork relating to firearms sales/transfers are vitally important and the lack of paperwork or the incorrect filling out of this paperwork can get your business shut down and put lives in danger.
All 4473 documents must be retained for the life of your business and must be filled out correctly each and every time. If a customer doesn’t fill out a question (that they needed to) and you complete the sale and later find out that this person committed a crime with it, it can and would come back to you as the dealer who sold it to them with improper paperwork
Advertising – To be successful, you’re going to need to advertise and honestly that can get quite expensive. In addition what you’ll find is that many folks already have their “favorite” gun shop so you need to find out what you’re going to do that is “better” for the customer than what their shop already does. This is not easy on a part-time basis…
Application Process:
After you’ve looked into the Why and have addressed all of the items (there are probably more that Ihave missed but it’s a good starting point) and have decided to still move forward with the process, the next step will be to begin the application process. This too has a multitude of steps:
Download the FFL Application: http://atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5310-12.pdf
Download the Certification of Compliance: http://atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5330-20.pdf
Download the Finger Print Card instructions and example: http://atf.gov/forms/download/fd-258-sample.pdf
Order official Fingerprint cards: Distribution Center Order Form (bottom right hand corner 3rd from the bottom)
Fill out and complete the FFL application (if you’ve completed other government forms before – income taxes etc – this will be easy just be sure to read it carefully)
Fill out and complete the Certification of Compliance
Go to your local Sheriff’s office or Police Department and attain finger prints after your finger print cards arrive.
Get a Certified check for $300.00 to send in as the application/license fee
Mail all of the necessary items to the BATFE (according to the information on the application)
While waiting to hear from the ATF, you’ll need to do the following: (most of which have some kind of financial fees associated with them)
Register and attain a federal business Tax ID
Register your business with the state (Sales Tax) as a registered retail merchant
Go to your local Sheriff’s department and apply for your license to sell handguns
Go to your local zoning board to gain approval of your business from a zoning perspective
BATFE Interview:

If all is going well with your application, the BATFE will schedule an interview with you at the desired place of business (i.e. your home) this interview consists of the following:
Oversight of the actual facility
Questions pertaining to business practices (firearm storage, surveillance, etc)
Training on the needed paperwork and the plethora of legal ramifications if it’s not done appropriately
Overview of your application
The Waiting Game and Financial Impact:

A waiting game now begins for your license to be approved and arrive.
The average time that this entire application process takes (from beginning to end) is approximately 4-6 months and your initial financial out-of-pocket expenses (before ever purchasing a firearm) will run between $400 and $4,000+ (depending on the size of safe, type of surveillance equipment, license fees, LLC Fees, etc)

03-30-2011 #15 (permalink)
spasmo
President of Cool





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[RelicHound]

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Welcome to INGunOwners.com (“Site”), owned and operated by INGO, LLC. The Site is provided to you for your personal entertainment, information, education and communication through our featured content and interactive forums. Please read these Terms and Conditions (“Terms”) carefully. The following Terms include our policy for acceptable use of the Site and content posted on the Site, your rights, obligations and restrictions regarding your use of the Site and the Site's Privacy Policy found here.

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Infringement Policy

Pursuant to 17 U.S.C. Section 512 as amended by Title II of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (the "Act"), we reserve the right, but not the obligation, to terminate your license to use the Site if we determine in its sole and absolute discretion that you are involved in infringing activity, including alleged acts of first-time or repeat infringement, regardless of whether the material or activity is ultimately determined to be infringing. We accommodate and do not interfere with standard technical measures used by copyright owners to protect their materials. In addition, pursuant to 17 U.S.C. Section 512 (c), we have implemented procedures for receiving written notification of claimed infringements and for processing such claims in accordance with the Act. All claims of infringement must be submitted in a written complaint that complies with the requirements below and delivered to our designated agent to receive notification of claimed infringement by mail:

INGO LLC
PO Box 853
Fishers, Indiana 46038
administrator@ingunowners.com

In addition, any written notice regarding any defamatory or infringing activity, whether of a copyright, patent, trademark or other proprietary right must include the following information: A. A physical or electronic signature of a person authorized to act on behalf of (1) the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed or (2) the person defamed. B. Identification of the copyrighted work claimed to have been infringed, or, if multiple copyrighted works at a single online site are covered by a single notification, a representative list of such works at that site. Similarly, for materials that are defamatory or infringe patent, trademark, or other proprietary rights of a third party, please submit a list of such materials. C. Identification of the material that is claimed to be infringing, to be the subject of infringing activity, or that is claimed to be defamatory and that is to be removed or access to which is to be disabled, and information reasonably sufficient to permit us to locate the material. D. Information reasonably sufficient to permit us to contact you, such as your address, telephone number, and/ or e-mail address. E. A statement that you have a good faith belief that use of the material, in the manner complained, of is not authorized by the copyright or other proprietary right owner, its agent, or the law. F. A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that you are authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed or on behalf of the person defamed.

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You agree to indemnify and hold INGO, LLC, and its subsidiaries, affiliates, directors, officers, agents, vendors or other partners and employees harmless from any claim or demand, including attorneys' fees, made by any third party due to or arising out of any material or information posted, provided, transmitted or otherwise made available by you on the Site or through the Site's services, or by your violation of these Terms, or by your violation of the rights of another.

Disclaimers and Limitation of Liability

You understand and agree that the Site is provided "As-Is" and that INGO, LLC assumes no responsibility for your ability to (or any costs or fees associated with your ability to) obtain access to the Site. Nor does INGO LLC assume any liability for the failure to store or maintain any user communications or personal settings.

NO ADVICE OR INFORMATION, WHETHER ORAL OR WRITTEN, OBTAINED BY YOU FROM THE SITE OR THROUGH OR FROM ITS SERVICES SHALL CREATE ANY WARRANTY NOT EXPRESSLY STATED IN THESE TERMS. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE SITE OR ITS OWNER BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, EXEMPLARY, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, INCLUDING LOST PROFIT DAMAGES ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE SITE OR ITS SERVICES EVEN IF WE HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. Some jurisdictions do not allow the disclaimer, exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the foregoing disclaimer, exclusion and limitation may not apply to you, and you may have other legal rights that vary according to jurisdiction. In no event will damages provided by law (if any) apply unless they are required to apply by statute, notwithstanding their exclusion by contract. If there is any dispute about or involving the Site or its Services, you agree that the dispute shall be governed by the laws of the State of Indiana, USA, without regard to conflict of law provisions and you agree to exclusive personal jurisdiction and venue in the state and federal courts of the United States located in the State of Indiana, City of Indianapolis. You also agree and hereby submit to the exclusive personal jurisdiction and venue of the federal district and state courts of Indiana with respect to such matters. We make no representation that materials on the Site are appropriate or available for use in other locations, and accessing them from territories where their content is illegal is prohibited. Those who choose to use or access the Site from other locations do so on their own initiative and are responsible for compliance with local laws. The section titles and other headings in these Terms are for convenience only and have no legal or contractual effect. Our failure to exercise or enforce any right or provision of these Terms shall not operate as a waiver of such right or provision. If any provision of these Terms is unlawful, void or unenforceable, that provision is deemed severable and does not affect the validity and enforceability of any remaining provisions.

INGO LLC / INGunOwners.com March 2011

 

[Suprtek]

I'm not going to quote any of that but I have a question....WTH???

 

[RelicHound]

I'm not going to quote any of that but I have a question....WTH???

how dare you question me!

 

[Suprtek]

read it or die!!!!!

You can't make me.

And again I ask....WTH???

 

[Suprtek]

Even with Relic clogging up the page, I still got pownage!

 

[RelicHound]

You can't make me.

And again I ask....WTH???

why are you questioning anything I do? seriously..have I ever posted anything that made sense?

 

[Suprtek]

why are you questioning anything I do? seriously..have I ever posted anything that made sense?

Well there was that one time when you said.....no that wasn't it. Maybe it was the day you were talking about....no, no, that wasn't it either.

Nope.

 

[OneBadV8]

To start things off, I got half an hour away from home and ran out of gas like an idiot. So I got to sit and wait for my daughter to bring the gas can so I was much later than I planned. Then later in the day a very large bolt that holds this

to the frame decided to come loose. I still don't know how I didn't lose the bolt because it was just barely sitting in the hole. I won't go into the details of what it is but I think most people can tell its a pretty important part! I had some help from some great friends to get it back together and all is well. In between all that, there was some good food, good shooting, and just general fun times.

I need a shower.

Glad you were able to get it fixed and get home

 

[Cru]

I did some chopping with my brand new Junglass yesterday. Man that felt good!

I did some chopping with my sweet new blade too! Kimmi thought the “art” I brought home for her was hilarious! Thanks for that!

where's cru with the sweet photos?

I was REALLY tired last night, and I came home from church and took a nap. I’ll get some put up now that I’m awake!

 

[Cru]

I won't go into the details of what it is but I think most people can tell its a pretty important part!

I felt like an idiot having to ask, but I don’t know much about a lot of mechanical things and I like learning. Sorry I wasn’t much help.

 

[Suprtek]

It's amazing what you can learn in a few minutes on YouTube.

 

[Cru]

It's amazing what you can learn in a few minutes on YouTube.

You make that lanyard yourself?

 

[Suprtek]

You make that lanyard yourself?

Just finished it. Took me about 45 minutes because I've never done it before.