stolen gun recovered 23 years later

[bassplayrguy]

When did pawn shops become exempt from charges for possession of stolen property ?

Seem that would be my question to LEO?

^^^^THIS.
If I am caught with stolen property, it doesn't matter how I got it. I go to jail. But if the pawns my stolen property, the pawn shop is immune from prosecution and I have to pay for my own property???? God bless America.

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

I am guessing that is why most (I think) states' code requires that in order to be guilty of buying or posessing stolen property, the person who bought the stolen property knew or should have known that it was stolen at the time of purchase.

 

[Hotdoger]

I am guessing that is why most (I think) states' code requires that in order to be guilty of buying or posessing stolen property, the person who bought the stolen property knew or should have known that it was stolen at the time of purchase.

IC 35-43-4-1
Definitions
Sec. 1. (a) As used in this chapter, "exert control over property" means to obtain, take, carry, drive, lead away, conceal, abandon, sell, convey, encumber, or possess property, or to secure, transfer, or extend a right to property.
(b) Under this chapter, a person's control over property of another person is "unauthorized" if it is exerted:
(1) without the other person's consent;
(2) in a manner or to an extent other than that to which the other person has consented;
(3) by transferring or encumbering other property while failing to disclose a lien, adverse claim, or other legal impediment to the enjoyment of that other property;
(4) by creating or confirming a false impression in the other person;
(5) by failing to correct a false impression that the person knows is influencing the other person, if the person stands in a relationship of special trust to the other person;
(6) by promising performance that the person knows will not be performed;
(7) by expressing an intention to damage the property or impair the rights of any other person; or
(8) by transferring or reproducing:
(A) recorded sounds; or
(B) a live performance; without consent of the owner of the master recording or the live performance, with intent to distribute the reproductions for a profit.
(c) As used in this chapter, "receiving" means acquiring possession or control of or title to property, or lending on the security of property.
As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.3. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.44; Acts 1979, P.L.300, SEC.1; P.L.180-1991, SEC.7.

<A name=IC35-43-4-2>IC 35-43-4-2
Theft; receiving stolen property
Sec. 2. (a) A person who knowingly or intentionally exerts unauthorized control over property of another person, with intent to deprive the other person of any part of its value or use, commits theft, a Class D felony. However, the offense is a Class C felony if:
(1) the fair market value of the property is at least one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000); or
(2) the property that is the subject of the theft is a valuable metal (as defined in IC 25-37.5-1-1) and:
(A) relates to transportation safety;
(B) relates to public safety; or
(C) is taken from a:
(i) hospital or other health care facility;
(ii) telecommunications provider;
(iii) public utility (as defined in IC 32-24-1-5.9(a)); or
(iv) key facility;
and the absence of the property creates a substantial risk of bodily injury to a person.
(b) A person who knowingly or intentionally receives, retains, or disposes of the property of another person that has been the subject of theft commits receiving stolen property, a Class D felony. However, the offense is a Class C felony if:
(1) the fair market value of the property is at least one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000); or
(2) the property that is the subject of the theft is a valuable metal (as defined in IC 25-37.5-1-1) and:
(A) relates to transportation safety;
(B) relates to public safety; or
(C) is taken from a:
(i) hospital or other health care facility;
(ii) telecommunications provider;
(iii) public utility (as defined in IC 32-24-1-5.9(a)); or
(iv) key facility;
and the absence of the property creates a substantial risk of bodily injury to a person.
As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.3. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.45; Acts 1979, P.L.300, SEC.2; P.L.320-1985, SEC.1; P.L.158-2009, SEC.8.

Seems to me there is no exemption for the Pawn shop to hold the known "stolen property".

 

[Hotdoger]

IC 35-43-4-5
Defenses
Sec. 5. (a) An owner in possession of encumbered property does not commit a crime under this chapter, as against a person having only a security interest in the property, by removing or otherwise dealing with the property contrary to the terms of the security agreement, even if title is in the credit institution under a mortgage, conditional sales contract, or bailment lease.
(b) It is a defense under this chapter if a maker or drawer:
(1) who has an account in a credit institution but does not have sufficient funds in that account; and
(2) who makes, draws, or utters a check, draft, or order for payment on the credit institution;
pays the credit institution the amount due, together with protest fees, within ten (10) days after receiving notice that the check, draft, or order has not been paid by the credit institution. Notice sent to either (i) the address printed or written on the check, draft, or order or (ii) the address given in writing to the recipient at the time the check, draft, or order was issued or delivered constitutes notice that the check, draft, or order has not been paid by the credit institution.
(c) A person who transfers or reproduces recorded sounds in connection with a broadcast or telecast, or for archival purposes, does not commit a crime under this chapter, even if he does not have the consent of the owner of the master recording.
(d) A person who receives, retains, or disposes of personal property that has been the subject of theft with the purpose of restoring it to the owner, does not commit a crime under this chapter.
As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.3. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.48; Acts 1979, P.L.300, SEC.3; P.L.323-1985, SEC.1.

.

 

[Bradsknives]

Seems to me there is no exemption for the Pawn shop to hold the known "stolen property".

"Known" is the key word. No pawnbroker would take an item if he/she knows it is stolen.

When the pledger (Seller) signs the pawn or sell ticket he/she is basically stating that the item listed on the ticket is their property and is not stolen.

 

[Hotdoger]

"Known" is the key word. No pawnbroker would take an item if he/she knows it is stolen.

When the pledger (Seller) signs the pawn or sell ticket he/she is basically stating that the item listed on the ticket is their property and is not stolen.

The OPs post is about a pawned gun that is now known stolen property, in the possession of a pawnbroker. The conditions of the pawn broker receiving it doesn't matter now. That tranaction had nothing to do with the theft victim.

If you find out you are in possession of know stolen property do you not think the person that it was stolen from does not deserve it back?

 

[serpicostraight]

the detective said normally the courts give the property to the original owner(me) and just tell the pawnshops thats the price of doing business. she also said that most of the time the pawnshop doesnt show for the hearing and i win. im hoping thats how it goes this time. i would hate to have buy that gun again. but i would just to keep it around and tell guests the story of the gun recovered 23 years later. im still shocked at getting it back. if i do.

 

[Bradsknives]

The OPs post is about a pawned gun that is now known stolen property, in the possession of a pawnbroker. The conditions of the pawn broker receiving it doesn't matter now. That tranaction had nothing to do with the theft victim.

If you find out you are in possession of know stolen property do you not think the person that it was stolen from does not deserve it back?

Absolutely, the owner should get his gun back, that's not my argument. It was questioned why pawn shops can't be charged with buying stolen property and I have addressed that issue from my 15 years of experience in the pawnbroking business. I'm not up to speed on AZ pawnbroking laws, but apparently like several other states it is required (state pawnbroking laws) that owner has to pay the pawnbroker back the money he/she put out for the item. I personally don't agree with that law and believe the owner should be able to get his item back with out any further financial burden. Fortunately here in Indiana we don't have that law/requirement, a person can get his item back with out having to pay the pawnbroker back his money.

 

[96firephoenix]

uhh... it was stolen. guns are good. they received it. they received stolen goods... isn't that a crime?

why are they asking for money?

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

Seems to me there is no exemption for the Pawn shop to hold the known "stolen property".

I think the OP's gun was recovered in AZ if I read it right. I assumed "Phx" was Phoenix. IC is no good there.

 

[serpicostraight]

got a call today from the girl that sets up the interviews. told her i needed to do mine by phone since i didnt live there now. she said it was no problem and she would set it up. while we was on the phone i noticed my name the name of the pawnshop and a third name on the paperwork all claiming my gun. i asked her who the third name was and she said it was the guy who sold my gun to the pawnshop. from what she said they have all his info. she also said chances of him showing up in court is slim to none. but the way it looks now if he doesnt show hes good to go. im still confused on this whole thing.

 

[Lucas156]

Wow so he is trying to claim the weapon is his and he is the one who sold it to the pawnshop? Isn't he afraid of incriminating himself?

 

[serpicostraight]

Wow so he is trying to claim the weapon is his and he is the one who sold it to the pawnshop? Isn't he afraid of incriminating himself?

they have all his info so they already know for a fact that he sold it to pawnshop. the interesting part will be if he shows up for the hearing and his story on where he got it. after this many years its hard telling where all it has been. but if that gun could talk i would love to hear the story.

 

[Hawkeye]

DO you have to travel to Pheonix for the hearing?

 

[serpicostraight]

DO you have to travel to Pheonix for the hearing?

no i can do mine on the phone.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I would say that I'm surprised that not a single post has been used to cite this particular LEO's work in finding the owner of a gun that's been missing for 20+ years, finding the original owner, and not sending it to be destroyed. After all the stories about police taking guns here's an example of one giving a gun back. But, I'm not surprised.

+1 to the detective

 

[serpicostraight]

I would say that I'm surprised that not a single post has been used to cite this particular LEO's work in finding the owner of a gun that's been missing for 20+ years, finding the original owner, and not sending it to be destroyed. After all the stories about police taking guns here's an example of one giving a gun back. But, I'm not surprised.

+1 to the detective

actually as cool as it would sound the detective did not use her sherlock holmes super detective ability to crack the case. the pawnshop called the numbers in and they said yup its stolen. but im still thankful to that brave soul on the phone who found my stolen gun. im calling the chief that person deserves a medal. she tried to give it back to my dad at first. but he told her it was mine. but she did do a good job by getting it back to me. i hope. i havent got it yet. thx detective gun finder

 

[serpicostraight]

had the hearing this morning. the pawnshop and the guy that sold my gun to them was both no shows. the judge said i get it back but now they are saying it takes 20 days to do the paperwork to release it. so i guess i get it back but i dont actually have it yet.

 

[singlestacksig]

it still makes a good story..

 

[Dr.Midnight]

Will they ship your gun to you, or will they be jerks and say, "you can pick it up at any time."?

I hope you post pictures when/if you finally get it back. I'm really curious about what this gun looks like.