The Coming Paradigm Shift on Climate

[Bunnykid68]

The global warming fight makes more and more people poorer everyday. How many people have problems affording their utilities now, how many more will have problems in 5 years because we keep forcing the price up. Very difficult for a lot of folks to advance themselves when the things they depend on for everyday life keeps going up in price because of to many government regulations.

Its about the money and control, always has been, always will be

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

The global warming fight makes more and more people poorer everyday. How many people have problems affording their utilities now, how many more will have problems in 5 years because we keep forcing the price up. Very difficult for a lot of folks to advance themselves when the things they depend on for everyday life keeps going up in price because of to many government regulations.

This.

Its about the money and control, always has been, always will be

And this.

 

[bobzilla]

I want to know why some people on here don't agree with keeping the planet clean and suitable for people for generations that'll come after us.

I personally would like to see some physical evidence of ANYONE in this thread that actually said such a thing (and wasn't being facietious). I'll be patiently waiting.

 

[Rhoadmar]

In the '70s we were told were facing an imminent ice age. Then it became global warming. Now it's man caused climate change. What is the next manufactured imaginary crisis on the list?

 

[churchmouse]

In the '70s we were told were facing an imminent ice age. Then it became global warming. Now it's man caused climate change. What is the next manufactured imaginary crisis on the list?

Scientists are jaded by the research grants and revenue streams these days. What ever pays the best is where their loyalty's stand. Follow the money/control.

 

[Rhoadmar]

I'm sure an ends justifies the means philosophy is in play. After all they are doing important scientific research.

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

I tend to fall into the camp that looks at the past ice ages and scratches my head. We all can agree that the earth goes through cycles. Even all but your most ardent Global Warming activists will cede that point. What we can't seem to agree on is how we handle ourselves in the modern world and how/if our current behavior affects our environment. I'm no scientist and neither are you so I really don't know. What I can see is that global temps seem to be rising at a faster rate than they have in the past. However, we also have more accurate methods of measurement than we did in the past so...does that affect the numbers? Again, I'm not an expert so I really don't know.

It seems that in the name of "Global Warming", regulations have pushed technologies and costs on end users that we're not prepared for. I say we give technology time to catch up with itself and watch as more efficient (and cleaner) energy sources are discovered and put to good use. I'm all for that as I'm sure most everyone here is. What I don't want to see is what has happened in China. A total lack of ANY regulation on pollution standards (which affect EVERYONE) has led to record levels of smog and pollution that drift across the Pacific and even affect our West Coast. People here are breathing toxic crap from China...does this seem like a good idea to anyone? I didn't think so...

 

[88GT]

I feel like a broken record here, but we should be embracing a warming trend with open arms. The costs of cooling, in terms of dollars and lives, is far greater than the cost of warming. We don't have to have air conditioning in the summer, but we do have to heat our homes in the winter. Growing seasons will shorten in a cooler climate. Geographic ranges for agriculture will decrease in a cooler climate.

There is no evidence that oceans will actually rise. And considering that ice has a greater volume than water, melting the polar ice could conceivably decrease sea levels (if that were the only factor). And as much as it seems catastrophic to lose species, the earth's species have never been static. Change is the name of the game.

 

[88GT]

I tend to fall into the camp that looks at the past ice ages and scratches my head. We all can agree that the earth goes through cycles. Even all but your most ardent Global Warming activists will cede that point. What we can't seem to agree on is how we handle ourselves in the modern world and how/if our current behavior affects our environment. I'm no scientist and neither are you so I really don't know. What I can see is that global temps seem to be rising at a faster rate than they have in the past. However, we also have more accurate methods of measurement than we did in the past so...does that affect the numbers? Again, I'm not an expert so I really don't know.

It seems that in the name of "Global Warming", regulations have pushed technologies and costs on end users that we're not prepared for. I say we give technology time to catch up with itself and watch as more efficient (and cleaner) energy sources are discovered and put to good use. I'm all for that as I'm sure most everyone here is. What I don't want to see is what has happened in China. A total lack of ANY regulation on pollution standards (which affect EVERYONE) has led to record levels of smog and pollution that drift across the Pacific and even affect our West Coast. People here are breathing toxic crap from China...does this seem like a good idea to anyone? I didn't think so...

You sure about that?

 

[churchmouse]

I feel like a broken record here, but we should be embracing a warming trend with open arms. The costs of cooling, in terms of dollars and lives, is far greater than the cost of warming. We don't have to have air conditioning in the summer, but we do have to heat our homes in the winter. Growing seasons will shorten in a cooler climate. Geographic ranges for agriculture will decrease in a cooler climate.

There is no evidence that oceans will actually rise. And considering that ice has a greater volume than water, melting the polar ice could conceivably decrease sea levels (if that were the only factor). And as much as it seems catastrophic to lose species, the earth's species have never been static. Change is the name of the game.

Not starting an argument but if I read correctly you say that melting the ice caps could decrease sea levels. Trying to wrap my small brain around that.
Explain pleas.

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

You sure about that?

It's a pretty safe bet. If one shows up I'll be sure to redact my statement!

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

If anyone out there doesn't realize that the human race will be the sole cause for their own final demise, however it may occur, then I suggest that they would think differently if only they were to be acquainted some of them.


I mean, I feel like the global warming argument is like quibbling over a point spread or something.

 

[Leadeye]

Where have I heard that "moral equivalent of war" argument before? Jimmy Carter during the 70s talking about energy, back when "leading scientists" all said there would be no gasoline by 2000 and that we would be in a new ice age.

 

[Hoosier8]

While there is disagreement on details of climate change, I just don't see why we shouldn't leave this planet better than how we found it. If the green crowd is wrong then I guess there's nothing to worry about, but if they are right we will eventually come to a point where it's unsustainable. Better safe than sorry if you ask me. I want to know why some people on here don't agree with keeping the planet clean and suitable for people for generations that'll come after us.

A noble cause but the disruption that is required by those advocating it is not quantified. Another thing to keep in mind is that the Western countries have already reached wealth and can use that wealth to mitigate things like pollution but undeveloped countries are scrambling to gain some kind of wealth and that requires resources. They are the ones with the fastest growing use of carbon resources and a world limit would severely harm their ability to improve.

By far, the cheapest forms of energy are still oil and coal.

 

[findingZzero]

Not starting an argument but if I read correctly you say that melting the ice caps could decrease sea levels. Trying to wrap my small brain around that.
Explain pleas.

While it is true that water is the most dense several degrees above freezing (that property allowing water to freeze from the top, but rarely able to freeze to the bottom of a body of water) allowing aquatic life to survive the winter, and life to generally thrive on the planet, water freezes and becomes less dense (more volume) as a solid. However, being less dense than the surrounding water, ice floats so the volume of ice, though greater than the water it took to make it, does not displace more water (I think). Ask me about how the universe started. Or subscribe to my latest publication "Why Ice Floats and How the Universe Began." V1 #1, and "Why We Should Trash The Planet." V7 #36.

Capitalism runs on money. If you want something to get done you have to make it profitable. This does not make it bogus, though it can. Whoever spelled facetious wrong, it's spelled facetious (I think). Google is yer friend. Don't be layzee...

 

[jgreiner]

Good Lord.

Not buying into the bull**** that is [STRIKE]global cooling[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]global warming[/STRIKE] global climate change does not mean we are for a "dirty planet".
Get real with that progressive strawman talking point.

Hey, there is NOTHING wrong with hugging a tree......................................on the way up to your deerstand!!

 

[churchmouse]

While it is true that water is the most dense several degrees above freezing (that property allowing water to freeze from the top, but rarely able to freeze to the bottom of a body of water) allowing aquatic life to survive the winter, and life to generally thrive on the planet, water freezes and becomes less dense (more volume) as a solid. However, being less dense then the surrounding water, ice floats so the volume of ice, though greater than the water it took to make it, does not displace more water (I think). Ask me about how the universe started. Or subscribe to my latest publication "Why Ice Floats and How the Universe Began." V1 #1, and "Why We Should Trash The Planet." V7 #36.

Capitalism runs on money. If you want something to get done you have to make it profitable. This does not make it bogus, though it can. Whoever spelled facetious wrong, it's spelled facetious (I think). Google is yer friend. Don't be layzee...

I know water floats and working with Ice Bank systems to air condition schools I understand the density and will float thing. I also know there is land under the south polar ice cap. To melt all of that ice I would think it to raise sea level measurably but not catastrophically. Might loose a bit of beach here and there.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Not starting an argument but if I read correctly you say that melting the ice caps could decrease sea levels. Trying to wrap my small brain around that.
Explain pleas.

Ice is bigger than water. Have you ever frozen a bottle of water and see it expand?

 

[Bunnykid68]

I know water floats and working with Ice Bank systems to air condition schools I understand the density and will float thing. I also know there is land under the south polar ice cap. To melt all of that ice I would think it to raise sea level measurably but not catastrophically. Might loose a bit of beach here and there.

We could only be so lucky to lose about 100 miles inland on both coast

 

[churchmouse]

We could only be so lucky to lose about 100 miles inland on both coast

I was thinking that but did not post it. I doubt there is that much water in the ice. Might loose a few islands here and there and Jersey shore would be altered.