The Cops show up at my house the other day..

[GlockRock]

I'd even include the "dim" light in the subjective column. If it's out, it's out.

I got to thinking earlier about dash cams. They've been known to prove the cop's argument in court numerous times already as the tape doesn't lie. There's probably an equal number of citizens spared unnecessary harassment because of them as well.

A question for LEO's here. Out of curiosity, how long do you keep your dash cam footage? Say, you pull over a person and give them a ticket. 3 days later, you get called to your boss's office saying that the person you ticketed is filing a complaint of harassment, brutality, etc, would you still have your footage to verify your side of the story? Is there protocol on how long that footage is kept in case it is needed for future court cases?

My video's are kept for a minimum of 1 year from my in car camera. I have some tapes from probably close to 3 years ago. If it's a criminal case, the video is burnt to CD and sent to the prosecutors office with the report.

 

[singlestacksig]

I got a good chuckle outa that.... Sooo there giving battered women used cell phones so they can call 911 in case of an emergency, only to have the rollers show up @ the original cell fon owners place???????????
Kind of a false hope for these women who think help is on its way

If the person stays on the line to tell the operator their location the cops can be sent..
but if they just call 911 and then shut the phone off, the police have no way to know for sure where the call came from... but the phone system will have the serial number of the phone, and the last known account holder.....

 

[hornadylnl]

My video's are kept for a minimum of 1 year from my in car camera. I have some tapes from probably close to 3 years ago. If it's a criminal case, the video is burnt to CD and sent to the prosecutors office with the report.

Thanks for the insight. I was figuring it was being stored digitally nowadays. Just thinking back to the days that tapes would have been used and what a mess it would be to keep an enormous amount of tapes for any given period of time.

Have you personally been able to go back and pull up footage that has cleared you in a complaint? I'd think the dash cam footage is a career saver.

 

[Denny347]

I'd even include the "dim" light in the subjective column. If it's out, it's out.

I got to thinking earlier about dash cams. They've been known to prove the cop's argument in court numerous times already as the tape doesn't lie. There's probably an equal number of citizens spared unnecessary harassment because of them as well.

A question for LEO's here. Out of curiosity, how long do you keep your dash cam footage? Say, you pull over a person and give them a ticket. 3 days later, you get called to your boss's office saying that the person you ticketed is filing a complaint of harassment, brutality, etc, would you still have your footage to verify your side of the story? Is there protocol on how long that footage is kept in case it is needed for future court cases?

We have a handful of cameras on the dept but those go to the DUI unit or the interdiction guys. Otherwise, we are forbidden from having our own camera. The dept won't provide them and we are strictly prohibited from buying our own. So I have no idea how long we keep the takes fro the handful that are issued. Kinda sucks.

 

[Denny347]

If the person stays on the line to tell the operator their location the cops can be sent..
but if they just call 911 and then shut the phone off, the police have no way to know for sure where the call came from... but the phone system will have the serial number of the phone, and the last known account holder.....

I don't think so. If it is an active account, it will show the number and the tower it bounced off of but no name. If it is a dead cell it will say "911 only" in place of the cell number and the tower it bounced off of. There are a ton of pre-pay phones that have to account. You buy it a the local 7-11 and start using it an we cannot tell who owns it.

 

[GlockRock]

Thanks for the insight. I was figuring it was being stored digitally nowadays. Just thinking back to the days that tapes would have been used and what a mess it would be to keep an enormous amount of tapes for any given period of time.

Have you personally been able to go back and pull up footage that has cleared you in a complaint? I'd think the dash cam footage is a career saver.

My new camera is digital with everything downloaded onto an external hard drive. It's security locked so I cant go in and delete anything. I have in fact have able to go back and watch encounters with people who have filed complaints and been cleared. We wear wireless external microphones that record our conversations on every call.
The old cameras were 8mm and storing the tapes was definitely an issue.

 

[groovatron]

My new camera is digital with everything downloaded onto an external hard drive. It's security locked so I cant go in and delete anything. I have in fact have able to go back and watch encounters with people who have filed complaints and been cleared. We wear wireless external microphones that record our conversations on every call.
The old cameras were 8mm and storing the tapes was definitely an issue.

Wow, and alot of us citizens complain about invasion of our privacy......you have to wear the mic and the whole bit.....everythings recorded. My hat goes off to you for dealing with that kind of scrutinization.....but at least it helps clear unjustified complaints

 

[antdog/zook]

how long are the audio tapes saved? how long have they been used? i would love to hear the audio of my stop on a motorcycle once.

 

[BE Mike]

Yes, driving is a privelage.

4th Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I don't see anywhere that says buggies (the 1780's version of the car) are exempted from their owners right to unreasonable searches. I guess since buggies weren't included in the string "persons, houses, papers, and effects", our courts can justify searching vehicles.

You can use whatever semantics you want to justify bogus excuses to pull over vehicles and "fish" for crimes, but does that square with our founders' intent of the 4th amendment? It is my belief that they don't. If you want to ticket me for a burnt out tail light, fine. Write me the ticket and I'll pay my fine. If I don't like it, I can work to get that law changed. But as a free citizen, I have the right to be treated as an innocent citizen until a LEO witnesses a crime. Following me for miles knowing you are going to pull me over but you just don't have cause yet is a clear violation of that.

Am I wrong in that people have skated on crimes because evidence was obtained illegally or they weren't read their rights?

Nowhere have I ever said that all, most or any other word that can be cosntrued as such that cops are bad, crooked, lazy, wtf ever you want to say. Why is it that some LEO's seem to think that their profession should shield them from any and all criticism? Name any profession out there that doesn't get criticized or face stereotypes? Priests are labeled as pedophiles, lawyers as liars, bankers as thieves, you name it. What do all of those people have in common? They are people, human beings. Cops are people, human beings. Why do they somehow deserve a holier than thou approach that no other profession is granted?

You show little practical knowledge of how police officers do their jobs. I am aware of my rights and know that a small minority of officers have and will violate them. You, however, seem to think that the law should prevent police officers from doing a lot of things that have held up in court. Some folks just can't deal with authority figures doing their jobs. Why do are you so intent on using stereotypes? A few on here seem to have an ax to grind. Cops are people, but they have successfully completed a screening process and training and are daily scrutinized and criticized by the public and their superiors. That is why I say that they are a cut above the average Joe and I stand by that.

Not everyone can complete the screening process, initial and ongoing training, and hold up to the constant scrutiny. It is a heavy load to bear, but it is necessary to make sure that they are doing it right. They have awesome power which must be and is managed. They make split-second decisions which are reviewed at the leisure of others.

If a citizen has a valid complaint and feels as though his or her rights have been violated during a specific incident, there are many channels available for redress of those grievances. One can file an official complaint with the department. One can hire a lawyer and sue. One can contact the ACLU. What I think happens on these forums is that either somebody doesn't like what transpired (or incorrectly assumed transpired) during an encounter with a law officer and although the citizen doesn't really have a valid complaint, they want to vent their anger so they start bashing cops. The other scenario is the individual who just can't stand authority figures and takes every opportunity to bash cops he/ she can find. I believe that neither of these things are representative of how the majority of folks feel about their public servants and the job that they do, many times at the expense of their welfare and that of their families.

I think no one wants to eliminate bad cops any more badly than the good cops. They are pretty hard on the bad apples. The vast majority of good ones deserve our respect and support.

 

[hornadylnl]

You show little practical knowledge of how police officers do their jobs. I am aware of my rights and know that a small minority of officers have and will violate them. You, however, seem to think that the law should prevent police officers from doing a lot of things that have held up in court. Some folks just can't deal with authority figures doing their jobs. Why do are you so intent on using stereotypes? A few on here seem to have an ax to grind. Cops are people, but they have successfully completed a screening process and training and are daily scrutinized and criticized by the public and their superiors. That is why I say that they are a cut above the average Joe and I stand by that.

Not everyone can complete the screening process, initial and ongoing training, and hold up to the constant scrutiny. It is a heavy load to bear, but it is necessary to make sure that they are doing it right. They have awesome power which must be and is managed. They make split-second decisions which are reviewed at the leisure of others.

If a citizen has a valid complaint and feels as though his or her rights have been violated during a specific incident, there are many channels available for redress of those grievances. One can file an official complaint with the department. One can hire a lawyer and sue. One can contact the ACLU. What I think happens on these forums is that either somebody doesn't like what transpired (or incorrectly assumed transpired) during an encounter with a law officer and although the citizen doesn't really have a valid complaint, they want to vent their anger so they start bashing cops. The other scenario is the individual who just can't stand authority figures and takes every opportunity to bash cops he/ she can find. I believe that neither of these things are representative of how the majority of folks feel about their public servants and the job that they do, many times at the expense of their welfare and that of their families.

I think no one wants to eliminate bad cops any more badly than the good cops. They are pretty hard on the bad apples. The vast majority of good ones deserve our respect and support.

And some on here act as though cops should be beyond question. To even believe that there is 1 single bad cop in the entire country makes us a cop basher.

I'm a Christian and I attend a church. Just because the pastor, elders and fellow attendees go their and profess with their mouths that they are Christians doesn't make it so. I listen to the pastor's sermons so to see if they square with God's Word. I watch the actions of the elders to see if they square with the responsibilities that the Bible has given them.

I'm a S I N N E R just like every other human being. There is only one person who walked this earth that was beyond reproach. Everyone else needs to be judged for their actions. I expect the others from my church to watch my deeds and actions and hold me accountable. I do the same for LEO's. I give each individual LEO the benefit of the doubt that they are a good LEO until that individual LEO proves otherwise.

I agree that LEO's aren't judges or legal scholars and it is their duty to arrest those who they believe to have committed a crime. It is their duty to turn over the information to the courts and let them sort it out. I as an individual can read and understand what our founders' intent was for the 4th amendment so why can't a LEO? I'm not a LEO and never will be one but if I were, I wouldn't go around treating every person I pulled over like a criminal and try to intimidate them into a search of their vehicle. All I'm asking of our LEO's is to treat us like citizens, not subjects. To the 99% who do, .

 

[BE Mike]

As citizens we have duties as related to law enforcement. One is to submit to an officer performing his/ her duty, including submitting to being handcuffed even though we haven't committed any crime. Another duty is to report crime and assist police officers in combating crime where appropriate. We also have a duty to officially report the bad apples. Yep there are some and we need to help them find other work.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

One is to submit to an officer performing his/ her duty, including submitting to being handcuffed even though we haven't committed any crime.

Hey, Mike? Have you watched any of the cop shows from the UK lately? It is funny the difference in the actions of the people that the cops deal with over there compared to over here.

Here, if a cop detains someone with or without handcuffs, one of the primary things they constantly watch for is that the detainee doesn't take off running from them to try to escape.

The UK cops, when they tell someone to stop, for the most part they absolutely stop. If they tell someone to stand in a certain spot they don't really seem to have to watch the guy to keep him from running. The detainee seems to be rooted to the spot simply by the words of the cop. Even if the cop is unarmed.

Just a silly observation, but interesting to me.

 

[Joe Williams]

Hey, Mike? Have you watched any of the cop shows from the UK lately? It is funny the difference in the actions of the people that the cops deal with over there compared to over here.

Here, if a cop detains someone with or without handcuffs, one of the primary things they constantly watch for is that the detainee doesn't take off running from them to try to escape.

The UK cops, when they tell someone to stop, for the most part they absolutely stop. If they tell someone to stand in a certain spot they don't really seem to have to watch the guy to keep him from running. The detainee seems to be rooted to the spot simply by the words of the cop. Even if the cop is unarmed.

Just a silly observation, but interesting to me.

You are seeing the difference between serfs and citizens. Even if the citizens are bad guys.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

Yeah, I understand your point, Joe. In some ways, that ideal of them standing still carries across to the whole rights (or lack of) issue that they are dealing with, no?

 

[BE Mike]

Hey, Mike? Have you watched any of the cop shows from the UK lately? It is funny the difference in the actions of the people that the cops deal with over there compared to over here.

Here, if a cop detains someone with or without handcuffs, one of the primary things they constantly watch for is that the detainee doesn't take off running from them to try to escape.

The UK cops, when they tell someone to stop, for the most part they absolutely stop. If they tell someone to stand in a certain spot they don't really seem to have to watch the guy to keep him from running. The detainee seems to be rooted to the spot simply by the words of the cop. Even if the cop is unarmed.

Just a silly observation, but interesting to me.

I've seen both sides, Blue Tile Spook. Mostly, it does seem that the average person in the UK has a lot more respect for their Bobbies than we have for our cops. It also seems that one cannot go anywhere in England without being on filmed by a camera. That might be a factor. OTOH, I have seen some sports riots over there where folks were roughing up the Bobbies pretty hard.