taking aim

[new2guns]

I am not sure how best to take aim. I note that on hunting shows many hunter carry a shooting stick to stabilize their rifle to enhance their aim. When at the range I frequently use a bench rest or bean bags for the same reason. However, in the woods or in the field or in a deer stand I don't utilize a device to rest the frowned on. Therefore I struggle between either attempting to rigidly hold the rifle absolutely still on target or somehow go with the minor movements of my hands and pull the trigger as I pass the target. I am using a 2 to 4x adjustable bushnell scope on a marlin lever action rifle. What am I doing wrong. what works for you. appreciate the help.

 

[AboveTheBest]

Try bracing one hand against the tree and resting your forend on the off-hand.

Also, try setting up your tree stand so you have limbs or branches in front of you to take advantage of as a rest.
I personally always put my stand on the other side of the direction I plan to shoot/expect to see deer. This way I have the tree to block the deer's view of me, and I can use the sides of the tree to steady my shot.

 

[Ruffnek]

Outside of being in a stand and using the advice that AboveTheBest posted, you could take a kneeling stance or brace up against a tree in a standing position.




Or you could be totally badass like Major Henry Fulton.

 

[Leadeye]

The side of the tree trick works well.

 

[shibumiseeker]

All of the above are great suggestions, but let me also add: PRACTICE!

Most people only shoot a couple of rounds to make sure they are on target (well, most people who actually care about hitting anything and are not just bozos with guns in the woods), but several hundred rounds freehand over the course of a few weeks can get you a really good idea of what kinds of shots you can take from what kinds of positions, AND you will get better. And you don't even have to shoot to practice though that is the best, practice holding the gun steady and dry firing on a target (aimed at a safe backstop). You can do that daily and 10 dry fire shots a day for a month will tighten your live fire groups considerably.

 

[phylodog]

Contrary to how I shoot a pistol, when shooting a rifle I rely heavily on my strong hand to support the weight of rifle and pull it back into my shoulder. This frees up my support hand to be a little more gentle in making corrections to get the sights or scope to hold steadier.

 

[AboveTheBest]

Or you could be totally badass like Major Henry Fulton.
View attachment 41872

This is outstanding.

 

[natdscott]

Sorry for the length of the following reply, but I've got time, and you asked a big question.


Alright. First things first: shots on game are not abstract, they aren't made of paper, and you owe it to the animal in front of your bullet to send it to it's maker from the MOST stable position you can attain at that moment. 90% of the time, that is NOT standing unsupported or "offhand". I know about shooting offhand, and I still refuse to take those shots on deer unless there is NO other viable option. In fact, I will generally pass on the shot if I think I stand any chance of missing...it's hunting, not combat. Go prone, sit, kneel, use a tree, use a post, go rice-paddy, use a hasty sling, anything to avoid the unsupported offhand shot.

I almost never miss a deer. Before you blow me off, please listen to what I have to say about why: it's because I don't take the shots I can't hit. It's surely not because I can't think of a shot or two on animals I could have taken and maybe had it work out okay, or that I can't still be presented with tough shots, it's that I have too much respect for the process and the animal to just "wing it and hope for the best". It's not how I think this little part of the world should work.

Rant: off.

Here's the thing about offhand shooting: most of your midwestern hunters have unfortunately been shoehorned into learning to drive a rifled precision weapon in the same fashion that you would an upland shotgun: wings akimbo, arms outstretched with support hand well down the stock, leaning into the buttplate, head down on the gun, gun fully shouldered deep in the pocket, and elbows hanging out in the open.

Something to this effect has always worked well for wingshooting and other shotgunning of moving targets, and since that is in large part out 'marksmanship' heritage, that tends to be what's taught for ALL shooting.

Trouble is, it doesn't work worth a damn for offhand rifle shooting where you are trying to shoot a single shot into something the size of a grapefruit at 100 yards...or further.

It's extremely hard for me to try to teach you offhand through the internet. As such, I strongly recommend that if you really are committed to getting better on your feet, that you find a class by Revere or Appleseed, and attend fully. Go with an open mind, a closed mouth, and TRY what they teach about offhand, even though it may look and feel weird at first.

That said, I'm for a challenge, so here goes with some major tenets of shooting well on your feet:

Starting with empty hands, in a relaxed, feet-shoulder-width stance, in front of a mirror if you can, pick up the firearm for some drills, but hold it like a suitcase until you read this.

1) Get the rifle's weight over the arches of your feet as far as you are able. This requires an upright position, and probably a little back bend. The legs remain STRAIGHT, but not locked back; this will not change through this exercise.

2) Get the front support hand under the gun's center of gravity, and the forend centered across your flat palm, and right over the wrist bone structure; not out on the "pinky corner", or in on the meat of the thumb.

3) Get the forearm of the support arm VERTICAL, and the elbow/tricep DOWN against your ribs, or your hip if you're lucky. This is MAJOR. In the absence of specialized equipment with no place in the woods, it WILL require some tension in the obliques to maintain that elbow position, but keep that to the minimum possible.

4) The support arm muscles are now relaxed excepting only enough tension in the forearm and hand to keep the gun controlled firmly through recoil. The weight of the rifle platform is supported by the bones of the forearm, which is supported by the ribs/hib, which is supported by the large bones of your legs.

5) The trigger, or "strong" hand grasps the pistol grip firmly, but not in a death grip: if you'd mash a toilet paper roll, it's too much pressure, and the tension in you grip will affect your index finger's ability to execute good trigger mechanics.

6) Using the bicep of the strong arm--and ONLY the bicep (learn to isolate just that ONE muscle group on the ONE arm--pull the stock firmly into the shoulder, and as close to the neck as you can get without hurting your clavicle under recoil.

7) The stock's butt also needs to be placed as HIGH as at all possible in the shoulder without running the risk of losing the buttplate under recoil. It's a lot less "recoil lug" on your shoulder than you think you've needed, but do NOT put the heel of the stock above your clavicle. Doing so will surely result in an uglier face, sooner rather than later.

8) The trigger arm may not be relaxed to what feels like a "comfortable" angle above the right ribcage. It is "most" ideal for you to get that wing ALL the way down to the ribs, but that comes at the expense of the deltoid's ability to provide recoil stability (by being flexed), so find something that is a comfortable mid ground..it's usually about 30 to 45-degrees above vertical.

9) Only now are you allowed to drop your head onto the comb of the stock, and you should notice that unlike you HAD been shooting, the head is a lot more upright now....more like it'd be if you were just standing normally. This is a MAJOR goal.

10) ALL of the head's weight needs to be on the rifle, as it is the 4th of only FOUR points of contact with the gun. It's weight, relaxed onto the gun, helps provide lateral stability to the stock, as it presses the buttplate outward against the inward influence of your deltoid.

11) When you look at the rifle now, provided you have done what I asked with regards to relaxing your neck muscles, you will likely be looking at the rear of the receiver, the hammer, or the scope mounts. THAT is a problem that you must remedy with the rifle herself to be able to bring the rifle straight up into the position I've described, lower your head naturally and relaxed, and have the sighting system be RIGHT THERE. Use foam, tape, stock pads, 2x4s, thumbwheel adjusters...anything you can or have to to get the comb of that stock into the right position, so YOU DON'T ADAPT TO THE RIFLE; it adapts to YOU. If you are one of the lucky ones that has a stock that is too HIGH, then cut it down with chisels and rasps until it does what you need.

12) When it comes time to do so, place the center of the meat of the index finger's pad as squarely across the trigger blade as you can, but avoid all contact with the stock/trigger guard from the palm forward. Dragging wood with that trigger finger will send rounds where you don't intend, so it is to be avoided unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing, and can do it EXACTLY the same way from shot to shot.

13) Acquiring the sight picture you need, you should already have staged out (applied weight to the trigger face gradually) 90% of the force to break the trigger. The remaining 10% is all you need to hold as you finalize aim, and at the time that the remaining 10% is to be applied, it should be a ramped, gradual application of force, not a jerk like you're shooting skeet. Granted, this last 10% may only take 1/8 second or less to apply, but it needs to be a squeeze.

14) As the shell ignites and the sights disappear into a brief blur, maintain EVERY last bit of the position I just illustrated, recoil WITH the rifle into full recoil, and as you reach full recoil, you will be out of "blink", if you did at all. The first, and only, thing your eyes need to do is reacquire the sight picture as the gun drops back to horizontal, and as you reload the firearm if it is a repeater. As you execute the actions to reload if needed, do not take the liberty of relaxing all this position: do not move a body part that doesn't have to be moved to operate the firearm safely. Maintain a sight picture on the animal through the process if you are able to with your particular weapon.

15) Observing the hit animal, with a reloaded weapon, and a position that is once again ready for the fight, assess the situation, and apply additional rounds if needed. There's no sense in delay here: if for any reason, the animal is not on the ground rapidly expiring, and you have a good, clear, and safe shot, then send another round. You didn't buy that ammo to stare at it at home.


Once you have gotten this position hammered out, or gotten help with seeing what it should look and feel like, you need to firmly install the position and it's quick acquisition into your brain's subconscious. This is best done through dry fire in a safe environment (no live weapons, no ammo in the room). Dryfire in large amounts (100+ "shots" per day) is excellent at hammering out procedures that are proven to work, but it can be a double-edged sword: whatever you are drilling with the rifle that many repetitions per day will become HARDWIRED into your subconscious shot program. What I'm saying is: make damned sure you are doing it right every time. If it means fewer shots to keep a high level of focus, do fewer. If it means doing it late at night when the house is quiet and you can devote yourself to the task, then do it. What you CANNOT do is to halfass the thing and end up installing a mental program that is flawed, or inconsistent; under stress, you are only as good as you trained to be on your bad days. That's as true a cliche as there is.

My only sincere warning to you is that if you do all this: you become able to stand and hold a rifle on a ~3-4 MOA target... you install a subconscious shot routine that autopilots your cross hairs to the right impact point for your round... you train and train for the process from the decision of "shoot that thing" to "shot complete"...

...you can become so automatic and efficient that it can ruin the sanctity and the purity of the very thing you always thought you wanted; it is as irrevocable for a lifetime as a single shot is for that moment.


I promise you that.

-Nate

 

[winchester]

i like to use the sling to stabilze my shots when i dont have a rest. when i get it pulled tight with my elbow its as steady as it is with my walking/shooting stick

 

[Gluemanz28]

Holy Cow Nat!!!! I think you used up all the INGO ink on that one post.

 

[natdscott]

Gluemanz, I do have that tendency, at least when I find a question whose answer I have spent a lot of time and resources on knowing.

I used to cut out all the biggest bucks I could find in calendars and magazines, in all the photo angles I could find, and put them on the wall 10-15 feet away. I'd stand and execute perfect "shot" after perfect "shot" for hours on those paper deer. Even now, I'm far from the best target offhand shooter in the country, but I 'killed' so many deer in dry fire for so long that I barely even see a cross hair now before the muzzle flashes from a trigger I didn't have to tell to move. In some ways, it's unfortunate though, due to what I said in the last few sentences.

In combat, I understand that these skills I am badly butchering verbalization of are often the difference between who dies and who lives, because somebody has to fill both roles.

In the hunting woods, for most Americans at least, it is not that clear cut, so one is sometimes best to tread lightly with regards to what, exactly, they put in their subconscious. Some might want to, and some might never even dream of it, but either way, you usually can't take back what you put firmly put in there yourself.

-Nate

Edit: See, glue ^^^ ? I shook the cartridge, and there was a little more ink left at the bottom.

 

[Hookeye]

Having good gear that fits helps make shooting easier.
Unfortunately many folks still shoot junk.

Lots of BS still floating around out there in the deer hunting circles.

Wonder how many see through ring shotguns with reg field stocks will be brought the night before the gun opener, right at closing time, for boresighting.

The nonsense every year (see mismatched arrows the night before bow opener too, folks just now buying broadheads)..........it's amazing.

The cheapskates who should know better, the rednecks that are clueless.............I feel sorry for the deer.
Hell, that's even before I think about how p*sspoor of a shot they must be.

What kills me is................these clods usually have access to great land and attempts at nice bucks repeatedly.

There is no friggin' justice in this world.

 

[Hookeye]

Dunno if a valid test, but a 100 yard shot offhand on a deer.............if that's tough...........practice more, even from other positions.

I remember first testing of TC Super 16 at range. Golf balls on 75 yard bank. Even taking a knee it was a nervy deal, try it on 3rd pass kinda thing.

Added weight to G2 forend, cheekriser to stock. Boring for offhand now.

Night and day difference.

 

[Hookeye]

Deer season brings out the worst of stupid.

IN being a mostly rimfire and shotgun hunting thing for years (for many) might have something to do with the problem.
But then maybe there's something in the water.

Even folks with decent bank accounts.......some engineers I worked with................clueless.

The poor saps working the gunshops the week of (esp night before) the gun opener.....Pope should have put you up for Sainthood.

 

[Hookeye]

On that offhand thing..........sometimes use a sling, sometimes not.
I've even put my elbow on my hipbone for a few, shot off my fingertips.
But then when still hunting I just do what I have to do. Sometimes kneel, have dropped into sitting.
Really don't think about it. Critter tells me what I have to do.

Never shoot at a deer.

I don't understand that mentality.

You shoot what you know you will hit............not the deer, the spot on the deer.

"Hoping" to land a bullet or arrow in a deer is the sport of fools.

Noble creature............deserves a proper shooter.

I wonder how many who take such a casual attitude to hunting deer...........how good they are at their jobs, or parenting or other.

 

[Hookeye]

Outside of being and a stand and using the advice that AboveTheBest posted, you could take a kneeling stance or brace up against a tree in a standing position.

View attachment 41871
View attachment 41870

Or you could be totally badass like Major Henry Fulton.
View attachment 41872

When I was lugging my Super 14 TC in .35 Rem I was hoping something would pop out on yonder field edge. Was set up on other side of brushpile, fully intent on going Creedmoor and dropping one.

Alas, nothing ever popped up (only hunted it twice- buddy did take a 10 pt from that brushpile w shotgun............while I was at work.........close too).
Figures

 

[JettaKnight]

No one's mentioned Appleseed training yet?

 

[Ruffnek]

natdscott did in his novel.

 

[natdscott]

natdscott did in his novel.

Come on. That was a novella at most.

But seriously. Have you ever tried to teach somebody Offhand through the phone or internet? It sounds like this OP needs real help, and he/she was big enough to ask, so I tried my best to give what I know.

Ruffnek, since you are online now, and you are the second person that has commented on the length of my reply, I'll ask you: Is there a problem with my post?

-Nate

 

[Hookeye]

moved