Texas to take up bill requiring Ten Commandments in every public school

[KLB]

Like I said to Jamil, let's use what I believe to be your way of thinking. If it's "just something hanging around the classroom and that's really not an endorsement or establishment":

• Why not a poster with the 5 pillars of Islam hanging in Mrs. Jones 2nd grade class. I mean, It's just good morality right?
• Would a pride flag hanging beside the white board at the front of the class be ok?
• How about pictures of ALL kinds of American families. Two men with a child, a trans woman and a cis woman with adopted black children, two women and their occasional third party love interest?

I assume (although I may be wrong) that you'd have a problem with these. Do we need a reminder that forcing OUR beliefs to be taught is school is bad a dangerous? If you set up a system where you can force your values on people, then you lose the right to complain when someone else uses that same system to force theirs onto you.

Well, some of those are already happening. Using your logic, it should be OK to post the Commandments too.

 

[Shadow01]

Do we Christians even believe, "in God we trust"? If so, then why are we so fearful, and hitch or wagons to immoral leaders to gain political power?

Were American Christians better that Christians in the USSR in the fifties? In terms of freedom and earthy life, clearly yes. But in terms of eternity and serving God, as is our purpose?

I fully believe that Christian society and Christian government leads to better outcome for all, but I'm not sold on achieving that via political means.

Please point me to 1 politician that is not a sinner That we can “attach” ourselves to. God has used immortal men to achieve his will throughout history. That’s the lesson.

 

[Ingomike]

That doesn't seem like a serious question. Are you saying that if Republican legislators aren't allowed to ban any books they choose, that the logical and unstoppable result is Huslter magazine becoming required reading in 1st grade?

Of course not, the premise is ridiculous and you know it. It is, by the way, already against the law to "show or provide" pornography to minors ( I.C. 35-49-3-3).

I suspect the problem here is that we're talking about books that contain a world view that make a narrow subset of people uncomfortable. If you open the door for banning books based on political agenda, then you should remember that people "on the other side" also get that right. You should read some history about who has banned books, and how that turned out.

Do you think only Hustler is porn?.

Just stop with the “banning books“ BS. NOBODY is banning ANY books, period.

The problem is this kind of irrational thinking and leftist talking points. If a man was showing your 7 year old daughter or granddaughter a book with depictions of and how to do oral sex you would be fine with that? The books are in elementary school libraries. Is keeping cigarettes, alcohol from minors “banning” them? Of course not.

And it does not matter if the books are even in elementary libraries in Indiana, they are in other states and no need to wait until they are here to make it clear they are not legal for children…

Lenin something, something, useful…

 

[Ingomike]

I will remind you that the "separation of church and state"

Please show that quote in the constitution…

 

[Ingomike]

Do we need a reminder that forcing OUR beliefs to be taught is school is bad a dangerous?

Children ARE being taught beleifs in public school, this battle is over just what beliefs.

The pendulum has swung way too far and many complacent parents have awakened to the despicable teachings of their schools…

 

[Ingomike]

As I side note to the reply's I've had to make today. I can't believe that I have to, on an American gun forum, have to explain that banning books, censorship and government endorsed religion is bad thing. It's like I walked through the looking glass... I suspect I'm just falling victim to squeaky wheel syndrome.

You are just regurgitating the leftists that are indoctrinating children and have been for a good while.

Again, it is a total lie to say anyone is banning books, and censoring anything at all. Do you not believe society can keep anything from children?

I cannot believe that “on an American gun forum” that there would be those offering support to groomers…

 

[Gabriel]

Answering a question with a question?

Are you suggesting that all banners, postings and such are for teaching and endorsing?

That was answering a question with 2 questions! You’re up!

If it posted at a school, then it is endorsed by the school and the government that passed the law to make it mandatory to post. Yes.

 

[Route 45]

Please show that quote in the constitution…

I don't see anything prohibiting rape in the Constitution.

It's almost like the Constitution is not the entire body of law in our country.

 

[jamil]

OK! Let’s do it!

BTW, No belief is actually faith. Everyone has faith in something, everyone. Every positive saying, every uplifting poster can be considered religion. Some shrinks say certain colors in a room will produce specific feelings - to many that can be a religion. Easter bunnies, fall decorations, Halloween……dang - everything can be considered bad for one reason or another; why do you get to determine what the school children see (All while the weird man in women’s clothing is lap dancing an 8 y/o?) Let’s give a “spring break” - whoa, just what Wicca people do? Right?

Where does it start and where does it end? Who determines what influences are allowed in school?

Everything is religion?

 

[foszoe]

Oh. Here's a good one. What if one teacher in school teaches pre-trib? And another teaches post? Or mid-trib? Now there's a knock down drag out fight waiting to brew at the next school board meeting.

then they're both wrong

 

[Ingomike]

I don't see anything prohibiting rape in the Constitution.

It's almost like the Constitution is not the entire body of law in our country.

Did anyone say it was? I didn’t. But “separation of church and state” is bandied about like it is in the constitution and it is not…

 

[foszoe]

What's the empirical evidence that those biblical events were observed? Show me the stuff and I have no problem accepting it. You can start with Adam and Eve.

I think you are going too far....the gospels are eye witness accounts of a dead person being raised. I imagine there is more to it for you.

Observation plus time equals disbelief unless the hypothesis is demonstrated repeatedly by testing.

I think the real discussion is which is more correct...empirical vs experiential.

The experiential can not be proven adequately to the empirical mindset.

 

[jamil]

Did anyone say it was? I didn’t. But “separation of church and state” is bandied about like it is in the constitution and it is not…

People refer to the 1A establishment clause as the thing that separates church and state.

 

[Ingomike]

People refer to the 1A establishment clause as the thing that separates church and state.

No it does not. No more than the 2A is about militia…

 

[jamil]

I think you are going too far....the gospels are eye witness accounts of a dead person being raised. I imagine there is more to it for you.

Observation plus time equals disbelief unless the hypothesis is demonstrated repeatedly by testing.

I think the real discussion is which is more correct...empirical vs experiential.

The experiential can not be proven adequately to the empirical mindset.

Please experiment. Test it. Let me know what you find.

 

[jamil]

No it does not. No more than the 2A is about militia…

Who may establish an official religion at any level of government?

Oh. And the 2A is at least a little about militias. Of course the meaning hinges the semantics of religion.

 

[foszoe]

Please experiment. Test it. Let me know what you find.

I am happy being experiential. Makes my life more fulfilling

 

[Shadow01]

We are a nation founded under Christian beliefs. You will never remove religious influence from our government without destroying the very foundations it was founded on.

 

[Route 45]

Did anyone say it was? I didn’t. But “separation of church and state” is bandied about like it is in the constitution and it is not…

The First Amendment literally prohibits the establishment of religion by the government. If you don't believe that posting religious text on the walls of public, government funded schools is an element of establishing religion, then you shouldn't be shocked when some want to take your guns because you don't belong to a well-regulated militia. We either pay attention to the intent of the founding fathers outside of the text of the Constitution, known by their published speeches and writings, or we let Karen decide if you are in a militia or not.

If we are ignoring the ideas of the founding fathers, I guess Thomas Jefferson can be told, posthumously of course, to go pound sand.

“Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.”

Thomas Jefferson - Jan. 1, 1802

 

[Nunya]

People refer to the 1A establishment clause as the thing that separates church and state.

The 1st Amendment states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion; or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." It then states that Congress cannot abridge free speech, or the press, or the right to peaceably assemble and to petition the government for redress of grievances.

There IS NO "separation of church and state" listed in the Constitution--only that CONGRESS cannot establish a "national" religion like the Church of England had done. Our Founding Fathers were overwhelmingly Christian and wanted the freedom for everyone to practice their religion how they saw fit. The entire LIE about church and state separation was from a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist, where he stated his opinion that there should be a separation between them.