The Cops show up at my house the other day..

[BE Mike]

I think it's a good thing to check up on incomplete 911 calls but there is a huge difference between butt dialing and the dispatcher hearing your conversation about the Colts game then hearing a scream, commotion, etc. In the case of the butt dialer talking about the Colts game, I'm still not against the officers doing a follow up but they should obviously practice discretion. Knock on the door and ask if everything is ok and explain the call. Tell them not to butt dial 911 next time you big dummy.

In the case of the blood curdling scream, that is a no brainer as there is definite probable cause.

But I think contraband found in the case of an incomplete 911 call should not be admissable in court. Someone brought up the point that an officer probably isn't going to ignore a bag of dope. Any officer with a badge knows that anything seized without a warrant is inadmissable in court. If the courts were to determine that contraband found during a specific incomplete 911 call were inadmissable, there would be no need for the officer to file a charge.

Pulling a guy over for a burnt out light and finding other crimes in the process is one thing. What I'm talking about is a "bored" officer seeing a car he wants to stop and then "finds" a reason to pull them over. In that case, the "probable cause" of the tail light was merely a ruse to make the stop. I believe that is a clear abuse of the spirit of the 4th amendment. Some time ago, a member here said they were pulled over for a burnt out license plate light. At the end of the stop, the officer told him it wasn't burnt out but was pretty dim. To me, that is pure abuse of the law.

Buddy, you are way out of your league with your legal opinions about what is admissible evidence and what is not. As for your references to traffic violations; driving is not a right, it is a privilege. When you are driving a defective vehicle, you run the risk of having an officer pull you over to enforce the traffic laws. You also are assuming a lot in your "bored officer" scenario.

It is interesting that officers can't win no matter what they do. If they are seen eating in public, they are lazy slugs. If they are pro-active, checking out their beat by making traffic stops, they are out violating folks rights. If they stop a car for minor equipment violations and don't write a ticket, then they must be on a "fishing" expedition. If they make the same stop and write a ticket, they are either trying to gain revenue for the government or they are overbearing and throwing their weight around.

Cops are people. For the most part, they are better than the average run-of-the-mill citizens. The never ending weeding-out process gets rid of most of the chaff. No offense is directed to you. You are entitled to your opinions, but maybe if you based your opinions on something, I would put more stock in them. You just might want to consider signing up for a citizen's police academy.

 

[milltech]

My neighbor was vacationing in Florida and he got a phone call from a friend about cops being in his driveway. He called me and asked if I would go check it out so I went over to talk to them.

They said a 911 call came from his house, I said that's very unlikely because like me he strictly uses his cell phone and removed land line years ago, I told them besides he is Florida on vacation.

They asked me for his cell phone number, so I said let me call and ask if it's ok first. Well they called him and got permission to do a quick look around, they found nothing unusual but called dispatch again to verify address. We looked at each other shrugged our shoulders then left.

Never did findout why or how it happened.....

 

[jsgolfman]

Cops are people. For the most part, they are better than the average run-of-the-mill citizens.

I beg to differ and am disappointed you have that attitude.

 

[hornadylnl]

Buddy, you are way out of your league with your legal opinions about what is admissible evidence and what is not. As for your references to traffic violations; driving is not a right, it is a privilege. When you are driving a defective vehicle, you run the risk of having an officer pull you over to enforce the traffic laws. You also are assuming a lot in your "bored officer" scenario.

It is interesting that officers can't win no matter what they do. If they are seen eating in public, they are lazy slugs. If they are pro-active, checking out their beat by making traffic stops, they are out violating folks rights. If they stop a car for minor equipment violations and don't write a ticket, then they must be on a "fishing" expedition. If they make the same stop and write a ticket, they are either trying to gain revenue for the government or they are overbearing and throwing their weight around.

Cops are people. For the most part, they are better than the average run-of-the-mill citizens. The never ending weeding-out process gets rid of most of the chaff. No offense is directed to you. You are entitled to your opinions, but maybe if you based your opinions on something, I would put more stock in them. You just might want to consider signing up for a citizen's police academy.

Yes, driving is a privelage.

4th Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I don't see anywhere that says buggies (the 1780's version of the car) are exempted from their owners right to unreasonable searches. I guess since buggies weren't included in the string "persons, houses, papers, and effects", our courts can justify searching vehicles.

You can use whatever semantics you want to justify bogus excuses to pull over vehicles and "fish" for crimes, but does that square with our founders' intent of the 4th amendment? It is my belief that they don't. If you want to ticket me for a burnt out tail light, fine. Write me the ticket and I'll pay my fine. If I don't like it, I can work to get that law changed. But as a free citizen, I have the right to be treated as an innocent citizen until a LEO witnesses a crime. Following me for miles knowing you are going to pull me over but you just don't have cause yet is a clear violation of that.

Am I wrong in that people have skated on crimes because evidence was obtained illegally or they weren't read their rights?

Nowhere have I ever said that all, most or any other word that can be cosntrued as such that cops are bad, crooked, lazy, wtf ever you want to say. Why is it that some LEO's seem to think that their profession should shield them from any and all criticism? Name any profession out there that doesn't get criticized or face stereotypes? Priests are labeled as pedophiles, lawyers as liars, bankers as thieves, you name it. What do all of those people have in common? They are people, human beings. Cops are people, human beings. Why do they somehow deserve a holier than thou approach that no other profession is granted?

 

[singlestacksig]

the term is called "SWATing" as in sending the SWAT team on a wild goose chase..
It was on the news last year.. you can spoof the 911 caller ID system and make it look like a call is coming from somones house..

Years ago, like 1980s, the 911 system knew where the call was coming frome based on the physical wire linking the house to the central switch..
But even then the database might not be updated and you could get an error..
now days with mobil phones & VOIP systems they really can not be sure where a call is coming from..

Also with the requirment that cell phones & land lines must still be able to call 911 you could get a real call but not know for sure where it is coming from..
some cell phone you thought you threw out 2 years ago can still call 911, and if someone does and hangs up,, where do the cops go? to the last person who had an account with that phone..

 

[Anonymous]

some cell phone you thought you threw out 2 years ago can still call 911, and if someone does and hangs up,, where do the cops go? to the last person who had an account with that phone..

^^This is what I'm thinking. I just can't remember if I had a different cell phone number, when I first moved here.

 

[singlestacksig]

^^This is what I'm thinking. I just can't remember if I had a different cell phone number, when I first moved here.

t does? not have to be a new number.. just any old phone.. those old cell phone collection boxes at best buy and such.. a lot of those phones get given to womens shelters as 911 only phones..

they still will call 911 even though there is no phone # connected to it..
same with "shut off" land lines.. plug a phone in and dial 911.. if the wires are still conected to phone company switch you will get the police..

 

[cubsfan1984]

Pulling a guy over for a burnt out light and finding other crimes in the process is one thing. What I'm talking about is a "bored" officer seeing a car he wants to stop and then "finds" a reason to pull them over. In that case, the "probable cause" of the tail light was merely a ruse to make the stop. I believe that is a clear abuse of the spirit of the 4th amendment. Some time ago, a member here said they were pulled over for a burnt out license plate light. At the end of the stop, the officer told him it wasn't burnt out but was pretty dim. To me, that is pure abuse of the law.

Same thing happened to me when I was driving with my g/f a few years ago. Officer pulled me over and asked if I know why. I told him I have no idea. I was told to step out of my vehicle and he will show me why.

He directs me to the back of my car and points to my license plate with a dim light and says he couldn't see it at all.Then proceeds to tell me my eyes look a little red.Asked me to empty my pockets so I pulled out my cigarettes and lighter.

Backup arrived and asked for my license, so I handed it to him,while the one is running my name the other told me to stand up against my trunk while he went over to the passenger side with a flashlight snooping around and looking through the windows.

Of course they found nothing and I have a clean record. Actually had the nerve to say I'm lucky because they will let me go with just a verbal warning for tail light.

I am in no way saying all cops are like this. But I have only been pulled over 3 times and this was the one BAD experience.

 

[samot]

t does? not have to be a new number.. just any old phone.. those old cell phone collection boxes at best buy and such.. a lot of those phones get given to womens shelters as 911 only phones..

they still will call 911 even though there is no phone # connected to it..
same with "shut off" land lines.. plug a phone in and dial 911.. if the wires are still conected to phone company switch you will get the police..

I got a good chuckle outa that.... Sooo there giving battered women used cell phones so they can call 911 in case of an emergency, only to have the rollers show up @ the original cell fon owners place???????????
Kind of a false hope for these women who think help is on its way

 

[samot]

Same thing happened to me when I was driving with my g/f a few years ago. Officer pulled me over and asked if I know why. I told him I have no idea. I was told to step out of my vehicle and he will show me why.

He directs me to the back of my car and points to my license plate with a dim light and says he couldn't see it at all.Then proceeds to tell me my eyes look a little red.Asked me to empty my pockets so I pulled out my cigarettes and lighter.

Backup arrived and asked for my license, so I handed it to him,while the one is running my name the other told me to stand up against my trunk while he went over to the passenger side with a flashlight snooping around and looking through the windows.

Of course they found nothing and I have a clean record. Actually had the nerve to say I'm lucky because they will let me go with just a verbal warning for tail light.

Had similar thing happen to me traveling east on 74 ISP pulls me over, aproaches passenger side, I said can i ask what you pulled me over for officer, he said get out of the car come back to my car & ill tell you. so i did. He said i was following to close to the vehicle in front of me , I asked if i was as close as he was to my vehichle when he turned the lights on. He said it didnt matter. I said OK, He asked if i had ever been arrested, I said you mean it doesnt tell you on your lil perputor there, he says no i cant find anything on you but your name isnt flashing red so thats good for you, He asked again if i had ever been arrested, again i told him if it wasnt on his perputor i didnt feel i had to tell him. Thats when he said how come your eyes look glassy, i chuckled a little & said come on dude. He said somethings just not rite with you. Then he says im going to have to do the follow the ink pen game, I said OK, so while trying to do the follow the ink pen game i noticed (well i noticed when i first seen him) he had a lazy eye, which to be honest made it very difficult to do the ink pen game , he made me do it twice... anyway he ended with do you think i should ticket you or giv you a warning, i said a warning, he said OK, he wrote it up & as i got out of his car he said "what would happen if i called for a drug dog, I said i would be fine but my wife would be late for her hair appointment, he said ok Ill be waiting for you on your way back thru, I said OK.....
He was almost nice in a way , but he was rude as hell by incinuating that i was some druged out guy or something. All in all i guess it ended up ok cause i didnt get a ticket

 

[ISHOOTHST'S]

 

[pinshooter45]

Look in your Phone!

I have a verizon phone and if you go into "phone settings" There is a locator option. One is all calls the other is 911 only. I'll venture a guess that if you all look in your cell phone settings or what ever you phone calls it. You will find something simalar. Aorry if some one already posted this info just diidn't want to read 10pg of post right now.

 

[hornadylnl]

Cubsfan and samot
I've never had an experience like yours but if I did, I couldn't wait to break my foot off in those particular leos rear ends the first chance I got. They'd never get any help from me if they got in a jam. It'd be hard to do that in a big city but in rural areas, you are more likely to encounter them again.

A good cop can check you for being under the influence without being a prick. In my view, what they did was abuse of power.

 

[samot]

Cubsfan and samot
I've never had an experience like yours but if I did, I couldn't wait to break my foot off in those particular leos rear ends the first chance I got. They'd never get any help from me if they got in a jam. It'd be hard to do that in a big city but in rural areas, you are more likely to encounter them again.

A good cop can check you for being under the influence without being a prick. In my view, what they did was abuse of power.

Tried to give you rep, but it says i have to spread it around.

The worst thing is, you & i both know there are some damn fine LEOs out there , but a few really negitive experiences with a couple bad ones, makes me fear everyone that pulls me over. We shouldnt have to feel that way. Period

 

[Denny347]

I hate the "dead cell" calls. Very often we get prank 911 calls from dead cells that a person on the other end will say someone is shot, or someone is breaking into their house, or something that gets us all running hot to an area. Sadly we cannot find those who do this. Then when we get a crap load of fake calls, we will receive a real one on a dead cell and it will throw us all off. We get enough real DOAs, persons shot, persons stabbed that we have to take them seriously. It sucks and someday one of us are going to get hurt.

 

[Eddie]

Had similar thing happen to me traveling east on 74 ISP pulls me over, aproaches passenger side, I said can i ask what you pulled me over for officer, he said get out of the car come back to my car & ill tell you. so i did. He said i was following to close to the vehicle in front of me , I asked if i was as close as he was to my vehichle when he turned the lights on. He said it didnt matter. I said OK, He asked if i had ever been arrested, I said you mean it doesnt tell you on your lil perputor there, he says no i cant find anything on you but your name isnt flashing red so thats good for you, He asked again if i had ever been arrested, again i told him if it wasnt on his perputor i didnt feel i had to tell him. Thats when he said how come your eyes look glassy, i chuckled a little & said come on dude. He said somethings just not rite with you. Then he says im going to have to do the follow the ink pen game, I said OK, so while trying to do the follow the ink pen game i noticed (well i noticed when i first seen him) he had a lazy eye, which to be honest made it very difficult to do the ink pen game , he made me do it twice... anyway he ended with do you think i should ticket you or giv you a warning, i said a warning, he said OK, he wrote it up & as i got out of his car he said "what would happen if i called for a drug dog, I said i would be fine but my wife would be late for her hair appointment, he said ok Ill be waiting for you on your way back thru, I said OK.....
He was almost nice in a way , but he was rude as hell by incinuating that i was some druged out guy or something. All in all i guess it ended up ok cause i didnt get a ticket

This situation is different from the "dim light" examples. When a person gets pulled over for something like following too closely, driving left of center or speeding, it is solely a case of the LEO's word against the citizen. When the LEO asks to search the car it places the citizen in a predicament. They either have to submit to a search in hopes that they will get out of getting a ticket or refuse and risk getting a ticket. Mechanical problems with a car can be documented. Things like driving left of center can't. The citizen is stuck with a ticket that they likely can't get out of in court because they refused to submit to an unreasonable search.

 

[furbymac]

another possibility is the "app" on the iphone that you can get that you can change the number you are calling from and changes your voice maybe someone just chose a random number and it happened to be yours??

 

[hornadylnl]

I hate the "dead cell" calls. Very often we get prank 911 calls from dead cells that a person on the other end will say someone is shot, or someone is breaking into their house, or something that gets us all running hot to an area. Sadly we cannot find those who do this. Then when we get a crap load of fake calls, we will receive a real one on a dead cell and it will throw us all off. We get enough real DOAs, persons shot, persons stabbed that we have to take them seriously. It sucks and someday one of us are going to get hurt.

In the cases of prank calls, I totally sympathize with you and your fellow officers. It would be nice if you could catch them and prosecute them to the fullest extent. It's the whole "the boy who cried wolf" thing. You get 10 prank calls in a row and the 11th is real but you have your guard down. That is a legitimate concern and hadn't thought of it.

 

[hornadylnl]

This situation is different from the "dim light" examples. When a person gets pulled over for something like following too closely, driving left of center or speeding, it is solely a case of the LEO's word against the citizen. When the LEO asks to search the car it places the citizen in a predicament. They either have to submit to a search in hopes that they will get out of getting a ticket or refuse and risk getting a ticket. Mechanical problems with a car can be documented. Things like driving left of center can't. The citizen is stuck with a ticket that they likely can't get out of in court because they refused to submit to an unreasonable search.

I'd even include the "dim" light in the subjective column. If it's out, it's out.

I got to thinking earlier about dash cams. They've been known to prove the cop's argument in court numerous times already as the tape doesn't lie. There's probably an equal number of citizens spared unnecessary harassment because of them as well.

A question for LEO's here. Out of curiosity, how long do you keep your dash cam footage? Say, you pull over a person and give them a ticket. 3 days later, you get called to your boss's office saying that the person you ticketed is filing a complaint of harassment, brutality, etc, would you still have your footage to verify your side of the story? Is there protocol on how long that footage is kept in case it is needed for future court cases?

 

[samot]

I hate the "dead cell" calls. Very often we get prank 911 calls from dead cells that a person on the other end will say someone is shot, or someone is breaking into their house, or something that gets us all running hot to an area. Sadly we cannot find those who do this. Then when we get a crap load of fake calls, we will receive a real one on a dead cell and it will throw us all off. We get enough real DOAs, persons shot, persons stabbed that we have to take them seriously. It sucks and someday one of us are going to get hurt.

ya, that is BS, & totally abuses the 911 service, as well as endangers you & other officers