Surrounded by cops today

[Regionnus Rattis]

I'll just watch the thread and not say anything so as not to get it misconstrued....

 

[MinuteMan47]

Well don't get your panties twisted.

Let's just say you can't lie. You can keep your mouth shut.

I twist a lot of panties.


References available upon request.

 

[thompal]

Im more worried about having my rights violated by other Americans than the police.

Except, citizens can't violate your rights. They can commit a crime against you: they can steal your stuff, or physically attack you, but they are just crimes.

Only governments and government agents can violate your rights. They can commit the same crimes against you, but sometimes they are called other things. If a citizens breaks in your house and looks through all of your stuff, and steals some things, he has not "violated your rights." He has committed several crimes against you, and had you been home, you would have been well within your rights to defend your home against him.

If government agents break in your home (without the proper court documents), look through all of your stuff, and steal some things, they have violated your rights (which is a different crime), IN ADDITION to the crimes of theft, breaking & entering (or whatever it's called), etc.

Also, I'd say your fear is someone unfounded anyway. From news reports in the past few days, I'd say that there's a higher percentage of criminal activity among police officers as a group than there is among the citizens.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I twist a lot of panties.


References available upon request.

pics on request too?

 

[thompal]

The police in this town are getting a horrible name. This situation only makes you wonder why some of them want to become cops in the first place.

Part of it was Clinton's "Troops to Cops" program. Nobody ever seemed to stop and think that what makes an excellent soldier might make a REALLY bad cop, because they are two totally different jobs, the ONLY thing in common is that they carry firearms and wear a uniform. So, you get soldiers coming out of the army and can't find a good job anywhere. They find the troops to cops program which offered them a lot of incentives to join a police force, and viola!! As these guys rise up through the ranks, the changes they may think are needed or normal (and would be in an infantry unit) make their was to the streets. Instead of police uniforms and leather belts, we see black BDUs, tactical web gear, and 'high and tight' haircuts. Instead of 'officer friendly,' we get refusal to shake hands. It acts, and looks, less like a police force made up of the citizens, and MORE like a military unit CONTROLLING the citizens.



It's takes a particular attitude to be a good police officer, and that particular attitude would NOT be a good one for an 11B to have.

 

[thompal]

I must of missed it. Did she advise them that there was no robbery? If so, then I stand corrected. The cops were in the wrong.

I think we can assume that the cops verified that there was no robbery.

If they didn't, then their actions are even more moronic than ever. If they still think there is an armed robbery happening in the front of an open place of business, then WHY would they have 9 or so cops behind the building for a period of time with no concern about what was happening in the business. If they thought an armed robbery was going on in the front of the business, do you think they would have been better advised to take positions of cover and cover the exit from that business because there might be an armed robber bursting out any second? Or, should they just stand around and disarm repairmen?

They either thought an armed robbery was going on inside the business or they didn't. If they did not think an armed robbery was in progress, then their actions were merely tyrannical. If they DID think that an armed robbery was happening, then their actions were moronic, tactically unsound, and stupid (and tyrannical).

Which do you think it was?

 

[ihateiraq]

...I stated how that may be but my rights were still taken from me, even for only twenty minutes...
..I said, " I would rather be a dead man than not have the rights we are supposed to have in this country"...

why didnt you put your money where your mouth is then and make your stand?

 

[E5RANGER375]

why didnt you put your money where your mouth is then and make your stand?

thats true. I personaly would'nt have told or gave them crap, and I guess id either be going to jail, or continue working. theres no compromising on this for me. i dont care what their WRONG policy states. get it fixed. I'll gladly be the test case if fate makes it happen.

 

[dross]

Part of it was Clinton's "Troops to Cops" program. Nobody ever seemed to stop and think that what makes an excellent soldier might make a REALLY bad cop, because they are two totally different jobs, the ONLY thing in common is that they carry firearms and wear a uniform. So, you get soldiers coming out of the army and can't find a good job anywhere. They find the troops to cops program which offered them a lot of incentives to join a police force, and viola!! As these guys rise up through the ranks, the changes they may think are needed or normal (and would be in an infantry unit) make their was to the streets. Instead of police uniforms and leather belts, we see black BDUs, tactical web gear, and 'high and tight' haircuts. Instead of 'officer friendly,' we get refusal to shake hands. It acts, and looks, less like a police force made up of the citizens, and MORE like a military unit CONTROLLING the citizens.



It's takes a particular attitude to be a good police officer, and that particular attitude would NOT be a good one for an 11B to have.

Pure, unsupported, conjecture. Your position is that people from the military entering the police department, specifically from the troops to cops program is what has caused changes in the police department from more SWAT teams to not shaking hands?

Back up your assertion.

1. How many cops entered through that program?
2. Are there more cops now with military backgrounds than there were before?
3. Are the cops with military backgrounds the ones exhibiting these particular behaviors?

Ex-soldiers go on to every walk of life, and have for a very long time in this country. My personal experience is that people who are good soldiers tend to be pretty good at whatever they do when they get out.

 

[MinuteMan47]

Pure, unsupported, conjecture. Your position is that people from the military entering the police department, specifically from the troops to cops program is what has caused changes in the police department from more SWAT teams to not shaking hands?

Back up your assertion.

1. How many cops entered through that program?
2. Are there more cops now with military backgrounds than there were before?
3. Are the cops with military backgrounds the ones exhibiting these particular behaviors?

Ex-soldiers go on to every walk of life, and have for a very long time in this country. My personal experience is that people who are good soldiers tend to be pretty good at whatever they do when they get out.

Dross,

While I agree it is hard to pinpoint the actual FACTS and numbers here. I think there is one thing we can be sure of... and that is there has been a "recruitment" of former military into LEO roles.

 

[dross]

Dross,

While I agree it is hard to pinpoint the actual FACTS and numbers here. I think there is one thing we can be sure of... and that is there has been a "recruitment" of former military into LEO roles.

Okay. Cops have always had a high percentage of ex military, though.

It's a big leap to make the assumption that there are significantly more now, AND that that is the cause of some specific changes in organizational culture.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Dross,

While I agree it is hard to pinpoint the actual FACTS and numbers here. I think there is one thing we can be sure of... and that is there has been a "recruitment" of former military into LEO roles.

personaly its my experience as told by my buddies who tried to or were successful in getting a LE career, that a lot of police departments dont give former military a fair shake. but neither does the private sector, so whats new.

 

[ihateiraq]

Dross,

While I agree it is hard to pinpoint the actual FACTS and numbers here. I think there is one thing we can be sure of... and that is there has been a "recruitment" of former military into LEO roles.

why not? people come out of the military in shape, proficient with firearms, able to think on their toes, and have the ability to follow orders/instructions.

 

[MinuteMan47]

why not? people come out of the military in shape, proficient with firearms, able to think on their toes, and have the ability to follow orders/instructions.

I agree. Those are all positive. It is the military "tactics" used that I worry about.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I agree. Those are all positive. It is the military "tactics" used that I worry about.

i wouldnt question their training or restraint at first. the first thing i would question is why did they join the military and for how long were they in? people who only served for college dont impress me, at first.

 

[ihateiraq]

I agree. Those are all positive. It is the military "tactics" used that I worry about.

i think evolution of the criminal/society in general has changed police tactics more than any influx of military personnel.

 

[dross]

personaly its my experience as told by my buddies who tried to or were successful in getting a LE career, that a lot of police departments dont give former military a fair shake. but neither does the private sector, so whats new.

When I got out in '93, I checked into one of those programs, but this one was supposed to fast track ex-soldiers into teaching. It was all smoke and mirrors. There was no fast track whatsoever, all requirements were the same, there were no actual hiring incentives, it was a program in name only.

I agree. Those are all positive. It is the military "tactics" used that I worry about.

I was in the 82nd Abn in the early 80s. I changed my MOS and became an electronic technician on a guided air defense missile system. I had to learn new ways of doing my job. I was in charge of other technicians instead of paratroopers. Completely different leadership styles and techniques. After I got out, I worked in a sales oriented field.

All of these require completely different skill sets. It boggles my mind that someone could think that a cop who is ex military is suddenly going to go Rambo and what, have an Iraq flashback? Rules of engagement change all the time in a combat zone, and a soldier adjusts. He might be going on missions to kill folks one day, and guarding civilians the next. Next year he could be working in an admin situation, or be selected to be a recruiter. All of these require different skill sets.

It's called "learning" and military folks are particularly good at it.

 

[ihateiraq]

When I got out in '93, I checked into one of those programs, but this one was supposed to fast track ex-soldiers into teaching. It was all smoke and mirrors. There was no fast track whatsoever, all requirements were the same, there were no actual hiring incentives, it was a program in name only.



I was in the 82nd Abn in the early 80s. I changed my MOS and became an electronic technician on a guided air defense missile system. I had to learn new ways of doing my job. I was in charge of other technicians instead of paratroopers. Completely different leadership styles and techniques. After I got out, I worked in a sales oriented field.

All of these require completely different skill sets. It boggles my mind that someone could think that a cop who is ex military is suddenly going to go Rambo and what, have an Iraq flashback? Rules of engagement change all the time in a combat zone, and a soldier adjusts. He might be going on missions to kill folks one day, and guarding civilians the next. Next year he could be working in an admin situation, or be selected to be a recruiter. All of these require different skill sets.

It's called "learning" and military folks are particularly good at it.

out of rep, so you get a instead.

"I was in the 82nd Abn..." will net you .

 

[Eddie]

why not? people come out of the military in shape, proficient with firearms, able to think on their toes, and have the ability to follow orders/instructions.

I worked with veterans of the Korean War, Vietnam Conflict and the first Gulf War right alongside former military guys who had never seen action, college grads, college drop outs and a few local guys whose close relatives had the political tiess to get them the jobs without any other qualifications. Most were good cops.

There are a lot of different aspects to police work and different people are good at different things. The guy you pick to be the first one through the door when serving a felony warrant may not be the one you that you send to interview the victim in a rape case. You need people with computer skills and you need people that can spot the drug dealer on the street corner.

The start of most police interview processes is to weed out the people who can't physically do the job or who have past criminal records that would keep them out of police work. Soldiers tend to be able to make it through these early stages so they have a leg up in the hiring process.

 

[MinuteMan47]

I was in the 82nd Abn in the early 80s. I changed my MOS and became an electronic technician on a guided air defense missile system. I had to learn new ways of doing my job. I was in charge of other technicians instead of paratroopers. Completely different leadership styles and techniques. After I got out, I worked in a sales oriented field.

All of these require completely different skill sets. It boggles my mind that someone could think that a cop who is ex military is suddenly going to go Rambo and what, have an Iraq flashback? Rules of engagement change all the time in a combat zone, and a soldier adjusts. He might be going on missions to kill folks one day, and guarding civilians the next. Next year he could be working in an admin situation, or be selected to be a recruiter. All of these require different skill sets.

It's called "learning" and military folks are particularly good at it.

Understood. I appreciate the insight as I HAVE NOT been there, done that. This brings a much clearer picture to my mind, and I see what you are saying.