Step by Step Guide: How to Steal, Lie, and Get Off the Hook.

[phylodog]

It is a wonder anyone looks at LEO with any respect anymore. I do not want to lump all into one basket but please, take out the trash.

Pretty ****ing obvious hanging around this place that very few do, no?

The one who sits around naked in a truck, touching himself and searching for anything LE related to post is just butt hurt that he wasn't good enough to get a job in this profession. His biggest fans probably have entertaining stories as well but at least they're smart enough to keep them a secret.

 

[churchmouse]

Pretty ****ing obvious hanging around this place that very few do, no?

The one who sits around naked in a truck, touching himself and searching for anything LE related to post is just butt hurt that he wasn't good enough to get a job in this profession. His biggest fans probably have entertaining stories as well but at least they're smart enough to keep them a secret.

No slam on you sir. It is hard not to lump when so many have caused issue.
I have said and will repeat, many fine LEO in these threads.

 

[phylodog]

No slam on you sir. It is hard not to lump when so many have caused issue.
I have said and will repeat, many fine LEO in these threads.

I'm beyond giving a **** at this point, no hard feeling on this end.

 

[buckwacker]

Pretty ****ing obvious hanging around this place that very few do, no?

The one who sits around naked in a truck, touching himself and searching for anything LE related to post is just butt hurt that he wasn't good enough to get a job in this profession. His biggest fans probably have entertaining stories as well but at least they're smart enough to keep them a secret.

Responses like this certainly dont help your case.

 

[churchmouse]

Responses like this certainly dont help your case.

Opinions aside, I think he is one of the good guys judging from his posts.
This is my humble opinion.

 

[phylodog]

Responses like this certainly dont help your case.

I can see that, the truth and reality has very little to do with these threads. Sorry to toss a hand grenade into the room.

 

[buckwacker]

Opinions aside, I think he is one of the good guys judging from his posts.
This is my humble opinion.

I am pretty new here, but from what I have seen of his posts I would agree with you. I am just saying the response certainly doesnt help. We need good LEOs with courage to stand up and speak out when things like this happen. The problem is that all I ever hear, even from the good ones, is
"dont paint us all with the same brush." If they dont want painted with the big brush, they need to grow a pair and work like hell to clean up their departments no matter what the rest of the "boys" think of them.

 

[churchmouse]

I am pretty new here, but from what I have seen of his posts I would agree with you. I am just saying the response certainly doesnt help. We need good LEOs with courage to stand up and speak out when things like this happen. The problem is that all I ever hear, even from the good ones, is
"dont paint us all with the same brush." If they dont want painted with the big brush, they need to grow a pair and work like hell to clean up their departments no matter what the rest of the "boys" think of them.

I understand that and agree. On that note, I am in the HVAC industry. I have tried to "Clean up" more than a few company's by weeding out the bad eggs and have done some good but overall it was a waste of time. Even at this level folks are going to do as they will regardless of what you say, think or do. All I can do is keep on going and no longer care about the big picture. To many "Brushes" in that mess.

 

[churchmouse]

I can see that, the truth and reality has very little to do with these threads. Sorry to toss a hand grenade into the room.

I get the reference.....good point.

 

[phylodog]

I am pretty new here, but from what I have seen of his posts I would agree with you. I am just saying the response certainly doesnt help. We need good LEOs with courage to stand up and speak out when things like this happen. The problem is that all I ever hear, even from the good ones, is
"dont paint us all with the same brush." If they dont want painted with the big brush, they need to grow a pair and work like hell to clean up their departments no matter what the rest of the "boys" think of them.

This is the biggest part of the frustration right here. If I could snap my fingers and make anyone on my agency who shouldn't be a police officer disappear, do you not think I would do it?

The problem is, I don't know a full 50% (minimum) of the people on my department. Don't know them, don't know their face, probably wouldn't recognize their name and damned sure don't have the foggiest idea what they're up to at this very moment. Yet I am partially to blame if some moron, who was hired due to reasons other than he would make a good police officer, is out there making a traffic stop without a valid stopping charge, forfeiting money when no crime has been committed or God knows what else. It's my fault, at least partially. That is the thought process of everyone in the planet who doesn't have the foggiest idea how law enforcement works.

It ain't a factory job. Half the guys in my district could wear clown shoes to work tomorrow and even if I was working, I wouldn't have a clue. They could be two streets over smacking an old lady in the mouth and I wouldn't have a clue. Yet I'm responsible. I'm like them.

Gotta love it.

 

[churchmouse]

This is the biggest part of the frustration right here. If I could snap my fingers and make anyone on my agency who shouldn't be a police officer disappear, do you not think I would do it?

The problem is, I don't know a full 50% (minimum) of the people on my department. Don't know them, don't know their face, probably wouldn't recognize their name and damned sure don't have the foggiest idea what they're up to at this very moment. Yet I am partially to blame if some moron, who was hired due to reasons other than he would make a good police officer, is out there making a traffic stop without a valid stopping charge, forfeiting money when no crime has been committed or God knows what else. It's my fault, at least partially. That is the thought process of everyone in the planet who doesn't have the foggiest idea how law enforcement works.

It ain't a factory job. Half the guys in my district could wear clown shoes to work tomorrow and even if I was working, I wouldn't have a clue. They could be two streets over smacking an old lady in the mouth and I wouldn't have a clue. Yet I'm responsible. I'm like them.

Gotta love it.

Good point. Well said.
I think (I know) it is easy to get stirred up over these things especially in light of all the BS coming down from our elected officials. There are conspiracy's and cover ups everywhere these days. Not just with LEO. Folks are looking for something, anything they can truly believe in. It is getting tough to find.
Stay the course.

 

[buckwacker]

This is the biggest part of the frustration right here. If I could snap my fingers and make anyone on my agency who shouldn't be a police officer disappear, do you not think I would do it?

The problem is, I don't know a full 50% (minimum) of the people on my department. Don't know them, don't know their face, probably wouldn't recognize their name and damned sure don't have the foggiest idea what they're up to at this very moment. Yet I am partially to blame if some moron, who was hired due to reasons other than he would make a good police officer, is out there making a traffic stop without a valid stopping charge, forfeiting money when no crime has been committed or God knows what else. It's my fault, at least partially. That is the thought process of everyone in the planet who doesn't have the foggiest idea how law enforcement works.

It ain't a factory job. Half the guys in my district could wear clown shoes to work tomorrow and even if I was working, I wouldn't have a clue. They could be two streets over smacking an old lady in the mouth and I wouldn't have a clue. Yet I'm responsible. I'm like them.

Gotta love it.

All I was trying to say was that if the decent guys in the deparment would actively speak up to their superiors, the media, the citizens, whoever, instead of silence or the "we're not all like that" response or even worse "helping a buddy out" we probably wouldnt have nearly as many of these problems. There is a lot of pressure put on you guys ingnore and be quiet. Kinda like the snitch in the hood.

 

[CBR1000rr]

level.eleven:

As a police officer and veteran of the American Armed Forces I am also appauled by the actions revealed in this news report. I would however, ask that you refrain from placing everyone who wears a badge as a criminal or bad individual.

As for forfeitures, Indiana also allows for these to occur; however, Indiana is much more strict on how and when it can occur. Indiana also dictates how that money can be spent. As an example: Indiana police officers are required to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the money being possessed was actually used for the purchase or was gained by the sale of controlled substances. The police department only gets to keep that amount of money that it gained from the investigation (i.e.: if they confiscated $10,000.00 and it cost the police agency $2,000.00 for the investigation then the only get $2,000.00), the rest of the money then goes to the school district when the police agency is located.

The only other way, in Indiana, for law enforcement to get a forfeiture is through the Federal Judicial system, and that is equally as difficult.

I, as well, could not believe that they could use something from that long ago to establish anything more than suspicion - but that is Tennessee. Additionally, that officer is doing what he has been directed to do. I am not saying that it is right, I am just saying that he is enforcing or seizing that which the Tennessee state law allows or mandates him to do.

I guess an analogy would be that every factory worker that built either a Ford, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Toyota, etc is a crook because of his wages or because (insert person here) bought one and had problems with it.

Maybe I am asking too much, but just a little civility towards catagorizing all based on the actions of one.

I too was in the service and I remember swearing an oath. It went something like this:

"I, _____________, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I have never been a LEO but I can only assume that a similar oath was taken? Thank's to Google, I found this little jewel. If this isn't the correct oath, I apologize in advance.

"On my honor,
I will never betray my badge,
my integrity, my character,
or the public trust.
I will always have
the courage to hold myself
and others accountable for our actions.
I will always uphold the constitution
my community and the agency I serve."

There are several similarities between the two oaths but there is one in particular that stands out. They both refer to upholding the constitution of the United States. Now, what I find even more interesting is the mention of having the courage to hold yourself and others accountable for their actions.

My question to any LEO on this site is, why is it acceptable to hold a civilian accountable for his/her actions yet instead of having the courage to hold one of your own accountable you (generally speaking of an LEO and not the quoted poster) defend their actions? Isn't this in direct violation of the oath?

My next question; when you execute an "order" that directly violates the Constitution (such as the one the LEO in the article did), how is it that he and his fellow officers/superiors escape prosecution? Seems slightly hypocritical?

I can honestly say, I don't hold this specific LEO, or any LEO for that matter, at fault. I mean, if he were to have the courage to stand up for the constitution as well as his and his communities honor he would have lost his job and been shunned by society for his remaining years.

I know it isn't your job to interpret the law but the Constitution doesn't need any interpretation. The 5th amendment to the Bill of Rights clearly states:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

I apologize for the rant but a badge doesn't place one above the law. Can you not see why LEO's receive the flack they do? I believe the job of an LEO to be one of the more difficult jobs out there. I personally wouldn't want to take it on. However, if one chooses this profession, they are choosing to be held to a higher standard. It is expected that you honor your oath at all times and not just when it's convenient. If you loose your job for honoring your oath then so be it. Your integrity is supposed to be an example.

**Disclaimer**
I am not referring to a specific LEO. I truly don't understand the double standard. there were a few comments while I was posting mine and I understand that the departments are so large that one individual can't be held responsible for the actions of his peers.

 

[buckwacker]

I too was in the service and I remember swearing an oath. It went something like this:

"I, _____________, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I have never been a LEO but I can only assume that a similar oath was taken? Thank's to Google, I found this little jewel. If this isn't the correct oath, I apologize in advance.

"On my honor,
I will never betray my badge,
my integrity, my character,
or the public trust.
I will always have
the courage to hold myself
and others accountable for our actions.
I will always uphold the constitution
my community and the agency I serve."

There are several similarities between the two oaths but there is one in particular that stands out. They both refer to upholding the constitution of the United States. Now, what I find even more interesting is the mention of having the courage to hold yourself and others accountable for their actions.

My question to any LEO on this site is, why is it acceptable to hold a civilian accountable for his/her actions yet instead of having the courage to hold one of your own accountable you (generally speaking of an LEO and not the quoted poster) defend their actions? Isn't this in direct violation of the oath?

My next question; when you execute an "order" that directly violates the Constitution (such as the one the LEO in the article did), how is it that he and his fellow officers/superiors escape prosecution? Seems slightly hypocritical?

I can honestly say, I don't hold this specific LEO, or any LEO for that matter, at fault. I mean, if he were to have the courage to stand up for the constitution as well as his and his communities honor he would have lost his job and been shunned by society for his remaining years.

I know it isn't your job to interpret the law but the Constitution doesn't need any interpretation. The 5th amendment to the Bill of Rights clearly states:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

I apologize for the rant but a badge doesn't place one above the law. Can you not see why LEO's receive the flack they do? I believe the job of an LEO to be one of the more difficult jobs out there. I personally wouldn't want to take it on. However, if one chooses this profession, they are choosing to be held to a higher standard. It is expected that you honor your oath at all times and not just when it's convenient. If you loose your job for honoring your oath then so be it. Your integrity is supposed to be an example.

**Disclaimer**
I am not referring to a specific LEO. I truly don't understand the double standard. there were a few comments while I was posting mine and I understand that the departments are so large that one individual can't be held responsible for the actions of his peers.

Well said. When ones integrity and duty to those he serves comes before his job security and the approval of his peers, he will earn an immense amount of respect from those he serves.

 

[griffin]

Pretty ****ing obvious hanging around this place that very few do, no?

The one who sits around naked in a truck, touching himself and searching for anything LE related to post is just butt hurt that he wasn't good enough to get a job in this profession.

WTF are you talking about? Are you drunk? Seriously, get help.

 

[churchmouse]

WTF are you talking about? Are you drunk? Seriously, get help.

You have to know some history and not take this post at face value. Runs a bit deeper. Just saying.

 

[phylodog]

WTF are you talking about? Are you drunk? Seriously, get help.

Yes, I am both new here and was quite obviously intoxicated. Since you appear to be clueless on several levels please continue to comment, it's become common practice.

 

[CBR1000rr]

level.eleven:

As a police officer and veteran of the American Armed Forces I am also appauled by the actions revealed in this news report. I would however, ask that you refrain from placing everyone who wears a badge as a criminal or bad individual.

As for forfeitures, Indiana also allows for these to occur; however, Indiana is much more strict on how and when it can occur. Indiana also dictates how that money can be spent. As an example: Indiana police officers are required to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the money being possessed was actually used for the purchase or was gained by the sale of controlled substances. The police department only gets to keep that amount of money that it gained from the investigation (i.e.: if they confiscated $10,000.00 and it cost the police agency $2,000.00 for the investigation then the only get $2,000.00), the rest of the money then goes to the school district when the police agency is located.

The only other way, in Indiana, for law enforcement to get a forfeiture is through the Federal Judicial system, and that is equally as difficult.

I, as well, could not believe that they could use something from that long ago to establish anything more than suspicion - but that is Tennessee. Additionally, that officer is doing what he has been directed to do. I am not saying that it is right, I am just saying that he is enforcing or seizing that which the Tennessee state law allows or mandates him to do.

I guess an analogy would be that every factory worker that built either a Ford, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Toyota, etc is a crook because of his wages or because (insert person here) bought one and had problems with it.

Maybe I am asking too much, but just a little civility towards catagorizing all based on the actions of one.

Well said. When ones integrity and duty to those he serves comes before his job security and the approval of his peers, he will earn an immense amount of respect from those he serves.

My thoughts exactly.

I know we are human and that we are speaking of one specific group which is extremely difficult to not generalize. When the media reports on something, that's the only side we see. We hear of one bad incident while millions of other incidents go un recognized. It really isn't fair and it demonizes the entire group.

When I hear about laws being enforced that violate the constitution without any repercussions, it makes me wonder how any man or woman of integrity can sit idly by and not fight for their community?

I can imagine that as an LEO it is difficult enough to to put that uniform on every day knowing you're going to possibly come across the wrong bad guy. Then to be exiled from your peers for standing up for the rights of the citizens would only make it worse but I go back to my original statement and the quoted comment.





It might be easier to stand up and fight the good fight if you weren't drunk all the time Phylodog

 

[UncleMike]

You have to know some history and not take this post at face value. Runs a bit deeper. Just saying.

For many people it's far easier to make rash, uninformed, baseless accusations than do a little research and have the facts.
It's a way of life here...

 

[buckwacker]

For many people it's far easier to make rash, uninformed, baseless accusations than do a little research and have the facts.
It's a way of life here...

That is your opinion, but that doesnt make your rash, uninformed, baseless accusation about those critical of abuse of power true now does it. But you can go ahead and put your head in the sand if you want. There is a systemic problem inside LE and it will continue and yes, even get worse if all you "good guys" do is complain when you are lumped in with the others. It isnt going to just take a majority of you "good guys" doing your job properly, it is going to take making a stand against the abuse of power, lack of integrity, and disregard for those you are hired to serve regardless of who is responsible.