The Official Hot Rod Thread - Part 4: Burnouts for Distance

[thunderchicken]

Looked into it a little and the 351c honestly sounds like a major PITA. There is a water jacket that has to be bored into the head (which you mentioned), plus a special intake that has to be used. Supposedly the 351c heads are the same or worse than GT40p heads in flow comparison.
Question - the bolt holes have to be drilled out to fit the larger 351w head bolts. Think I could do that by hand, or is a machine shop going to be my answer here? And any thoughts on what it would cost to have it done?

There used to be a few manufacturers that made intakes for putting the 351c heads on the 351w that weren't very expensive. I know about the water jacket work but have never heard of having to machine the bolt holes.
As for cost, unfortunately I have no idea what it might cost these days. Way back in the early 90s, I knew a couple people who went this route but have no idea what the cost was.

As far as comparing them to the gt40 heads, I'm not too familiar with them. But if they flow anywhere near a 351c head it would have to be the 351c 2v head and the ports must be bigger than a standard 351w head. The 351c also had 4v heads that were absolute beasts
Could ultimately be a budget killer these days

 

[jeffsqartan]

There used to be a few manufacturers that made intakes for putting the 351c heads on the 351w that weren't very expensive. I know about the water jacket work but have never heard of having to machine the bolt holes.
As for cost, unfortunately I have no idea what it might cost these days. Way back in the early 90s, I knew a couple people who went this route but have no idea what the cost was.

As far as comparing them to the gt40 heads, I'm not too familiar with them. But if they flow anywhere near a 351c head it would have to be the 351c 2v head and the ports must be bigger than a standard 351w head. The 351c also had 4v heads that were absolute beasts
Could ultimately be a budget killer these days

The holes that need to be drilled for larger head bolts are for the GT40 heads, not the 351c heads.
I'm curious if I can do the work myself. If not, they may just go on the 302 in the convertible for added power there.

I already have an aftermarket intake for the 351, so I don't think I'll worry too much about the 351c heads, even though it would be a fun project.

 

[thunderchicken]

The holes that need to be drilled for larger head bolts are for the GT40 heads, not the 351c heads.
I'm curious if I can do the work myself. If not, they may just go on the 302 in the convertible for added power there.

I already have an aftermarket intake for the 351, so I don't think I'll worry too much about the 351c heads, even though it would be a fun project.

Gotcha
I don't think it would be too difficult to open up the bolt holes. Obviously you'd just need to make sure you keep the bit(s) straight. But if it were me, I would see what the machine shop would charge because I would have the heads milled anyway before bolting them on. Just as an ounce of prevention

 

[femurphy77]

Looked into it a little and the 351c honestly sounds like a major PITA. There is a water jacket that has to be bored into the head (which you mentioned), plus a special intake that has to be used. Supposedly the 351c heads are the same or worse than GT40p heads in flow comparison.
Question - the bolt holes have to be drilled out to fit the larger 351w head bolts. Think I could do that by hand, or is a machine shop going to be my answer here? And any thoughts on what it would cost to have it done?

Cleveland heads on a windsor were actually the hot ticket for a long time. With the dearth of good sbf heads there was a wide array of choices utilizing cleveland heads because so many stock and superstock drivers had really developed them. A Boss 302 is essentially based on a windsor 302 block with cleveland style heads. Of course it's not THAT simple but it's definitely doable. I'm not familiar with anyone building one based on a 351W although as long as an intake is available that'd be the biggest limiting factor. Back in the day they called them Clevor engines.

 

[churchmouse]

The holes that need to be drilled for larger head bolts are for the GT40 heads, not the 351c heads.
I'm curious if I can do the work myself. If not, they may just go on the 302 in the convertible for added power there.

I already have an aftermarket intake for the 351, so I don't think I'll worry too much about the 351c heads, even though it would be a fun project.

Do you own. Decent drill press

 

[jeffsqartan]

Do you own. Decent drill press

I'm gonna need your definition of "decent" lol
Not sure if I could get a set of heads on it or not.

 

[churchmouse]

I'm gonna need your definition of "decent" lol
Not sure if I could get a set of heads on it or not.

Move the table and use cribbing to set the head under the bit. A drill will follow a drilled hole. Just have to be square under the drill chuck. Regardless you will need to debure/chamfer the holes top and bottom after drilling.

 

[thunderchicken]

Cleveland heads on a windsor were actually the hot ticket for a long time. With the dearth of good sbf heads there was a wide array of choices utilizing cleveland heads because so many stock and superstock drivers had really developed them. A Boss 302 is essentially based on a windsor 302 block with cleveland style heads. Of course it's not THAT simple but it's definitely doable. I'm not familiar with anyone building one based on a 351W although as long as an intake is available that'd be the biggest limiting factor. Back in the day they called them Clevor engines.

Cleveland heads on a windsor were actually the hot ticket for a long time. With the dearth of good sbf heads there was a wide array of choices utilizing cleveland heads because so many stock and superstock drivers had really developed them. A Boss 302 is essentially based on a windsor 302 block with cleveland style heads. Of course it's not THAT simple but it's definitely doable. I'm not familiar with anyone building one based on a 351W although as long as an intake is available that'd be the biggest limiting factor. Back in the day they called them Clevor engines.

The real hot Cleveland head set up back in the day before aluminum heads were available was what the pro stock guys like Glidden, Dyno Don, Gap & Roush did to the exhaust ports. Now you have to remember there were 2v heads which had better street manners and good low end torque from increased velocity. But the race versions were the 4v heads. They would cut the exhaust ports off and add plates to raise the exhaust ports. They would also use furnaces to heat the head to @700* and then welded the combustion chambers to be much like a modern wedge head design. I would almost bet that's how the A3 heads came about by copying what the pro stock guys were doing.
Back in the late 80s, dad ran a set of A3 heads he got from Bill Elliott that he had run at Martinsville. He always said those heads made killer power but had to really rev it hard all the time.
The Aussie's were lucky enough to have the Cleveland stuff in production until the late 80s. They developed closed chamber 2v heads that had street manners but also worked well for short track racing. They made throat inserts for the 4v heads to tame them down for better throttle response and so they could make more consistent power without screaming to 8k+ RPM.

 

[thunderchicken]

Not sure hiw I quoted femurphy twice there.

There was a time, I was going to throw together a Cleveland and drop it into my Foxbody Mustang to go play on the street. That plan was to use a billet crank dad has sitting in the box with a 4 bolt block stuffed with 12:1 pistons on 6" GM journal rods and slap on the open chamber 2v heads that would drop compression down to about 10.5:1 and go see what kind of trouble I could kick up.
But we all know how easy it is to let a project spiral almost out of control. One thing lead to another....

 

[churchmouse]

Not sure hiw I quoted femurphy twice there.

There was a time, I was going to throw together a Cleveland and drop it into my Foxbody Mustang to go play on the street. That plan was to use a billet crank dad has sitting in the box with a 4 bolt block stuffed with 12:1 pistons on 6" GM journal rods and slap on the open chamber 2v heads that would drop compression down to about 10.5:1 and go see what kind of trouble I could kick up.
But we all know how easy it is to let a project spiral almost out of control. One thing lead to another....

Man oh man do I ever know.

 

[thunderchicken]

Man oh man do I ever know.

I still have the car.. unfinished. Started out yo be a mild street car build with a simple roll bar, a bunch of suspension tricks I learned from when working at KB. Was even going to keep full interior. Oh, and it was going to be backed with a 4spd too.
But, I was influenced by the question of.. why spend all that money to build a small block when you have a perfectly good big block just sitting there in the corner. Then things went off the rails. Mini tubs, narrowed rear, coil overs, 12pt cage, stripped interior and replaced with aluminum panels you know another full on race car. I have the same problem as my dad... losing perspective & always getting further in and not knowing when to stop

 

[femurphy77]

I still have the car.. unfinished. Started out yo be a mild street car build with a simple roll bar, a bunch of suspension tricks I learned from when working at KB. Was even going to keep full interior. Oh, and it was going to be backed with a 4spd too.
But, I was influenced by the question of.. why spend all that money to build a small block when you have a perfectly good big block just sitting there in the corner. Then things went off the rails. Mini tubs, narrowed rear, coil overs, 12pt cage, stripped interior and replaced with aluminum panels you know another full on race car. I have the same problem as my dad... losing perspective & always getting further in and not knowing when to stop

Here I am looking for a place to drop that 393 stroker I bought a couple of years ago and you're talking about a (possibly) forlorned project.


Hmmmmm . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[thunderchicken]

Here I am looking for a place to drop that 393 stroker I bought a couple of years ago and you're talking about a (possibly) forlorned project.


Hmmmmm . . . . . . . . . . . .

LMAO
Well I won't lie. Knowing everything I have for it, I wouldn't let it go too cheap.
Aerospace brakes front/rear, 9" housing with 35 spline axles, glass dash, hood, deck lid, 10" front air dam, 14" wing, Scott Rod door panels, cowl panel, trunk trim panels and much much more. The worst part is I could probably finish putting it together minus paint for 4k or less. I call it a race car in boxes right now
Part of me wants to finish it. But I also hem haw about why finish a car that would certify to run 8.50 by NHRA when I already race a car that certifies to 7.50 and can run 7.0s.
Yeah I could still do the 351c deal (got blocks, crank, cam options, intake, heads, pan, headers etc) but like I said, I also have a 588 and a glide sitting in the corner and everything to drop it in with motor plates. Too many options and not enough cash to go around

 

[Jaybird1980]

Here I am looking for a place to drop that 393 stroker I bought a couple of years ago and you're talking about a (possibly) forlorned project.


Hmmmmm . . . . . . . . . . . .

LMAO
Well I won't lie. Knowing everything I have for it, I wouldn't let it go too cheap.
Aerospace brakes front/rear, 9" housing with 35 spline axles, glass dash, hood, deck lid, 10" front air dam, 14" wing, Scott Rod door panels, cowl panel, trunk trim panels and much much more. The worst part is I could probably finish putting it together minus paint for 4k or less. I call it a race car in boxes right now
Part of me wants to finish it. But I also hem haw about why finish a car that would certify to run 8.50 by NHRA when I already race a car that certifies to 7.50 and can run 7.0s.
Yeah I could still do the 351c deal (got blocks, crank, cam options, intake, heads, pan, headers etc) but like I said, I also have a 588 and a glide sitting in the corner and everything to drop it in with motor plates. Too many options and not enough cash to go around

 

[femurphy77]

LMAO
Well I won't lie. Knowing everything I have for it, I wouldn't let it go too cheap.
Aerospace brakes front/rear, 9" housing with 35 spline axles, glass dash, hood, deck lid, 10" front air dam, 14" wing, Scott Rod door panels, cowl panel, trunk trim panels and much much more. The worst part is I could probably finish putting it together minus paint for 4k or less. I call it a race car in boxes right now
Part of me wants to finish it. But I also hem haw about why finish a car that would certify to run 8.50 by NHRA when I already race a car that certifies to 7.50 and can run 7.0s.
Yeah I could still do the 351c deal (got blocks, crank, cam options, intake, heads, pan, headers etc) but like I said, I also have a 588 and a glide sitting in the corner and everything to drop it in with motor plates. Too many options and not enough cash to go around

Ok you need to BACK THE ---- OFF!

 

[thunderchicken]

View attachment 161305

Ok now I gotta say it. About all I need parts wise is a complete 3rd member, fuel pump, ignition system, hoses & fittings and dzus fasteners for the hood & deck lid, battery & not much more. How sad is it to be so close yet so far from having a running & driving car?
Maybe I need an intervention lol. Or maybe I just need to carve out time to get the darn thing put together Idk

 

[femurphy77]

Ok now I gotta say it. About all I need parts wise is a complete 3rd member, fuel pump, ignition system, hoses & fittings and dzus fasteners for the hood & deck lid, battery & not much more. How sad is it to be so close yet so far from having a running & driving car?
Maybe I need an intervention lol. Or maybe I just need to carve out time to get the darn thing put together Idk

Hey I've had one in that condition for 20 years, that's not sad, that's thoroughly thinking it thru!

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Decided to splurge on vacation and get the big kit for me and my boy. Gotta hand it to Lego, it is a very detailed kit. Double control arm, coilover suspension with full IRS. Working steering. Actual ring and pinion rearend (open diff) that is connected to a flat-six that correctly rotates when the rear tires move. Pretty impressive.

 

[churchmouse]

Well I believe I have worked out where the 64 is going so it can be finished. I have a long time friend that retired from the trades with me and his son started. Shop so Jeff went with him. They were always pressed for room so I never asked he take this on.
they have found a new place with 5 times the room. So we are arranging moving the frame and all up to his place Nd he will finish it. I am just not capable of doing it. Nor do I see it in the future.
it breaks my heart not to finish this one.

 

[Bigtanker]

Ok. This is cool as heck. I'm not sure how it will work on the forum but get on a phone/tablet and go to "Teeth and Turbos" YouTube channel. (It Parker, Cleetus's brother). He has a 360° camera on the roof of his burnout car. You can move it around by tilting your device.