The [Current Year] General Political/Salma Hayek discussion thread, part 4!!!

[Kutnupe14]

Wait, so it's somehow fair that the Dems who only control 1/2 of Congress will not accept anything except 100% their way or the highway?

It takes all three, House, Senate and the President to resolve this... all have a say, and must get something they want from the deal.

Trump has moved from "just border wall funds" to what he is willing to give to get his priorities. Pelosi and Schumer's turn to move off the dime.

I'm completely ok with it being their way, or the "highway."

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I'm completely ok with it being their way, or the "highway."

I'm ok with it also, because it definitely makes the Dems the petulant children insisting on everything their way, and Trump the adult in the room.

Who knew it was possible! Lol! But that's where we are now.

 

[nonobaddog]

Pelosi thinks she is congress, one third of the balance of power. She likes to forget about the Senate and doesn't mention the Supreme Court. She says she is equal to the President, her term for it is "co-equal". She does have a lot of power because of all of her little democrat robot representatives. She tells them how to vote and they do it, no brain needed. She is only speaker for the lower house of congress so she can't actually do anything good for America by herself, not that she is inclined to anyhow, but she can obstruct the government from doing anything good for America, so that is her course of action.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Pelosi thinks she is congress, one third of the balance of power. She likes to forget about the Senate and doesn't mention the Supreme Court. She says she is equal to the President, her term for it is "co-equal". She does have a lot of power because of all of her little democrat robot representatives. She tells them how to vote and they do it, no brain needed. She is only speaker for the lower house of congress so she can't actually do anything good for America by herself, not that she is inclined to anyhow, but she can obstruct the government from doing anything good for America, so that is her course of action.

Opposing Trump isn't obstruction of government.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Opposing Trump isn't obstruction of government.

But opposing Trump, no matter what, is... and that's what's happening.

He's now the adult in the room. Who'd a thunk it possible?

 

[Kutnupe14]

But opposing Trump, no matter what, is... and that's what's happening.

He's now the adult in the room. Who'd a thunk it possible?

I doubt there is a consensus in that belief, as well.

 

[nonobaddog]

But opposing Trump, no matter what, is... and that's what's happening.

He's now the adult in the room. Who'd a thunk it possible?

Right! Opposition in debate is one thing but childish obstructionism of government function is where they are at. Like when a vote is coming up in the middle of the day and the dumocraps make a motion to adjourn, the motion gets voted down of course but they make another motion to adjourn which also gets voted down and then they do it again. This is so childish and only a dumocrap would do this obstruction of our government. Their little tantrums get old and annoying.

 

[KLB]

I doubt there is a consensus in that belief. At first he wanted $5.7B simply to re-open the government. Now, he want, in addition to the $5.7B: $800M in humanitarian assistance, $805 in drug detection tech, 2750 BP agents, 75 immigration judges... for 3 years of DACA protections, and an temporary extension of TPS. It's an offer that he probably knew the Democrats couldn't (and wouldn't) take. I imagine he thinks as you do, that the public will blame the Democrats for the shutdown if they reject the offer. I'm not at all confident that the public will. Given that the president, himself, called this the "Trump Shutdown," and the fact that he, as an individual, can end it, compared to the collective body of the House, I place the majority of the blame on him.

They are equally to blame for this. They are all a bunch of petulant children.

 

[Kutnupe14]

They are equally to blame for this. They are all a bunch of petulant children.

No argument there.

 

[mmpsteve]

No argument there.

So how do you explain that all the major Dems are on record as being in favor of a 'barrier' and increased illegal immigration enforcement, but they're not now? How is that even possible, that they would all change their minds simultaneously? Doesn't pass the Alabama smell test, now does it?

.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So how do you explain that all the major Dems are on record as being in favor of a 'barrier' and increased illegal immigration enforcement, but they're not now? How is that even possible, that they would all change their minds simultaneously? Doesn't pass the Alabama smell test, now does it?

.

Rhetoric. Being able to convey a message that appeals to all, rather than some Americans, would be helpful. Regardless of if the ultimate goal would actually be beneficial, if you continuously disparage groups of people, you will find that those would may have been inclined to support the original "fix," will suddenly oppose it.

 

[jbombelli]

Rhetoric. Being able to convey a message that appeals to all, rather than some Americans, would be helpful. Regardless of if the ultimate goal would actually be beneficial, if you continuously disparage groups of people, you will find that those would may have been inclined to support the original "fix," will suddenly oppose it.

So they're just a bunch of liars. They say things they don't believe just to get votes. Got it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So they're just a bunch of liars. They say things they don't believe just to get votes. Got it.

It's a bit more cerebral than that.

 

[OakRiver]

Rhetoric. Being able to convey a message that appeals to all, rather than some Americans, would be helpful.

Rhetoric? I doubt it is anything that lofty. It is fairer to say that both parties flip flop on their support of issues when they are no longer in power.

Regardless of if the ultimate goal would actually be beneficial, if you continuously disparage groups of people, you will find that those would may have been inclined to support the original "fix," will suddenly oppose it.

Those baskets of deplorables

 

[Kutnupe14]

Rhetoric? I doubt it is anything that lofty. It is fairer to say that both parties flip flop on their support of issues when they are no longer in power.


Those baskets of deplorables

That's certainly a valid perspective as well.

 

[nonobaddog]

TDS

 

[jbombelli]

It's a bit more cerebral than that.

No it isn't.

 

[KLB]

So they're just a bunch of liars. They say things they don't believe just to get votes. Got it.

That is pretty much the definition of a politician.

 

[T.Lex]

The offer of a DACA-esque compromise is part of what he should've been doing all along (that is, offer comprehensive immigration reform ideas). Good for Trump for putting it on the table. (Another example of how I think he has people monitoring INGO for good ideas.)

Yeah, sure, the Dems rejected what was offered, but it is now up for negotiation. They're again over-playing their hand - they should accept something soon as a starting point - and its being reflected in the RCP aggregate polling. After dropping fairly steadily up until last week, Trump's approval numbers appear to be leveling out, as with the difference between approval and disapproval.

Pelosi, et al., will usually find ways to alienate most reasonable people.

Now, this also assumes we can trust Trump to actually do what he says, which remains an open question. But, at least offering the limited "amnesty" is a starting point for moving in the right direction.

 

[BugI02]

I think if you researched the point, you would find Trump has always been willing to give DACAs a path to citizenship (although not their extended families and strictly by applying for same through channels while being allowed to stay in country during the process, which vets them for criminality) in exchange for the four pillars, which would end the problem going forward. In virtually all the agreements on immigration/border security of the last 40ish years, conservatives gave up concessions on illegals already here for promised efforts to restrict and eventually end the problem in the future. The vague promises of the other side were never followed up upon. People are sick of the problem, Dems have shown their hand in that they don't want any meaningful controls at the border. Trump is going to win this one, too