I'm not politicizing or even Monday morning QBing. I'm just at a loss and didn't know what to really say, besides RIP. I just lost a really good friend from law school yesterday to colon cancer and he was at least 10 years younger than me. I guess we all die from something.
-
Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
Suspect dead after two deputies were shot serving search warrant in Russiaville
- Thread starter KellyinAvon
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana
Member Benefits:
Fewer Ads! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
I'm not politicizing or even Monday morning QBing. I'm just at a loss and didn't know what to really say, besides RIP. I just lost a really good friend from law school yesterday to colon cancer and he was at least 10 years younger than me. I guess we all die from something.
Really?
other dave
Shooter
I will do the best I can. But if you go to Facebook and search "Kokomo Scanner" you may get better real time results.
Sorry, but I wasn't sure and wanted to make it clear that I wasn't in any way trying to stir the pot.
As far as the TTP's LE agencies are using, I'm sure institutions of higher learning and large departments are constantly evaluating best practices. What I'm also sure of is what INGO or any other non-LE organization thinks about how they go about their job means very little to them.Our best efforts are in consoling the families, and holding those who make the laws accountable for keeping officer safety in mind when they write their bills.This freakin sucks. Prayers to the families, and RIP Depury Koontz. Your efforts have made the world a better place, but for one thing: we no longer have you.
First, my condolences to the Koontz family in particular.
The second thing is that it bears mention that Deputy Koontz died as a result of a severed femoral artery, meaning that he was shot in the leg.
That dispels one of the favorite falliacies that emerge from Hollyweird that shooting people in the legs is a way to wound without being lethal.
There's only one artery in the entire human body that's bigger, and that's the aorta, the big manifold attached directly to the top of the heart itself.
It's a real pity that there's no practical body armor that protects the legs without greatly hindering the person wearing it.
The second thing is that it bears mention that Deputy Koontz died as a result of a severed femoral artery, meaning that he was shot in the leg.
That dispels one of the favorite falliacies that emerge from Hollyweird that shooting people in the legs is a way to wound without being lethal.
There's only one artery in the entire human body that's bigger, and that's the aorta, the big manifold attached directly to the top of the heart itself.
It's a real pity that there's no practical body armor that protects the legs without greatly hindering the person wearing it.
Both worth quoting in case someone doesn't read the entire thread.
I opened this thread thinking INGO members would be furious that someone used a firearm in an irresponsible, illegal, and unethical event that claimed the life of a Sheriff's Deputy. I was kind of surprised to see people trying to put blame on the Deputy for not scheduling his warrant service with the fugitive at their convenience? C'mon guys.
Sadly, your surprise about some of the classless comments can be attributed to being new here.
There are some here who troll, some who actually believe their own nonsense, and a few who take a sick delight in indulging in both at the same time.
Spear Dane
Grandmaster
I honestly do not know how you find what I said offensive, especially when I'm sitting there saying straight up "YOUR LIFE IS WORTH MORE THAN A PIECE OF PLASTIC!" If you do not think your life is worth more than that, well I would love to hear the explanation. I would love to hear that this man died for something more than a syringe. I genuinely want to know why this warrant for a silly syringe was worth this kids life!
Edit: Never mind, I think I get it now. I've spent most of my day (Yeah, been up about 24hrs now.) thinking about and dealing with this. As I said before, my niece knew these two men, her dad is a HCSO deputy and was there later in different capacity. She was DISTRAUGHT. Anything that gets her this upset...well it upsets me too and I wanted answers. So anyone that thought I was anything other then genuinely searching for same (like politicizing or being 'asinine') can suck it.
What I remembered is LE is not called a job. It's The Job. And, as I and probably everyone else here was taught (I hope) a job worth doing is worth doing right and with 100% effort. That is what those guys were doing and this I comprehend. I'm still glad the idiot that shot at them is dead though. Saved us a lot of money.
Last edited:
Spear Dane
Grandmaster
FIFY. And no I didn't. Hence my quest for answers. Which I now have.
- Jan 12, 2012
- 27,286
- 113
OK, it looks like it is about time to take the bull by the horns...
The first problem I see so far as friction among members is concerned is that we have several issues united by and only by their connection to a specific incident and otherwise exist independent of each other.
We start with the fact that an officer is dead leaving behind him a young family including a very young child who will grow up without a father. Regardless of circumstance, this is a multilayered tragedy that should not require further commentary.
Second, we have questions of the wisdom of why he was doing what he was doing regardless of timing and methods employed. Putting forth the opinion that the decision on the part of whomever made it to send this man into harm's way over a syringe is dumber than a bucket of manure in no way diminishes anything regarding the tragic nature of his death. You may or may not agree with that opinion, but that doesn't justify dropping this 'dead cop' card which in some circles has become the new race card, especially when it is used to deflect honest discussion of an administrative decision that is not really relevant to the deceased officer other than that he is the one who happened to have been ordered to carry out the decision in question.
Third, we have had questions raised regarding the wisdom of dead of the night warrant service, knock and announce or otherwise. Most important, again, this exists completely independent of the tragic nature of the death of the officer involved in the situation, and that death should not be used as a magic talisman to shield the decision makers from accountability for the quality of their decisions.
Fourth, it was mentioned upthread that those involved in the decision-making process most likely don't care what any non-LEOs have to say about it. In an ostensibly free society, that is a major problem as it is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. If you can't see the problem with that, you need to spend hard time in remedial civics class--and, once again, hiding problem issues behind a dead young officer is politicizing the death just as much as dancing in innocent blood is doing so.
My take on it from the information available is that a life was cut prematurely short and a young family left shattered because an officer encountered an individual whose death is most likely an improvement to the community as a result of being send on a fool's errand by people who never get out from behind their desks over one of the most stupid reasons I have heard in quite a long time. Now, if we indulge the chronic INGO speculation that 'there's more to the story', then we have introduced the notion that the warrant named one item they expected to find and/or could demonstrate probable cause to believe present as a vehicle to go on what would otherwise be a prohibited fishing expedition, which opens another set of problem issues appropriate for another time.
Now, my recommendation is that we pause to honor a loss to the community (and, given that all Sheriff's Departments operated under the auspices of the State of Indiana, 'community' includes all of us), and then take an honest look as what happened such as to prevent it from happening again.
Last, and most important: I wish a young widow and a young child the best as they deal with a truly devastating situation imposed on them by circumstances beyond their control after which their lives will never be the same.
The first problem I see so far as friction among members is concerned is that we have several issues united by and only by their connection to a specific incident and otherwise exist independent of each other.
We start with the fact that an officer is dead leaving behind him a young family including a very young child who will grow up without a father. Regardless of circumstance, this is a multilayered tragedy that should not require further commentary.
Second, we have questions of the wisdom of why he was doing what he was doing regardless of timing and methods employed. Putting forth the opinion that the decision on the part of whomever made it to send this man into harm's way over a syringe is dumber than a bucket of manure in no way diminishes anything regarding the tragic nature of his death. You may or may not agree with that opinion, but that doesn't justify dropping this 'dead cop' card which in some circles has become the new race card, especially when it is used to deflect honest discussion of an administrative decision that is not really relevant to the deceased officer other than that he is the one who happened to have been ordered to carry out the decision in question.
Third, we have had questions raised regarding the wisdom of dead of the night warrant service, knock and announce or otherwise. Most important, again, this exists completely independent of the tragic nature of the death of the officer involved in the situation, and that death should not be used as a magic talisman to shield the decision makers from accountability for the quality of their decisions.
Fourth, it was mentioned upthread that those involved in the decision-making process most likely don't care what any non-LEOs have to say about it. In an ostensibly free society, that is a major problem as it is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. If you can't see the problem with that, you need to spend hard time in remedial civics class--and, once again, hiding problem issues behind a dead young officer is politicizing the death just as much as dancing in innocent blood is doing so.
My take on it from the information available is that a life was cut prematurely short and a young family left shattered because an officer encountered an individual whose death is most likely an improvement to the community as a result of being send on a fool's errand by people who never get out from behind their desks over one of the most stupid reasons I have heard in quite a long time. Now, if we indulge the chronic INGO speculation that 'there's more to the story', then we have introduced the notion that the warrant named one item they expected to find and/or could demonstrate probable cause to believe present as a vehicle to go on what would otherwise be a prohibited fishing expedition, which opens another set of problem issues appropriate for another time.
Now, my recommendation is that we pause to honor a loss to the community (and, given that all Sheriff's Departments operated under the auspices of the State of Indiana, 'community' includes all of us), and then take an honest look as what happened such as to prevent it from happening again.
Last, and most important: I wish a young widow and a young child the best as they deal with a truly devastating situation imposed on them by circumstances beyond their control after which their lives will never be the same.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to IndyDave1776 again.
I honestly do not know how you find what I said offensive, especially when I'm sitting there saying straight up "YOUR LIFE IS WORTH MORE THAN A PIECE OF PLASTIC!" If you do not think your life is worth more than that, well I would love to hear the explanation. I would love to hear that this man died for something more than a syringe. I genuinely want to know why this warrant for a silly syringe was worth this kids life!
Edit: Never mind, I think I get it now. I've spent most of my day (Yeah, been up about 24hrs now.) thinking about and dealing with this. As I said before, my niece knew these two men, her dad is a HCSO deputy and was there later in different capacity. She was DISTRAUGHT. Anything that gets her this upset...well it upsets me too and I wanted answers. So anyone that thought I was anything other then genuinely searching for same (like politicizing or being 'asinine') can suck it.
What I remembered is LE is not called a job. It's The Job. And, as I and probably everyone else here was taught (I hope) a job worth doing is worth doing right and with 100% effort. That is what those guys were doing and this I comprehend. I'm still glad the idiot that shot at them is dead though. Saved us a lot of money.
You don't get it and you are being asinine, because you are talking about a syringe and NOT murder. There is no acceptable murder of law enforcement doing the job they swore to do.
It is unacceptable for the community the wantan murder of those who that have sworn to protect and strive to serve their fellow man. Weather it's a speeding ticket or taking down cartel assassins there are no acceptable losses.
This is what we are mourning. This is the man behind the badge.
Say what you will, he was doing his job, it isn't our place to second guess his job.
He was more than son, husband, father. This news story brought tears to my eyes.
Man behind the badge: Community mourns the loss of Deputy Carl Koontz | Fox 59
Say what you will, he was doing his job, it isn't our place to second guess his job.
He was more than son, husband, father. This news story brought tears to my eyes.
Man behind the badge: Community mourns the loss of Deputy Carl Koontz | Fox 59
I just don't understand our community sometimes. Some people laugh at funerals, while it takes some weeks to get over obvious depression, but they are both mourning. In this case, yeah, I didn't read the entire thread and saw the subject of my comment had already caused disturbance. I mourn for the officer's life no more or less than anyone else. I was merely searching for some semblance of understanding, even though I understand there is none. Those who believe they've cornered the market on anger and sadness, please allow others to express theirs in their own way. We all ALL on the same side and mostly angry that criminals take the lives of innocent people. Please don't make this a place where everything has to be argued, even when there is no reason. We all mourn in our own way and tears and frustration cannot be seen over typed words.
I put +10 in the pile for both of us.
The wondering and rambling in this thread is disturbing.
I understand some of it but the trolling on this issue is not cool.
Site Supporter
Staff online
-
mom45Momerator -
KellyinAvonBlue-ID Mafia Consigliere
Members online
- TJ Kackowski
- Jim5528
- abraham743
- 4sarge
- Magyars
- nobletucky
- OneBadV8
- bocefus78
- POG_88
- mom45
- DoggyDaddy
- EODFXSTI
- AndreusMaximus
- Etcatt
- Hinkle
- oldfish15
- snowwalker
- Snapdragon
- tge45
- Longhair
- Cavman
- Wilhunt4fd
- rdbs505
- Lost Californian
- DJM95B
- ibbob
- KellyinAvon
- A. Ramon
- Redd55
- BeDome
- 22LRFan
- GarrisonsGuns
- KLB
- Brandon
- rkweber
- 76caprice
- KG1
- jrbarnes
- 812 rimfire
- SAILORGOLF46
- gottabeoutdoors
- m82mike
- sp3worker
- Bosshoss
- Bugzilla
- Talkinghalls
- glock27
- JTL165
- bigz82
- thunderchicken