The [Current Year] General Political/Salma Hayek discussion thread, part 4!!!

[DoggyDaddy]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1176559966024556544

Nice little dig he got in at the Dems too. "While I'm busy doing the business of the country, you clowns are still chasing your tails trying to pin something on ME."

 

[jamil]

I'm not even sure that's a scandal, in foreign policy terms.

Take the Biden name out of it. If there was credible suspicion of an American citizen being involved in foreign corruption (especially Russian), there's a bunch of laws about that. Asking an nominal ally for help investigating it certainly isn't a problem. Suggesting that, with greater law enforcement cooperation, the ties that bind our countries may be strengthened, and upon that base further deals can be struck - that's not really a problem either.

I think part of Trump's problem is that he's so used to dealing with seedy people in seedy situations, that he thinks ever situation is seedy. This could've been done completely above board. For all we know, it actually was! But Trump's way of describing it just makes it sound terrible.

The whole whistleblower angle to this is secondary (or tertiary). Gee, a government agency didn't conduct the process of inter-branch cooperation correctly. Literally, that happens every day. Good reasons, bad reasons, no reasons.

This is a political issue because it involves 2 of the MSM's (and Dem's) favorite targets: Trump and Biden.

Like I said, if Trump wanted Biden investigated, that's fine. Biden probably should be investigated. That whole deal sounded very shady. I'm not sure if it breaks any US laws, but if Trump used the power of the Presidency to bribe a foreign leader to investigate his political opponent, that's a scandal. I'd be awful ***damn pissed if Obama had done that to one of his opponents. Not sure it rises to the level of impeachment but it's a scandal.

I think the whistleblower angle is just a tool of narrative. The "#resistance" is fighting the evil orange man. None of it is first-hand. There just isn't a story yet. But whistleblower! Folks, we got us a whistleblower! IMPEACH!

Eh. Calm down. Let the story mature. I'll either turn into something or it'll fizzle like Rusian collusion.

 

[Alpo]

Trump doesn't listen, doesn't like to read and generally mistrusts the advice of others so it's a safe bet that he will be in violation of any number of statutes in the course of a day.

The other issue, to me, is: WTF is Biden's son doing in Ukraine? He has no special knowledge or experience in the field. To me it's an obvious case of influence purchasing. That seems to be par for both sides of the aisle and ought to be proscribed.

 

[KG1]

I hope Zelensky was ok with it.

Trump was probably right that conversations with world leaders should start with the presumption of some form of privilege/confidentiality.

Of course, Zelensky is a former comedian, so he may think it was some of his best work.

Well the attorney representing the DNI along with the President's administration lawyers are of the same mind that the President has the Constitutional right to withhold information on those grounds according to this article in the NYT. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/us/whistleblower-law-explained.html

What about executive privilege?

Mr. Klitenic also suggested that Trump administration lawyers think the Constitution gives the president a legal right to order Mr. Maguire to defy a congressional subpoena for the whistle-blower complaint. The complaint pertained to “confidential and potentially privileged matters relating to the interests of other stakeholders within the executive branch,” Mr. Klitenic wrote.

In support of that notion, Mr. Klitenic pointed to claims by two Democratic presidents, Barack Obama and Bill Clinton, when they signed the present system into law in 1998 and 2010. They asserted a constitutional right for presidents to control the disclosure of information to Congress related to their constitutional duties.

 

[jamil]

Which part?

I mean, as CINC/chief executive within the federal government, he can conduct foreign policy in whatever way he wants. Including awkward, hamfisted, novice efforts. The call with the Ukraine president seems extraordinarily unlikely to have broken any laws.

In terms of reporting the whistleblower complaint to congressional oversight people... well, that's the job of Trump's appointee. To the extent Trump personally slow-walked or ignored that process, there was probably a domestic law broken. That law is process-oriented and I'm not sure it can have any real teeth to it.

POTUS not reporting to Congress something that is supposed to be reported, while perhaps "unlawful" (as in, it breaks a law), is probably not a "high crime or misdemeanor." But, we won't know for sure until SCOTUS says so.

Depends how the conversation actually went.

"You know that $250M worth of military hardware we agreed on? Shame if you'd lose that just because you didn't investigate Biden." Or, "hey, you know, the US could probably help you out with "loan" you needed, but I'm gonna kinda need you to investigate one of my opponents. Joe Biden." That's kinda scandalous.

But. "Hey. I really think you should investigate Biden. That thing he had going with his son was corrupt to the core. He really shouldn't get away with that. I really think you should investigate. I mean, you know, really dig into it until you find something. Know what I mean?"

That's kinda ****ty. But there's no quid pro quo. It's just Trump being Trump. Trying to needle people to do stuff he wants done.

So if he tried to pay off a foreign leader to dig up stuff on Biden, I think that's pretty bad. If it's just asking him to investigate, meh.

 

[HoughMade]

Y'know, I've never been shy about saying how much I think Trump is crass and immoral....

...but I think Hunter Biden has him beat...and I'm not even really talking about the shady business dealings. Young Biden is just a world-class scumbag.

Anyhoo, if i were the dems, I would not be drawing a lot of focus to Joe and his ne'er do-well-son...which is being quite mild....unless that was the plan all along.

Oh, and Trump tweeted out that the transcript will be released tomorrow.

"I am currently at the United Nations representing our Country, but have authorized the release tomorrow of the complete, fully declassified and unredacted transcript of my phone conversation with President Zelensky of Ukraine...."

 

[nonobaddog]

Biden and son did a shady deal with china too.
The corruption strong in this one is.

 

[jamil]

Trump doesn't listen, doesn't like to read and generally mistrusts the advice of others so it's a safe bet that he will be in violation of any number of statutes in the course of a day.

The other issue, to me, is: WTF is Biden's son doing in Ukraine? He has no special knowledge or experience in the field. To me it's an obvious case of influence purchasing. That seems to be par for both sides of the aisle and ought to be proscribed.

The way this thing looks like it's going, I'm going to stick with that it could end up being worse for Biden than Trump. Poking around that pile of **** Biden's son made over there is bound to be something Biden doesn't want. I think the rest of the Democrats are quite happy with the story sticking around. It may damage both of them. I'm sure they'd like to get the frontrunner out of the race. Latest polls show Biden only has a 4 point lead on Warren.

 

[HoughMade]

The way this thing looks like it's going, I'm going to stick with that it could end up being worse for Biden than Trump. Poking around that pile of **** Biden's son made over there is bound to be something Biden doesn't want. I think the rest of the Democrats are quite happy with the story sticking around. It may damage both of them. I'm sure they'd like to get the frontrunner out of the race. Latest polls show Biden only has a 4 point lead on Warren.

The woke dems...and those left in Biden (the elder's) path are using this to take Biden down...and it's kinda brilliant.

 

[T.Lex]

Yeah, that's the way I see this: it is as much a way to take Biden (the Elder) out as much as hang more crap on Trump.

 

[KG1]

If Biden is so innocent as he and members of the msm claim then what is the difference from when he was VP and threatened on the record to withhold a billion in aid to Ukraine because they were concerned about corruption and Trump delaying military aid for the same reason as he claimed?

 

[T.Lex]

I think the point is - politically - to paint Biden and Trump with the same brush. Its a Dem strategy to take Biden out of the primaries.

 

[jamil]

The woke dems...and those left in Biden (the elder's) path are using this to take Biden down...and it's kinda brilliant.

This is kinda what I was thinking the other day, except I don't really give people that much credit for things working out. They try ****. It works. Or it blows up in their faces. Or something in between.

 

[BugI02]

Which part?

I mean, as CINC/chief executive within the federal government, he can conduct foreign policy in whatever way he wants. Including awkward, hamfisted, novice efforts. The call with the Ukraine president seems extraordinarily unlikely to have broken any laws.

In terms of reporting the whistleblower complaint to congressional oversight people... well, that's the job of Trump's appointee. To the extent Trump personally slow-walked or ignored that process, there was probably a domestic law broken. That law is process-oriented and I'm not sure it can have any real teeth to it.

POTUS not reporting to Congress something that is supposed to be reported, while perhaps "unlawful" (as in, it breaks a law), is probably not a "high crime or misdemeanor." But, we won't know for sure until SCOTUS says so.

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/2...ia-is-pure-projection-by-media-and-democrats/
Like Russian Collusion, Ukraine Hysteria Is Pure Projection By Media And Democrats

To hear the media tell it, Trump committed treason. The walls are closing in. The end is nigh. Why? Well, the details there are a little fuzzy, as they always seem to be. Somebody heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from another that Trump had threatened Ukraine that it must investigate Hunter Biden, the troubled son of Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden…or else.

The media initially hyped their latest faux scandal by claiming a deeply connected “whistleblower” listened to a phone call between Trump and the head of Ukraine’s government, in which Trump allegedly threatened to withhold money if the Eastern European nation failed to investigate allegations of corruption by Hunter Biden. Then it morphed into the source reading a transcript or readout of the phone call. And eventually it was buried in the 22nd paragraph of a breathless CNN story that the alleged “whistleblower” hadn’t in fact directly read or seen or heard anything he or she was allegedly blowing the whistle on:

The whistleblower didn’t have direct knowledge of the communications, an official briefed on the matter told CNN. Instead, the whistleblower’s concerns came in part from learning information that was not obtained during the course of their work, and those details have played a role in the administration’s determination that the complaint didn’t fit the reporting requirements under the intelligence whistleblower law, the official said

The Wall Street Journal later disclosed that there was no quid pro quo and no discussion of U.S. financial aid during the call the whistleblower *** axe-grinder never even heard.

 

[KG1]

Another thing of note is that Trump eventually authorized the aid to be released without any action from the Ukrainians to investigate Biden.

In Biden’s case the aid was released only after the Ukrainian prosecutor was fired who just so happened to be honing in on Biden’s son which Biden admitted that the firing was the objective of withholding the aid.

 

[bwframe]

Pelosi announcing impeachment in a half hour?

 

[jamil]

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/2...ia-is-pure-projection-by-media-and-democrats/
Like Russian Collusion, Ukraine Hysteria Is Pure Projection By Media And Democrats

This has been the troubling part of the whole story: "information that was not obtained during the course of their work".

Okay so here's an angle where it could be totally legit. Most people take a dump during the course of their workday and are still paid for the time it takes, including wiping, hand-washing, etcetera. So if they just ****, and pulled that information out of their ass, isn't that then during the course of their work? Shouldn't that bolster their whistleblower cred?

Totally legit. IMPEACH TRUMP!

 

[T.Lex]

I can't remember if I said this here or not, but if the Dems go for impeachment, it almost insures a Trump 2020 victory.

This whole thing will hit maximum suckage quickly.

 

[KG1]

I can't remember if I said this here or not, but if the Dems go for impeachment, it almost insures a Trump 2020 victory.

This whole thing will hit maximum suckage quickly.

I agree that it will be the galvanizing pinacle of divisiveness.

 

[T.Lex]

I agree that it will be the galvanizingpinnacle of divisiveness.

Alas, the House Subcommittee on Rep held a hearing and voted to impeach my ability to rep you for "galvanizing pinnacle of divisiveness."

Rest assured, multiple golf claps are directed to you from the Ukrainian president's office.