STARTING to consider long gun. S&W M&P 15 a good choice for an AR?

[wesnellans]

I'll admit I'm pretty knowledge-less (is that a word?) about the whole evil black rifle thing. I've been looking at M&P 15 Sports because they seem to offer a good value in a basic AR.

Or do they? Is the M&P 15 Sport good, bad, or indifferent? I'm really only considering an AR for HD and expect to fire it only enough to become proficient - not gonna do any run-and-gun 3 gun matches or anything.

Thoughts, INGO?

 

[2500ekW]

I've got an M&P 15 Sport and I couldn't be happier. Don't let the snobs convince you otherwise. It is THE least expensive way to get a 100% complete AR from a big name company.

No dust cover? I'm not taking it to Iraq.
No forward assist? I don't want to force a round into the chamber that, for whatever reason, didn't seat normally on its own.

 

[warthog]

if you want an AR, get one with a piston so it doesn't poop where it eats. You will be much happier I guarantee it, I love my Ruger SR556 so much I sold all my "regular" AR's off and bought other things with the money. I will even admit the KelTec SU16 series isn't a bad choice if money is tight. I have one of those too, an SU-16C, that has served me well since they released them originally. They are just a little less hardy than the Ruger.

 

[wesnellans]

Gotta admit I'm so clueless as to have no idea what models have a piston, those that don't, and why it matters.

if you want an AR, get one with a piston so it doesn't poop where it eats. You will be much happier I guarantee it, I love my Ruger SR556 so much I sold all my "regular" AR's off and bought other things with the money. I will even admit the KelTec SU16 series isn't a bad choice if money is tight. I have one of those too, an SU-16C, that has served me well since they released them originally. They are just a little less hardy than the Ruger.

 

[roadrunner681]

Gotta admit I'm so clueless as to have no idea what models have a piston, those that don't, and why it matters.

well in that case stick with a regular AR15, there use a system called direct impingement. it operates on gas, when the bullet passes a port in the barrel the gas is directed up though a tube back to the bolt cycling the gun, hence the name direct impingement. pistons systems, use a piston in place of the tube, the gas pushes on the piston and stays up near the front of the gun. a regular ar 15 uses the DI system, there simpler than a piston and often MUCH cheaper, the DI is extremely reliable as long as its wet. i would start with that.

 

[223 Gunner]

Even piston guns get dirty guys, just not in the chamber. DI guns are just fine and have been for years. Piston guns start at 1200 and up.

 

[warthog]

All guns get dirty, not all guns bake the soot onto them and make it really hard to clean. not all guns make the parts have illite places to bake that soot on making it necessary to buy either special tools or picks and such so you can clean them completely. For me it's all about how easy it is to clean ofter I put several hundred to a thousand rounds down range. Not all DI guns are the same either, a tube gun for instance is still easy to clean. What makes the AR so different IMO is the way it makes itself dirty in the place where it is most needed to stay reasonable clean, where it feeds the rounds. As they say though, each to their own and certainly the AR15/M16 has a proven battle record, ask the Vietnam vets though how much they like the rifle. It does shoot well and it makes a nice gun for most folks, there are hordes of aftermarket items for it so it is easy to customize as well. I find that there are other rifles that can do as well without the mess. It's a personal preference, nothing more. I wanted to make sure that the OP (understood he could have his EBR and still not have to deal with all the crap that goes with it. I can say from experience my SR556 cleans up after the range a lot easier and cleaner than any of my AR's ever did and for me that makes it far more preferable.

 

[roadrunner681]

All guns get dirty, not all guns bake the soot onto them and make it really hard to clean. not all guns make the parts have illite places to bake that soot on making it necessary to buy either special tools or picks and such so you can clean them completely. For me it's all about how easy it is to clean ofter I put several hundred to a thousand rounds down range. Not all DI guns are the same either, a tube gun for instance is still easy to clean. What makes the AR so different IMO is the way it makes itself dirty in the place where it is most needed to stay reasonable clean, where it feeds the rounds. As they say though, each to their own and certainly the AR15/M16 has a proven battle record, ask the Vietnam vets though how much they like the rifle. It does shoot well and it makes a nice gun for most folks, there are hordes of aftermarket items for it so it is easy to customize as well. I find that there are other rifles that can do as well without the mess. It's a personal preference, nothing more. I wanted to make sure that the O{understood he could have his EBR and still not have to deal with all the crap that goes with it. I can say from experience my SR556 cleans up after the range a lot easier and cleaner than any of my AR's ever did and for me that makes it far more preferable.

im not doubting that the ruger is not a very good rifle, but i think a fella that is still on the fence should stick with the a basic operating system at first, that way you can up in upgrades easily. and if he dosn't like it he ain't out to much.

 

[warthog]

the Ruger will allow all those upgrades too as you can put almost any AR accessory on it you like. It is also easy to change how the trigger feels.

Saying that a new guy should start with something substandard, again my opinion, means to me that he should waste his money learning he should have gotten the good stuff first.

He wants his options, why is it wrong for me to give him these things and add the reasons why I am saying what I am saying? I am making sure that he understands it is my opinion after all.

 

[kawtech87]

I have a Ruger SR-556 and a Windham Weaponry DI rifle. I find I shoot (and prefer) the DI rifle more for a few reasons. The main reason is weight. The Ruger is no lightweight, in fact it is kind of a chunky monkey. That being said it has much lighter felt recoil and I can dump a 30 rnd mag and stick my finger on the bolt with no fear of severe burns. The gas piston is adjustable for use with a suppressor or what have you and it is much easier to clean.


My DI rifle is lighter, just as accurate, has slightly more felt recoil, runs dirty and hot but it always runs. But the main advantage a DI gun has over Ruger's proprietary piston system is that a DI gun is end user serviceable. With only minor tutelage from someone who knows what they are doing anyone can take a DI gun all the way down to a box of parts and reassemble a functioning rifle. This is why I have come to appreciate DI guns. If something takes a poop on the Ruger guess what, back to Ruger it goes for service. Now Ruger DOES have one of the best customer service reputations in the business but I still would not want to be without my rifle for a couple week while they service it.

OP check out Windham Weaponry ARs as well. IMHO one of the best bang for the buck ARs you can buy. I bought my WW SRC for $850.00 before the craziness.

 

[kawtech87]

the Ruger will allow all those upgrades too as you can put almost any AR accessory on it you like..

That is except a different forend or Bolt/ bolt carrier group.

 

[straight-shooter]

I have a M&P 15 and it never misses a beat spitting ammo downrange. No regrets on the purchase as it's a very solid platform. For what I do with it at the range I don't feel the need for a more expensive "look at me" AR-15. Mine came with the troy battle sights and I changed out the plastic forgrip for a extended troy quad-rail. Take it from me when I say you'll be satisfied with your decision if you decide to get the M&P.

 

[warthog]

"If something takes a poop on the Ruger guess what, back to Ruger it goes for service. Now Ruger DOES have one of the best customer service reputations in the business but I still would not want to be without my rifle for a couple week while they service it."​

It takes about a week to get it back in perfect working order. I have other rifles too but it is true this will be his first so he would indeed be without his until he got it back. I am sure that that would be the moment that the world ended. I know that is my luck and why I bought more than one rifle. I mean it, I know that would be my luck and is my reason for back ups. He may have a hand gun though and if he does you can use those to acquire a long gun if the world ends. After all anything goes one this happens.

Look, I admit it is heavier and all. I am just trying to give him options. Is there a reason that once I've done this that people come out of the woodwork to say what a bad choice it is? It is just an opinion I have. I would far more see the guy buy a quality AK as I am sure he will like that so much more than an AR but again, that is just me. I thought he should know his options and mentioned the Ruger since it is what I have myself, there are other piston "AR" to choose from as well. So there I leave you all, feel free to advise him against anything I have added as an option. He is a big boy and will make the final choice after all.

Run with the pack, at least you'll have a bunch of guys to help you when it breaks. Enjoy.

 

[wesnellans]

See, that's what I'm talking about. A simple, basic, shoots when it should platform. In fact I've often thought about an AK (gasp!) for that very reason.

I'm a handgunner through and through. The whole gas thing has me a bit intimidated, and the idea of all these little nooks and crannies and tubes and such just makes me shiver.

I have a M&P 15 and it never misses a beat spitting ammo downrange. No regrets on the purchase as it's a very solid platform. For what I do with it at the range I don't feel the need for a more expensive "look at me" AR-15. Mine came with the troy battle sights and I changed out the plastic forgrip for a extended troy quad-rail. Take it from me when I say you'll be satisfied with your decision if you decide to get the M&P.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

If you want it and can afford it, buy it.

I have a small pile of AR's and I'm thinking about buying an M&P because I don't have one and I really like guns.

I strongly believe that you should buy the gun you want.

Besides, it's not like it will be your only AR, it is very likely that it will just be your first on.

 

[warthog]

That is except a different forend or Bolt/ bolt carrier group.

yeah and lord knows the ones provided suck. I quit, get a crappy rifle and go with the pack. it's so much easier then making your own trail.

What a group. All I did was state an opinion.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The inevitable gun forum response to a guy who wants a basic anything. The upsell. He's not looking for an upper end rifle.

OP -

The standard AR runs fine. You don't need a piston gun to shoot enough to be proficient and then home defense. I have, and continue, to be willing to trust my life with the standard ol' direct gas system.

The M&P is absolute 100% fine for what you want to do with it. I just get the heeby-jeebies if I don't have a dust cover and forward assist because of the military. Logic doesn't always win over emotion, and I require both of them to feel comfortable with the rifle.. You do not suffer from my limitations. Get the S&W and enjoy it.

 

[straight-shooter]

 

[The Bubba Effect]

See, that's what I'm talking about. A simple, basic, shoots when it should platform. In fact I've often thought about an AK (gasp!) for that very reason.

I'm a handgunner through and through. The whole gas thing has me a bit intimidated, and the idea of all these little nooks and crannies and tubes and such just makes me shiver.

AK's are awesome too. I love mine.

I have thousands of rounds through my AR's and I am not delicate with my tools. In my experience, the regular AR gas system has been boringly reliable. I will probably buy a piston AR when I find a deal on one, but my regular AR's work just fine.

That said, AK's are great! If someone had neither AR nor AK and they asked me which they should get, I would advise them to just pick one and buy it. 7.62x39 is cheaper right now than .223 by about 10 cents a round and AR's are A LOT easier to mount scopes on.

 

[heatman]

I have a Ruger SR-556 and a Windham Weaponry DI rifle. I find I shoot (and prefer) the DI rifle more for a few reasons. The main reason is weight. The Ruger is no lightweight, in fact it is kind of a chunky monkey. That being said it has much lighter felt recoil and I can dump a 30 rnd mag and stick my finger on the bolt with no fear of severe burns. The gas piston is adjustable for use with a suppressor or what have you and it is much easier to clean.


My DI rifle is lighter, just as accurate, has slightly more felt recoil, runs dirty and hot but it always runs. But the main advantage a DI gun has over Ruger's proprietary piston system is that a DI gun is end user serviceable. With only minor tutelage from someone who knows what they are doing anyone can take a DI gun all the way down to a box of parts and reassemble a functioning rifle. This is why I have come to appreciate DI guns. If something takes a poop on the Ruger guess what, back to Ruger it goes for service. Now Ruger DOES have one of the best customer service reputations in the business but I still would not want to be without my rifle for a couple week while they service it.

OP check out Windham Weaponry ARs as well. IMHO one of the best bang for the buck ARs you can buy. I bought my WW SRC for $850.00 before the craziness.

There are some really good deals right now if you know where to look. I just got a Windham SRC 2 weeks ago new for $769 including the the FFL transfer.