The NRA True & False Thread

[NIFT]

The NRA is far from a perfect organization, but I challenge you to name one organization--any organization--that is anywhere in the vicinity of perfect.

Now, answer these three questions to yourself:

1. Where would we be if the NRA or a similar organization did not exist?
2. Where would we be if the NRA ceased to exist?
3. Where would we be if the NRA's inluence were substantively dimished, say, to the current level of Brady?

Seems some posters on this thread need some cheese for their whine.
We are all beneficiaries of the influence and actions of the NRA, whether or not we contribute financially.

 

[trailrider]

No one has ever been forced to join have they? I'm not a life member but I'll continue to send them $25. a year. The newsletters let me know which politicians support or oppose gun ownership.(although ingo does the same thing). I agree the constant mailings get old.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

The NRA has been something to avoid for a long time. It's become much too self-serving. The faster it goes away, the better for all gun owners. The NRA spends millions annually to kill other groups that form who truly do champion our gun rights. If the NRA disappeared tomorrow, these groups could thrive. Today's NRA is all about lining the pockets of its executive board.

I'll address this issue once again and then I'll have said my piece.

NRA has a compensation committee. Once a year it brings suggestions to the NRA Board as to compensation for the NRA officers.

I know to the dime what salaries were received by the Executive Vice President (LaPierre), the head of ILA, the head of General Operations, the Secretary, Treasurer, etc., and I voted to approve those salaries.

If any of the NRA honchos went to work in similar positions for any corporation they would receive salaries far in excess of what they receive from the NRA. They stay with NRA because, like us, they are devoted to the cause.

NO ONE at the NRA is "lining their pockets."

P.S. NRA Board members receive no compensation and serve on a volunteer basis. They do receive reimbursement for travel, lodging and meals when on NRA business.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

The NRA supported the Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid for re-election in 2010. Look what Reid has done to the country. How does one join the NRA if they support people like this?

Ok, I'll tackle this one too...

The head of ILA would address the board concerning their political endorsements, in executive session, behind closed doors.

Most of the time, their choices were no-brainers. Every once in awhile there would be howls of indignation (often with me among the howlers) and a heated discussion would follow.

WHAT??? WE'RE ENDORSING THAT PIECE OF %$#@??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????

The Head of ILA would then explain that the candidate was indeed a piece of %$#@, but that his opponent was a far BIGGER piece of %$#@, and that if we didn't endorse the first piece of %$#@, and as a consequence the BIG piece of %$#@ got elected instead, we would be up %$#@ creek.

So, with a groan, we'd hold our noses, sit down and shut up. It's all about results!!!

There were congressmen on the NRA Board. Frankly, most of them were sleazebags and I didn't like them. They just happened to be sleazebags that were on our side. They had power and a vote in Congress, which we needed.

Pards, politics is a dirty business, and if some of you guys could have been on that board and seen the behind-the-scenes stuff that goes on in Washington and the hoops that NRA has had to go through to protect you there would be less criticism here.

It's a lot like getting a root canal or a colonoscopy...you don't want to do it, you don't even want to think about it, but if you don't do it the payback down the road will be a real *****.

I can only hope that the fact that I was there and saw the sausage being made gives me some credibility. As Mark Twain once said, a man who has held a bull by the tail knows five or six things more than a man who hasn't.

 

[straid]

I can tell you there are times when the NRA acts in ways that may seem peculiar to the membership, but they do so for good reasons that they can't discuss publicly.

The best example I can think of to illustrate that is the HELLER case before the Supreme Court.

During all the years I was on the board and for years before, the NRA fought to PREVENT any 2nd Amendments cases from reaching the Supreme Court, and we did so for the best of reasons...WE WOULD HAVE LOST!!!

NRA was waiting for the composition of the court to be favorable to a good decision, because we were only going to get one shot, and whatever they decided we'd be stuck with forever.

Attorney Alan Gura, in a 2003 filing, used the term "sham litigation" to describe the NRA's attempts to have Parker (aka Heller) consolidated with its own case challenging the D.C. law. Gura also stated that "the NRA was adamant about not wanting the Supreme Court to hear the case".[51][52]Cato Institute senior fellow Robert Levy, co-counsel to the Parker plaintiffs, has stated that the Parker plaintiffs "faced repeated attempts by the NRA to derail the litigation."[53] He also stated that "The N.R.A.’s interference in this process set us back and almost killed the case. It was a very acrimonious relationship."[6] These concerns were based on NRA lawyers' assessment that the justices at the time the case was filed might reach an unfavorable decision.
Wayne LaPierre, the NRA's chief executive officer, confirmed the NRA's misgivings. "There was a real dispute on our side among the constitutional scholars about whether there was a majority of justices on the Supreme Court who would support the Constitution as written," Mr. LaPierre said. Both Levy and LaPierre said the NRA and Mr. Levy's team were now on good terms.[6]

There's another example of the NRA trying to torpedo the efforts of others. It looks from where I sit, that if the NRA cannot be the champion in a 2A related case, that they try to make sure no one else will be. It further looks that if someone other than them is making progress, they attach themselves to the case like a leech - even against the wishes of the lawyers who are making the progress. It happens on a state level and it happens on the national level.

When the Heller case arrived at the court I'm sure the NRA felt we were not ready, but they had a choice to either back the case or explain why they opposed it...they took a chance...a DANGEROUS chance... and decided to go for it.

That sounds all noble and stuff, but the way it played out suggest a different set of facts.

The NRA isn't perfect, but they're all we've got. Our default position should be to trust them.

This is a naive and dangerous position to hold. Trust has to be continuously earned, not blindly given. If trust is blindly given and that trust is misplaced, by the time one realizes it, it may be too late to reverse course.

There's no doubt the NRA has done some good things, but like any organization, corporation or government, once it reaches a certain size and power influence, it becomes less concerned with the original intent and strives toward a more self-sustaining purpose.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I'll address this issue once again and then I'll have said my piece.

NRA has a compensation committee. Once a year it brings suggestions to the NRA Board as to compensation for the NRA officers.

I know to the dime what salaries were received by the Executive Vice President (LaPierre), the head of ILA, the head of General Operations, the Secretary, Treasurer, etc., and I voted to approve those salaries.

If any of the NRA honchos went to work in similar positions for any corporation they would receive salaries far in excess of what they receive from the NRA. They stay with NRA because, like us, they are devoted to the cause.

NO ONE at the NRA is "lining their pockets."

P.S. NRA Board members receive no compensation and serve on a volunteer basis. They do receive reimbursement for travel, lodging and meals when on NRA business.

I was surprised at the salaries you quoted above. That's a lot if money to a person like me. But for executives of large organizations, they seemed quite low.

As far as the mailings go...what's the big deal? I don't even open them if they don't interest me. I go to the mailbox everyday anyway, so it's not like they're costing me money or much additional trouble. When I come in the house, I pass right by a garbage can where 99% of all my junk mail goes.

 

[NIFT]

​

There's another example of the NRA trying to torpedo the efforts of others. It looks from where I sit, that if the NRA cannot be the champion in a 2A related case, that they try to make sure no one else will be. It further looks that if someone other than them is making progress, they attach themselves to the case like a leech - even against the wishes of the lawyers who are making the progress. It happens on a state level and it happens on the national level.


That sounds all noble and stuff, but the way it played out suggest a different set of facts.


This is a naive and dangerous position to hold. Trust has to be continuously earned, not blindly given. If trust is blindly given and that trust is misplaced, by the time one realizes it, it may be too late to reverse course.

There's no doubt the NRA has done some good things, but like any organization, corporation or government, once it reaches a certain size and power influence, it becomes less concerned with the original intent and strives toward a more self-sustaining purpose.

Straid:
You have thrown a lot of stones at the NRA and, perhaps, some are deserving; however, your post has a complete absence of solutions--viable or otherwise.

So, what is/are your suggested solution(s) to advance the cause, given your position that the NRA is so bad? Should the NRA be eliminated? If so, what is your superior replacement, if any? If the NRA should not be eliminated, then what courses of action do you propose to fix it? What are you doing to accomplish your remedies, if anything?

 

[Mgderf]

One question in regards to the O.P.'s queery.

Where do you suppose your 2nd amendment rights be today, had the NRA not been there fighting in defense of said rights?

 

[dmax]

It's apparent by this thread that INGO members have more than a modicum of intelligence and common sense. The NRA is more than a political/legal machine. Let's not forget the monthly publications, the schools, training and other events sponsored by the NRA. The NRA may not be the only, or sometimes most popular, organization out there. But the NRA is definitely the biggest badass on the playground. And in this political climate, I sleep better knowing they have my back.

 

[straid]

Straid:
You have thrown a lot of stones at the NRA and, perhaps, some are deserving; however, your post has a complete absence of solutions--viable or otherwise.

So, what is/are your suggested solution(s) to advance the cause, given your position that the NRA is so bad? Should the NRA be eliminated? If so, what is your superior replacement, if any? If the NRA should not be eliminated, then what courses of action do you propose to fix it?

Let's get one thing straight. I'm not completely anti-NRA. I understand the serve a purpose. A necessary purpose. I was once a member. On the other hand, I'm not blindly loyal just because we share a common interest.

Should the NRA be eliminated? No. Of course not. On the other hand, I think they should, for the most part, get out of the way of other organizations that are doing similar work and racking up impressive success rates. Most of those organizations are state-based and don't have the national reach that the NRA has, but state laws are just as important as national ones. There is room in the arena for both and if state organizations are cranking it out, the NRA should not hinder those efforts in any way, whatsoever.

I'm not so much throwing stones as bringing to light some of the shenanigans that the NRA is engaged in. It's important that the public is aware of how their champions of the cause are conducting their business. How many times have we heard presidents speak of transparency, only to find out later the back-room deals and quid pro quo pacts? There's no easy answer on how to fix it and I won't even pretend to know all the inner workings. There's a lot of complexities to this issue and strong feelings on both sides of the aisle.

What are you doing to accomplish your remedies, if anything?

That's a fair question. I have worked with two separate grass roots organizations to promote state rights. Neither of those organizations send out mailers begging for money and none of the people on the board get paid. It's all strictly voluntary. With no money and power to be had, their one and only focus is on expanding gun rights in their state. They both have racked up impressive victories for 2A. In fact, it's when I saw how effective and less "scummy" these organizations operate that I dropped the NRA and focused on supporting state's rights. I've personally trained nearly 2 dozen friends and acquaintances and walked them through the process of getting their firearms licenses. Some of them have worked with their friends to get them their licenses. While that's not impressive on a national scale, it's not bad for my small sphere of influence.

 

[DadOfFour]

Here's my problem with the NRA, and it's a simple one. They support hunting rifles and shotguns, but don't seem to give a rat's ass about my black rifles. I feel as if the NRA picks and chooses which guns it wants to try to protect, either protect them all, or you don't get my money it's that simple.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

They support hunting rifles and shotguns, but don't seem to give a rat's ass about my black rifles.

What? Where would you get that idea?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Here's one I found after a cursory search. I'll touch base with some friends down there and see which others ones the NRA got involved with.

The NRA urged the signing of 308.

No, but I do question the manner in which they do it. I wish they'd just be honest and say, "Please donate money for the cause." I'd gladly contribute. That would be refreshing. Instead, they inundate us with scare tactics and bogus questionnaires that have absolutely no meaning. It's immature and makes me respect them a little bit less. I don't kowtow to cheap theatrics.

It is fund raising and if it did not work then the NRA would not do it.

You can throw the mailers out or call the NRA and tell them to stop.

 

[cavemike]

i am a member of the NRA. I am also a member of the SAF. Over the last several years I will send the NRA/ILA about $75.00 a year and the SAF around $150.00. This is over and above the annual dues. I think my donations to both organizations (whether tax deductible or not) is money well spent.

The NRA may be the 800lb silverback but the SAF and Alan Gura is the 600 lb next best thing.

 

[fastwally]

This is going nowhere, like discussing politics, no end. There are always going to be those who don't want to part with a few bucks and there need to justify it to everybody else. If it wasn't for the NRA the younger generation wouldn't have to worry about having a gun, it would be illegal.
Are they perfect, no. Are they the best we got, yes. Are the politicians afraid of them, yes.

 

[Tamara]

No, but I do question the manner in which they do it. I wish they'd just be honest and say, "Please donate money for the cause." I'd gladly contribute. That would be refreshing. Instead, they inundate us with scare tactics and bogus questionnaires that have absolutely no meaning. It's immature and makes me respect them a little bit less. I don't kowtow to cheap theatrics.

I find the NRA's barrage of direct-mail pleas to be annoying, too, but I realize that... well... to be blunt, I'm not their target market.

The people who are most likely to whip out the checkbook in response to a robosigned "personal plea" from Wayne in their mailbox are also the kind of people who respond to the same pitches from the AARP or those ghastly ads in with the grocery coupons for the little dolls dressed up as baby bikers, or prayer crosses with a genuine crystal that you can look through and read the Lord's Prayer.

Maybe when I get older and have more disposable income, I'll get the urge to respond to that kind of direct mail marketing, too, or maybe they'll come up with a whole new kind to appeal to my age cohort when we hit our check-writing years.

Whichever, be assured that the approach has been fine-tuned and focus-grouped to a T, and for every one of us who chucks the thing in the trash, there's another one that reacts with a donation. And that's what it's all about.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

Here's my problem with the NRA, and it's a simple one. They support hunting rifles and shotguns, but don't seem to give a rat's ass about my black rifles. I feel as if the NRA picks and chooses which guns it wants to try to protect, either protect them all, or you don't get my money it's that simple.

Don't give a rat's ass?

Who do you think is responsible for the fact that you're not in prison for owning those black rifles???

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The NRA may be the 800lb silverback but the SAF and Alan Gura is the 600 lb next best thing.

You do realize that SAF and Alan Gura have spoken out against gun rights and via litigation worked to limit gun rights to INGO members?

Using the INGO Rules of Evidence (Rule 7--if one has any reservation about any gun law not being unconstitutional then they are a sell out) how can you give money to SAF?

 

[1 old 0311]

Darn right! When I spend the VAST sum of $18 a year I expect a magazine every month, insurance coverage, legislative support, AND a free car wash.
Until then I will stand with all the closet Sara Brady supporters and PRETEND to be a shooter.

 

[DadOfFour]

Don't give a rat's ass?

Who do you think is responsible for the fact that you're not in prison for owning those black rifles???

The NRA hardly lifted a finger to fight Clinton's AWB back then, and I've not seen much to make me think they've changed their stance. I give my money to groups like GOA and JPFO, sure they're smaller, but at least I know they're fighting for the ENTIRE 2nd!

Look, I'm NOT trashing the NRA, I just feel that my money is better spent with other organizations. That's my choice, just as is your choice to feel differently.