The NRA True & False Thread

[Tamara]

The NRA hardly lifted a finger to fight Clinton's AWB back then...

Really? Because in the universe in which I live, they spent nearly all the political capital they had trying to get a 10-yr sunset on what looked to be a slam-dunk permanent ban.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

The NRA hardly lifted a finger to fight Clinton's AWB back then, and I've not seen much to make me think they've changed their stance. I give my money to groups like GOA and JPFO, sure they're smaller, but at least I know they're fighting for the ENTIRE 2nd!

Look, I'm NOT trashing the NRA, I just feel that my money is better spent with other organizations. That's my choice, just as is your choice to feel differently.

Pard, your money is yours to spend where you like, but to say that the NRA hardly lifted a finger to fight Clinton demonstrates a woeful lack of understanding on your part of what went on back then...I was there.

 

[DadOfFour]

NRA fought against a law that would have prevented gun store records from being searched under the Patriot Act.

NRA fought to prevent Holder from making it to SCOTUS

Charlton Heston (The NRA's God) SUPPORTED the GCA of 1968

In their entire history the NRA has only gotten TWO anti-gun laws reversed

The NRA supported NICS

The NRA supported NFA 1934

The NRA not only supported GCA of 1968, but pushed the government for waiting periods, registrations, notification of police of potential sales

NRA Director Senator Craig introduced legislation to ban certain types of ammo.


"We think it's reasonable to support the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act. ... We think it's reasonable to expect full enforcement of federal firearms laws by the federal government. ... That's why we support Project Exile -- the fierce prosecution of federal gun laws...we think it's reasonable because it works. ... We only support what works and our list is proud."

—NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre



​

 

[Tamara]

NRA fought to prevent Holder from making it to SCOTUS

Fought to prevent who from making it to where? I don't think we'll need to worry about that appointment until Obama's second term.

In most every other case you state, the NRA backed the bill that became law because the bill that was GOING to become law was even worse.

You did know that the original version of NFA '34 included all handguns, right? That's right: A tax stamp and a Form 4 for every pistol and revolver you own.

(Further, in the NFA and GCA cases, the NRA then was hardly the NRA now, which is sometimes characterized as an organization that would "rather fight than win.")

 

[Liberty Sanders]

So what?

The NRA that existed prior to the Cincinnati Revolt no longer exists. They wanted to abandon the fight against gun control, abandon NRA HQ in DC and move it to the Whittington Center in New Mexico. The members wanted an NRA that would fight for their rights, so they staged a coup.

You want to live in the past? Knock yourself out. But if you want to save your gun rights you damned well better start looking to the future.

GOA & JPFO are fine organizations who will put every dollar that you send them to good use. But don't fool yourself. Congress isn't afraid of them, they're afraid of the NRA.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

They wanted to abandon the fight against gun control, abandon NRA HQ in DC and move it to the Whittington Center in New Mexico.

With respect, no, Colorado Springs.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

What about the support GOA gives to gun control? Or, SAF's fight against gun rights in court, even against INGO members?

Does Larry Pratt's position on denying arms to immigrants or SAF's attempt to intrevene in right to carry cases give you no pause or concern?

 

[Jerry C]

So what?

The NRA that existed prior to the Cincinnati Revolt no longer exists. They wanted to abandon the fight against gun control, abandon NRA HQ in DC and move it to the Whittington Center in New Mexico. The members wanted an NRA that would fight for their rights, so they staged a coup.

You want to live in the past? Knock yourself out. But if you want to save your gun rights you damned well better start looking to the future.

GOA & JPFO are fine organizations who will put every dollar that you send them to good use. But don't fool yourself. Congress isn't afraid of them, they're afraid of the NRA.

I,m curious, if Congress is so afraid of the NRA, how did Kagan and Sotomayer make it to SCOTUS?

 

[Tamara]

I,m curious, if Congress is so afraid of the NRA, how did Kagan and Sotomayer make it to SCOTUS?

Because politics is like a poker game. You only have so many chips at any one time, and if you go all in on every hand, no matter what cards you're holding or your likelihood of winning, then you're not going to be in the game long.

I want my money spent on as few glorious defeats as possible. Maybe we could find some really smart people and pay them what it takes to determine which hands we should bluff on and where we should fold so that we can still afford to ante up for the next deal.

Naaah, that's crazy talk...

I swear, if gun owners were football coaches, every single play would be a "Hail Mary".

 

[DadOfFour]

Fought to prevent who from making it to where? I don't think we'll need to worry about that appointment until Obama's second term.

Sorry, typing to fast, meant Heller. The NRA fought to keep that case from reaching SCOTUS

In most every other case you state, the NRA backed the bill that became law because the bill that was GOING to become law was even worse.

You did know that the original version of NFA '34 included all handguns, right? That's right: A tax stamp and a Form 4 for every pistol and revolver you own.

Shall not be infringed must confuse you almost as much as it confuses the NRA and the govt

(Further, in the NFA and GCA cases, the NRA then was hardly the NRA now, which is sometimes characterized as an organization that would "rather fight than win.")

Really? Heston ran the NRA until when exactly?

So what?

The NRA that existed prior to the Cincinnati Revolt no longer exists. They wanted to abandon the fight against gun control, abandon NRA HQ in DC and move it to the Whittington Center in New Mexico. The members wanted an NRA that would fight for their rights, so they staged a coup.

You want to live in the past? Knock yourself out. But if you want to save your gun rights you damned well better start looking to the future.

GOA & JPFO are fine organizations who will put every dollar that you send them to good use. But don't fool yourself. Congress isn't afraid of them, they're afraid of the NRA.

And Wayne LaPierre's comments.....he's got nothing to do with the NRA's policy right?

Sorry but the NRA has a LONG history of selling gun owners down the river! You may not like it, but that's their track record, and I judge people by their previous actions. If the NRA starts showing me they're no compromise then I'll start supporting them, until then I feel my money is better spent elsewhere.

 

[DadOfFour]

Because politics is like a poker game. You only have so many chips at any one time, and if you go all in on every hand, no matter what cards you're holding or your likelihood of winning, then you're not going to be in the game long.

I want my money spent on as few glorious defeats as possible. Maybe we could find some really smart people and pay them what it takes to determine which hands we should bluff on and where we should fold so that we can still afford to ante up for the next deal.

Naaah, that's crazy talk...

I swear, if gun owners were football coaches, every single play would be a "Hail Mary".

Yeah, why bother fighting to stop the appointment of people who could very realistically rule against your interests for the next 30-40 years? Those 2 ying yangs are on the court FOREVER (well, till they die or quit) they can do ALLOT of damage in that time! But you're right, that's not an important fight at all...

 

[Beowulf]

Yeah, why bother fighting to stop the appointment of people who could very realistically rule against your interests for the next 30-40 years? Those 2 ying yangs are on the court FOREVER (well, till they die or quit) they can do ALLOT of damage in that time! But you're right, that's not an important fight at all...

Agreed. The Supreme court is one of the most important forces in terms of gun rights. While congresses come and go, the Supreme Court tends to stay relatively static for long periods of time. Given how narrowly the decisions went in Heller and McDonald, the idea of Obama getting a few more people on the SC is pretty darn disturbing. Not that the Republican appointees have been any great thing either in terms of civil rights (check out Gonzales v. Raich and Morse v. Frederick).

 

[Tamara]

Shall not be infringed must confuse you almost as much as it confuses the NRA and the govt

It doesn't confuse me at all. I want to see Kel-Tec P3AT's sold in blister packs at Walgreen's. I also want a pony. I might get the pony.

Really? Heston ran the NRA until when exactly?

Uh, Heston ran the NRA never. He was a good frontman, though. He certainly did not run it in '68, which you seem to be implying.

You may not like it, but that's their track record, and I judge people by their previous actions. If the NRA starts showing me they're no compromise then I'll start supporting them, until then I feel my money is better spent elsewhere.

You don't want "no compromise", you want "no win".

I'm not into dying gloriously. Fifteen years ago gun rights were in the toilet and we were on the retreat everywhere. Now the anti-gun forces could hold their yearly rallies in a phone booth and they haven't passed a serious gun control law since Justin Bieber was a zygote, and to pretend that the NRA was not the major lobbying force behind that is the equivalent of

 

[Tamara]

Yeah, why bother fighting to stop the appointment of people who could very realistically rule against your interests for the next 30-40 years?

Because you don't bet capital on fights you can't win?

Look, first, it's not a zero-sum game. Nobody's saying that you can't give money to NRA and GOA and SAF and JPFO. Lord knows I do.

But if you want to take the money that you'd give to the NRA and give it to GOA instead, think hard first. The NRA may pay Wayne LaPierre a buttload of cash, but at least they've gotten you something, even if it wasn't your entire Christmas list. Name one thing that the money GOA puts into executive compensation has gotten you.

I'd rather give money to the charity that spends a million dollars to feed a single hungry kid than to the one who can't even get the spoon near his mouth but still talks a good game.

 

[rugertoter]

I'm a long time NRA member, although not a life member, and ole' Wayne has been raising my eyebrows for some time now. I know one thing for certain: they could save themselves a ton of OUR money if we didn't receive 2-3 mailers from them each and every week. Talk about wastefull....hell, that's shamefull.

I heard that. I'm an NRA member, but do get tired of all the junk mail.

 

[DadOfFour]

It doesn't confuse me at all. I want to see Kel-Tec P3AT's sold in blister packs at Walgreen's. I also want a pony. I might get the pony.


Uh, Heston ran the NRA never. He was a good frontman, though. He certainly did not run it in '68, which you seem to be implying.

Actually Heston was the President of the NRA for many years. How can somebody who supported GCA 68 claim to be a staunch supporter of 2nd Amendment Rights?

You don't want "no compromise", you want "no win".

I'm not into dying gloriously. Fifteen years ago gun rights were in the toilet and we were on the retreat everywhere. Now the anti-gun forces could hold their yearly rallies in a phone booth and they haven't passed a serious gun control law since Justin Bieber was a zygote, and to pretend that the NRA was not the major lobbying force behind that is the equivalent of

I don't want "no win" I want an organization that stands up and says "HELL NO" when the dipsh*ts in DC try to cram something down our throats. I want an organization that stands up and fights to get Unconstitutional laws overturned/repealed, not sits back and says "Enforce existing law" and "It could have been worse!" Those are WEAK arguments.

I'm not saying the NRA hasn't done anything worthwhile, I'm saying that the NRA has a history of compromise and backing down from a fight.

Guess what, you loose 100% of the fights that you don't even show up for, and that's what the NRA does, it doesn't even show up for the fight. Sure, you might loose if you show up, but at least you showed up and fought.

 

[Tamara]

Actually Heston was the President of the NRA for many years. How can somebody who supported GCA 68 claim to be a staunch supporter of 2nd Amendment Rights?

Heston became the president of the NRA in 1998. Further, the position was largely that of a figurehead.

I know that my views have changed over the last thirty years. Thirty years ago I thought "Eye Of The Tiger" was the coolest song ever recorded...

I don't want "no win" I want an organization that stands up and says "HELL NO" when the dipsh*ts in DC try to cram something down our throats.

I don't need an organization to do that, I can yell "HELL NO" all by myself. I need an organization that can actually exert political leverage and play a deep game to blunt and reverse that stuff and then get all aikido and go on the attack. I guess you'd rather have to do the whole fingerprints and $200 tax stamp to buy a Kel-Tec.

 

[fastwally]

I'm not saying the NRA hasn't done anything worthwhile, I'm saying that the NRA has a history of compromise and backing down from a fight.

If the NRA wasn't there, where would your gun rights be today. What other organization at the time could even have forced a compromise so things could be changed down the road?

 

[fastwally]

This is not a NRA Hate thread

I think it was a TROLL thread!

 

[DadOfFour]

Heston became the president of the NRA in 1998. Further, the position was largely that of a figurehead.

I know that my views have changed over the last thirty years. Thirty years ago I thought "Eye Of The Tiger" was the coolest song ever recorded...



I don't need an organization to do that, I can yell "HELL NO" all by myself. I need an organization that can actually exert political leverage and play a deep game to blunt and reverse that stuff and then get all aikido and go on the attack. I guess you'd rather have to do the whole fingerprints and $200 tax stamp to buy a Kel-Tec.

No actually, I'd like to be able to open the Sears Catalog and order a 22 rifle for my kid, or a 45 handgun for myself and have it show up in the mail a few days later, just like you used to be able to, and just like the Constitution says.

Again, you don't agree with me that's fine, send your money to whoever the hell you want, I'll spend mine where I think it's best. I'm sorry but the words SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED mean EXACTLY that to me, and I choose not to spend my money with people who don't agree with me.

Now, with that being said, I'm done in this thread before it degenerates any further than it already has.