Starbuck's Caving In

[churchmouse]

Exactly, "in your face" tactics are highly successful. Look at the "gay rights" movement, they've moved the ball with "in your face" tactics from a nearly universally despised minority to a political force that is kowtowed to. Hiding, bowing and scraping get you nowhere in politics.

Agreed but shoving an agenda (or your butt) into someones face is far different than packing an AR into soccer mom heaven. JMHO of course.

 

[churchmouse]

I guess you could just cook the beans to charcoal, then dump a few cups of sugar and some whipped cream onto it if you're really desperate for the Genuine Starbucks Experience™.

Then take a five dollar bill out of your wallet and burn it. See, just like the real thing!

Sorry...rep Nazi says no....+1

 

[Fordtough25]

I had no idea people were carrying AR's and shotguns and such in the coffee place! Like already said, I am glad we can do that but doing so in a place like Starbucks is asking for a mess. I OC a pistol sometimes but usually CC because everybody doesn't need to know what I have available.

 

[Chewie]

EEEEG-ZACKERY! The low-key approach would have been the considerate, respectful and appropriate response. But there HAD to be a few handfuls of hardcore 2a zealots go and take things to the EXTREME and over the top with a kind in your face victory dance by carrying every piece of legal equipment in any manner that scares the bejesus out the general public. And what happened? EXACTLY what anyone with half a brain would have predicted. ACTUALLY less than what I would have predicted. I would have guessed that SB might very well have gone to an outright ban. But he didn't. And now the MDA's are doing a victory dance. Allbeit a hollow one because it isn't a result of anything that they did. Which makes it worse. It's like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning with game in hand pushing for that last humiliating touchdown and then throwing the worst possible pass at the worst possible time right into the hands of the other team for a pic-6 instead of running out the clock for the win. Can you say snatching defeat from the jaws of victory? Because that is exactly what has happened thanks to a segment of folks that JUST HAD TO STICK IN THE FACE OF THE MDA's.

I'm not sure how I will approach SB going forward. I didn't visit that often to begin with and I'll probably visit less often now. But I doubt that I will stop completely because a few fools forced Mr. Schultz to do something that he wasn't planning on doing to begin with.

Just my

I have to agree completely on this. First you need to realize that the only time I go to SB's is when I get a gift card at Christmas.
When I first heard about the "Appreciation" day idea I thought it was pretty good (I never made it to one), then I see that alot of the people attending are the OC crowd (doesn't bother me) but..... think about it...... carrying is not a widely accepted idea amongst many SB officiando's, especially open carry, and in groups. Now it's getting a little questionable. Concealed carry, fine, it's concealed, but groups of OC people, that can be scary to the uninformed koolaid drinkers. Is the the image we want to present to gain acceptance? Then the goofies show up with the AR's and the AK's, etc., BIG mistake. The extreme really turns a lot of people off and it killed the appreciation day attendance for me. We don't need to create anymore anti's than we already have. A few people have created a mess for the rest. Showing support is one thing, being a gun exibitionist is another. We shot ourselves in the foot on this one. We forced SB's into this position, it is a business trying to make money and EVERYONE knows you cater to the largest customer base, it's called good business practice.
SB's has followed the prudent path, please leave your guns at home or in the car (pandering to it's largest customer base) but we won't refuse service to those who choose to carry in our stores (meeting the requirements of the smaller group of customers).
So what has changed? Nothing that I can see! Mothers Demanding Action Because They Are Frustrated got what they wanted and gun owners got what they wanted (most have said they don't go there anyway).
I am not a troll, and I am not a liberal, so don't go there. I try to rely on common sense and logic (as an engineer) and listen to both sides to make up my mind.
Emotional responses to gun control issues is the realm of the liberals and the liberal media, don't play their game and don't give them any ammunition!
Just my thoughts, takem or leavem, your decision.

My fingers hurt from typing so I'll get off my soap box (thin air up here is making me dizzy).

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Exactly, "in your face" tactics are highly successful. Look at the "gay rights" movement, they've moved the ball with "in your face" tactics from a nearly universally despised minority to a political force that is kowtowed to. Hiding, bowing and scraping get you nowhere in politics.

This is a good point. But one of the main differences is pop culture began to sympathize with homosexuals back in the '80s (+/-). When OC'ers and other gun carrying folks are shown on TV shows as something other than mass murderers and thugs, when they are shown in everyday family situations going peacefuly about their business, maybe shown as heros rather than camo wearin', militia joinin', fudds then maybe the mass' attitudes and acceptance will begin to change. It wasn't the "gay pride" parades that did all the changing of peoples' minds.

 

[Expat]

I just don't get the gay comparison. They were the darlings, the cause celebre, of the entertainment industry and the MSM. They were seen as innocent victims of evil Christians. The entertainment industry and MSM all despise gun owners. We are not going to get any sympathetic portrayals in their movies, songs, news articles, etc.

 

[EOD Guy]

I don't blame them for not wanting their stores to be a political battleground.

Not being serious but to prove a point...just imagine if someone from Starbucks was quoted as being pro-abortion? Its legal and many people support / oppose the practice. Next thing you know a bunch of anti-abortion folks are picketing a store with pictures of dead babies and screaming at customers just wanting a cappa-frappa-moca-latte-chino. Would you want that outside your business?

 

[CarmelHP]

I just don't get the gay comparison. They were the darlings, the cause celebre, of the entertainment industry and the MSM. They were seen as innocent victims of evil Christians. The entertainment industry and MSM all despise gun owners. We are not going to get any sympathetic portrayals in their movies, songs, news articles, etc.

Then you better be prepared to just fade away. No upstart social movement has achieved much of anything without radicalism.

 

[churchmouse]

Then you better be prepared to just fade away. No upstart social movement has achieved much of anything without radicalism.

Again...true.

These days radicals are "Labeled" to fit the media agenda. We no longer have an un-biased and honest media. They have an agenda and are not scared to push it.

 

[jamil]

Again...true.

These days radicals are "Labeled" to fit the media agenda. We no longer have an un-biased and honest media. They have an agenda and are not scared to push it.

I dont' think the media ever was unbiased and honest. It's just that now the its bias is more one-sided than ever.

 

[Smokepole]

I have to agree completely on this. First you need to realize that the only time I go to SB's is when I get a gift card at Christmas.
When I first heard about the "Appreciation" day idea I thought it was pretty good (I never made it to one), then I see that alot of the people attending are the OC crowd (doesn't bother me) but..... think about it...... carrying is not a widely accepted idea amongst many SB officiando's, especially open carry, and in groups. Now it's getting a little questionable. Concealed carry, fine, it's concealed, but groups of OC people, that can be scary to the uninformed koolaid drinkers. Is the the image we want to present to gain acceptance? Then the goofies show up with the AR's and the AK's, etc., BIG mistake. The extreme really turns a lot of people off and it killed the appreciation day attendance for me. We don't need to create anymore anti's than we already have. A few people have created a mess for the rest. Showing support is one thing, being a gun exibitionist is another. We shot ourselves in the foot on this one. We forced SB's into this position, it is a business trying to make money and EVERYONE knows you cater to the largest customer base, it's called good business practice.
SB's has followed the prudent path, please leave your guns at home or in the car (pandering to it's largest customer base) but we won't refuse service to those who choose to carry in our stores (meeting the requirements of the smaller group of customers).
So what has changed? Nothing that I can see! Mothers Demanding Action Because They Are Frustrated got what they wanted and gun owners got what they wanted (most have said they don't go there anyway).
I am not a troll, and I am not a liberal, so don't go there. I try to rely on common sense and logic (as an engineer) and listen to both sides to make up my mind.
Emotional responses to gun control issues is the realm of the liberals and the liberal media, don't play their game and don't give them any ammunition!
Just my thoughts, takem or leavem, your decision.

My fingers hurt from typing so I'll get off my soap box (thin air up here is making me dizzy).

Perfect point. I'd love to hand off some rep but apparently the rep button is broke. I can tell you that I approve and leave you a note but it won't give me the option of giving points. The only point option available is 0. And I haven't given any rep in days. An earlier post mentioned that the "rep nazi" wasn't playing well with others. So I'm sending you virtual rep.

It won't show but you got it anyway.

 

[Smokepole]

Exactly, "in your face" tactics are highly successful. Look at the "gay rights" movement, they've moved the ball with "in your face" tactics from a nearly universally despised minority to a political force that is kowtowed to. Hiding, bowing and scraping get you nowhere in politics.

CHP, you and I see eye to eye on a lot of things here on INGO, but here we disagree. The LGBT'ers got where they are with an entire political party and a slavering, lapdog media pushing their agendas every chance they got and even making opportunities when there weren't any. As well they take every opportunity to try to make anyone and everyone who isn't on board feel guilty for NOT being on board. THIS is the program that has put the LGBT agenda where it is today. Without the media and Hollywood beating the public over the head on this, all of the over the top, ribald antics of the militant gays would have simply turned most all of the straight citizenry off and they would still be in the closet.

We face a huge uphill battle that is 10 times harder because we don't have a slavering, sympathetic 24/7 media taking and making EVERY opportunity to put our cause in everyone's face and making them feel guilty for not being sympathetic. The militant, over the top, hardcore 2A proponents imposing their heavily armed presence on a general public that feels physically threatened by such overt actions are NOT helping the cause. The public used to be generally disgusted with the militant LGBT movement. The militant 2A folks actually make many in the general public feel afraid and physically threatened to the point that they don't want walk into a place where they might experience such an encounter. The exact OPPOSITE of what we want to accomplish. You don't ease your sister's fear of chainsaws by rushing at her with a roaring chainsaw pushed out in front of you. You will only deepen that fear. A more civil and pragmatic approach is necessary whether we like it or not. It also provides us with the high road as long as we are respectful in our approach and makes it easier to teach the general public who are in desperate need of education.

There is an oceans worth of difference between bowing, hiding and scraping (which no one is doing or advocating) and simply not going WAAAY over the top militant and scaring the bejesus out of the very people that you are trying to win over. One word, counterproductive.

 

[churchmouse]

I dont' think the media ever was unbiased and honest. It's just that now the its bias is more one-sided than ever.

^^^^This^^^^^

And every single person in the world has access to 24/7 news broadcasts. They have so much more time to brainwash the sheeple. This may be too simple an explanation but it is true.

 

[Chewie]

Perfect point. I'd love to hand off some rep but apparently the rep button is broke. I can tell you that I approve and leave you a note but it won't give me the option of giving points. The only point option available is 0. And I haven't given any rep in days. An earlier post mentioned that the "rep nazi" wasn't playing well with others. So I'm sending you virtual rep.

It won't show but you got it anyway.

So not only do we have to fight the anti-gunners we have to fight the Rep Nazi's? I thought we beat them back in the 40's?
Thanks for the +1, I don't post often but I hold to my values when I do, Thanks.

Just want to make sure that people think about this type of activity and its results if it ever should happen again.
Responding sensibly scores a lot more points than a knee jerk reaction, even in a war you plan and consider the results.

 

[CarmelHP]

CHP, you and I see eye to eye on a lot of things here on INGO, but here we disagree. The LGBT'ers got where they are with an entire political party and a slavering, lapdog media pushing their agendas every chance they got and even making opportunities when there weren't any. As well they take every opportunity to try to make anyone and everyone who isn't on board feel guilty for NOT being on board. THIS is the program that has put the LGBT agenda where it is today. Without the media and Hollywood beating the public over the head on this, all of the over the top, ribald antics of the militant gays would have simply turned most all of the straight citizenry off and they would still be in the closet.

We face a huge uphill battle that is 10 times harder because we don't have a slavering, sympathetic 24/7 media taking and making EVERY opportunity to put our cause in everyone's face and making them feel guilty for not being sympathetic. The militant, over the top, hardcore 2A proponents imposing their heavily armed presence on a general public that feels physically threatened by such overt actions are NOT helping the cause. The public used to be generally disgusted with the militant LGBT movement. The militant 2A folks actually make many in the general public feel afraid and physically threatened to the point that they don't want walk into a place where they might experience such an encounter. The exact OPPOSITE of what we want to accomplish. You don't ease your sister's fear of chainsaws by rushing at her with a roaring chainsaw pushed out in front of you. You will only deepen that fear. A more civil and pragmatic approach is necessary whether we like it or not. It also provides us with the high road as long as we are respectful in our approach and makes it easier to teach the general public who are in desperate need of education.

There is an oceans worth of difference between bowing, hiding and scraping (which no one is doing or advocating) and simply not going WAAAY over the top militant and scaring the bejesus out of the very people that you are trying to win over. One word, counterproductive.

We'll have to disagree, gays weren't embraced by the media right off, but they got themselves attention until Hollywood and the media took up the banner. There is always a symbiosis between the radicals, and the "reasonable." I don't open carry at Starbucks or elsewhere, but I do see the demonstrations by those who do as valuable shows of numbers. They're doing yeoman's work for which most of us are not cut out. And to top it off, there is damn little appreciation from their supposed compatriots.

 

[SERparacord]

[h=1]Starbucks didn't ban guns, but these places did[/h]
[h=2]Peet's, Whole Foods and Disney theme parks are among the many that strictly prohibit customers from carrying weapons on premises.[/h]

Starbucks didn't ban guns but these places did- MSN Money

 

[Chewie]

We'll have to disagree, gays weren't embraced by the media right off, but they got themselves attention until Hollywood and the media took up the banner. There is always a symbiosis between the radicals, and the "reasonable." I don't open carry at Starbucks or elsewhere, but I do see the demonstrations by those who do as valuable shows of numbers. They're doing yeoman's work for which most of us are not cut out. And to top it off, there is damn little appreciation from their supposed compatriots.

OC is one thing as an occasional visit from a patron. Groups of OC's WILL make a misinformed koolaid drinker even more fearful becaus now those evil guns are being carried by nuts. When you get to the ones who carry AR's (already a "marked" evil murderous weapon that kills) and AK's (almost as bad) you might as well pull into the parking lot in an M1A1 Abrahms. Now you have evil nuts carrying evil guns and they must be Red Neck Hillbillies out of the woods.
No matter how bad you want to make a point PRESENTATION is everything. Gays and Lesbians were not associated with killing so they became the misunderstood child of the media.

Damn, on my soap box again. Gotta quit that.

 

[CarmelHP]

Gays and Lesbians were not associated with killing so they became the misunderstood child of the media.

Really, you must not remember that they were blamed for the spread of a horrible, incurable disease, AIDS, which was originally called GRID (gay related immune deficiency). How is prancing down the street in a G-string, or less, in front of families "good presentation." People here have a very short memory and narrow scope of observation.

 

[Smokepole]

Really, you must not remember that they were blamed for the spread of a horrible, incurable disease, AIDS, which was originally called GRID (gay related immune deficiency). How is prancing down the street in a G-string, or less, in front of families "good presentation." People here have a very short memory and narrow scope of observation.

I do remember very well. I was working in nightclubs and participating in the (shall we call it) social scene when all of that was going on, along with the demonization that was involved at the beginning. But, you seem to have forgotten that the gays ended up with the entire Democrat party and the whole of the media complex taking up their cause once "evidence" came out that they weren't going to infect the universe with Aids. At that point they became everybody's little darlings again (figuratively of course) and have since been given a pass on all of the stupid, over the top crap that their militant segment pulls while the Dems and the media label anyone who expresses anything other than acceptance as bigoted and prejudiced. Remember Chif-Fil-A? And yes there was a MONSTER show up support, but it wasn't by a bunch of "Assault Weapon Toting" (not my terminology) radicals. It was a just a huge day (several actually) of people BUYING THEIR FOOD.

And apparently you choose not to recognize that WE . . . DON'T . . . . HAVE . . . . THAT ! ! ! ! ! And that our side will be - and are - demonized at every turn and opportunity that they get. And even when those opportunities DON'T arise they will create them. Hence, scaring the crap out of the uneducated DOESN'T HELP! IT TURNS PEOPLE OFF AND AWAY and plays into the hands of the Left. People weren't afraid of catching aids by simply walking into a Starbuck's. Catching a bullet on the other hand is easier for the uneducated to envision when you have scores of heavily armed individuals descending on an establishment with long guns, AR's, AK's and such exposed from every orifice, yucking it up, taking pictures and basically showing off like ridiculous little school kids with a bunch of new toys. REALLY?!?! Why this is so hard to understand by what are normally educated people TRULY escapes me.

 

[Roadie]

Let's remember that we have members here on INGO of all genders, beliefs, races, creeds, and sexuality. Please be mindful of what you post.

Thanks!