Southport Officer Shot

[HubertGummer]

Here is the probable cause affidavit.

http://www.wthr.com/sites/wthr.com/files/Jason Brown 72pc.pdf

Lt. Allan was shot 14 times.

I really hope there is no plea deal and the prosecutor goes for the dealth penalty. We really don't need this animal roaming the streets again.

 

[funeralweb]

There was an article, in the Star, newspaper, about how the "inmates" HAVE to deal with 100 degree heat .....

That WE the taxpayer should do something about it ......

At 6 feet below ground, the average temperature is a more tolerable 55-56 degrees. For those who deem that too cold, I'm all for wrapping them in a blanket.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I really hope there is no plea deal and the prosecutor goes for the dealth penalty. We really don't need this animal roaming the streets again.

There is always a plea deal.

 

[oldpink]

There is always a plea deal.

Hey, I'm all for giving him a free copter ride.

 

[T.Lex]

Dear INGO,

I have bad news. Based on the available public-source information, Tatboy McShooter is going to have a defense. Maybe even a legitimate one.

Involuntary Intoxication.
Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-41-3-5 | FindLaw

It is a defense that the person who engaged in the prohibited conduct did so while he was intoxicated, only if the intoxication resulted from the introduction of a substance into his body: (1) without his consent;  or

(2) when he did not know that the substance might cause intoxication.

For as long as I've been a lawyer, Indiana has had the rule that voluntary intoxication isn't a defense. Doesn't matter how drunk or high you got, if you started getting drunk or high intentionally, then everything that follows was intentional conduct. (Not every state is like that.)

But, we allow for situations where intoxication was not the result of an intentional act. Here's a relatively recent case on it.
https://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/08170902nhv.pdf

For the TL;DR crowd, Tatboy will (likely) be able to present evidence that he purchased marijuana, it was laced with something that he did not consent to or didn't know about, and it caused him to act this way.

Now, if there is competing evidence that he bought spice or some artificial buzz inducer, he may be able to argue that he didn't know whatever he bought would cause this reaction. The State would have to present evidence that he'd bought the substance before or was somehow otherwise familiar enough with the substance that he knew it could have this kind of effect.

Why is this important? Would an Indiana jury really find him not guilty because he's a doper? No, probably not.

This ability to present a legally-real defense is the fulcrum by which to lever a guilty plea and save him from the death penalty, particularly with the current Indy administrations. (I respect most of the men and women in the Marion County prosecutor's office, but we have to acknowledge political realities.)

As the good officer noted upthread, there is always a plea. (Not every county would be like that in this situation, but in Marion County, it is true.) The only question is whether it will be LWOP (Life Without Parole) or a term of years that allows him to get out someday.

 

[alabasterjar]

Anyone know if the governor order flags to be flown half staff?

Not at the state level yet. I'm in NE Indiana and put the flags down at my facility on Friday, but there had not been an official notification by the governor yet.

 

[Fargo]

Dear INGO,

I have bad news. Based on the available public-source information, Tatboy McShooter is going to have a defense. Maybe even a legitimate one.

Involuntary Intoxication.
Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-41-3-5 | FindLaw



For as long as I've been a lawyer, Indiana has had the rule that voluntary intoxication isn't a defense. Doesn't matter how drunk or high you got, if you started getting drunk or high intentionally, then everything that follows was intentional conduct. (Not every state is like that.)

But, we allow for situations where intoxication was not the result of an intentional act. Here's a relatively recent case on it.
https://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/08170902nhv.pdf

For the TL;DR crowd, Tatboy will (likely) be able to present evidence that he purchased marijuana, it was laced with something that he did not consent to or didn't know about, and it caused him to act this way.

Now, if there is competing evidence that he bought spice or some artificial buzz inducer, he may be able to argue that he didn't know whatever he bought would cause this reaction. The State would have to present evidence that he'd bought the substance before or was somehow otherwise familiar enough with the substance that he knew it could have this kind of effect.

Why is this important? Would an Indiana jury really find him not guilty because he's a doper? No, probably not.

This ability to present a legally-real defense is the fulcrum by which to lever a guilty plea and save him from the death penalty, particularly with the current Indy administrations. (I respect most of the men and women in the Marion County prosecutor's office, but we have to acknowledge political realities.)

As the good officer noted upthread, there is always a plea. (Not every county would be like that in this situation, but in Marion County, it is true.) The only question is whether it will be LWOP (Life Without Parole) or a term of years that allows him to get out someday.

I thought much of it, you said it. Plus, after the Overstreet decision came out I consider the death penalty to be functionally a dead letter in Indiana.

 

[T.Lex]

I understand about Overstreet, but keeping him on X row until he's competent isn't a terrible outcome.* Capital punishment is receding across the country, so its natural that Indiana would be carried with that momentum. I don't think the future is as bad, just more limited... more specific to certain terrible murders. Keep in mind, with the news carrying details on more and more cruel, dastardly crimes, people's natural outrage at "normal" murders diminishes. Things have to get REALLY bad to move the needle.

Its kinda one of those things that I hope there are no crimes bad enough to warrant the death penalty, while at the same time, I support its continued viability as a punishment.


*Last I heard, that was the plan.

 

[MarkC]

Dear INGO,

As the good officer noted upthread, there is always a plea. (Not every county would be like that in this situation, but in Marion County, it is true.) The only question is whether it will be LWOP (Life Without Parole) or a term of years that allows him to get out someday.

However, a term of years doesn't always mean the defendant is going to get out someday. For example, Orville Lynn Majors, the Vermillion County Hospital killer nurse, "only" got 360 years. With credit time, he only has to serve 180 years, and his earliest possible release date is 2177.

Admittedly, Majors' case wasn't a plea; he took it to trial, and lost.

On the other hand, it is unlikely that a defendant who (might) have a defense would take a plea that is, effectively, an LWOP.

 

[T.Lex]

On the other hand, it is unlikely that a defendant who (might) have a defense would take a plea that is, effectively, an LWOP.

The capital PDs I worked against took the long view; they knew that laws are malleable. Term of years was better than LWOP which is better than a death sentence. With a term of years, there's the opportunity to work legislatively for changes to pick away at the time, amelioration and all. Or a case that makes a PCR/sentence modification plausible.

 

[Spear Dane]

No illegal act should be able to serve as the basis for a defense of a more serious crime. If he had a really bad reaction to a new med he had taken 2 hours before, I could roll with that. A bad reaction from a substance he was not supposed to have to begin with does not fly.

 

[churchmouse]

No illegal act should be able to serve as the basis for a defense of a more serious crime. If he had a really bad reaction to a new med he had taken 2 hours before, I could roll with that. A bad reaction from a substance he was not supposed to have to begin with does not fly.

This^^^^^^^^^^

And choosing to stay out on the roads. Idiocy.

 

[2A_Tom]

My heart goes out to the parents of this young person (as much as I am sickened by his actions). He was shch a good boy (at some point in his life he was the apple of their eye).

I have children and grand children and I love them all, none of them are perfect. So far none of them have gone off the beam. In a world that has given up on the Church, family and love of country these tragedies are becoming far too common. I have had dissapointments, but whatever the matter my family is mine and I will love them until I die and into eternity.

I do not know his family life but I know that there is someone somewhere that is heartbroken over this, and may even be wrongly stigmatized.

I am in no way trying to absolve anyone of wrong diong, but for the grace of God this could have been one of ours.

I look at this picture with tears in my eyes.

 

[Trigger Time]

A email I got today from the IDHS says he was struck 11 times in the charging documents and that the scum bucket was charged with murder. The previous reports said 14 times. Apples to oranges but that makes it official. This is just terrible in every way

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

Still can't wrap my head around it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

My heart goes out to the parents of this young person (as much as I am sickened by his actions). He was shch a good boy (at some point in his life he was the apple of their eye).

I have children and grand children and I love them all, none of them are perfect. So far none of them have gone off the beam. In a world that has given up on the Church, family and love of country these tragedies are becoming far too common. I have had dissapointments, but whatever the matter my family is mine and I will love them until I die and into eternity.

I do not know his family life but I know that there is someone somewhere that is heartbroken over this, and may even be wrongly stigmatized.

I am in no way trying to absolve anyone of wrong diong, but for the grace of God this could have been one of ours.

I look at this picture with tears in my eyes.

You're joking, right?

 

[Benp]

My heart goes out to the parents of this young person (as much as I am sickened by his actions). He was shch a good boy (at some point in his life he was the apple of their eye).
I have children and grand children and I love them all, none of them are perfect. So far none of them have gone off the beam. In a world that has given up on the Church, family and love of country these tragedies are becoming far too common. I have had disappointments, but whatever the matter my family is mine and I will love them until I die and into eternity.
I do not know his family life but I know that there is someone somewhere that is heartbroken over this, and may even be wrongly stigmatized.
I am in no way trying to absolve anyone of wrong doing, but for the grace of God this could have been one of ours.
I look at this picture with tears in my eyes.

I agree with you. This is a tragedy for all those involved!

 

[Kutnupe14]

I agree with you. This is a tragedy for all those involved!

No, it's a tragedy for the officer and his family. None of this "all those involved" nonsense. I have seen no reason why I should sympathize with anyone other than the officer, his family his PD, and those that cared about him. If you raise a doped up murdering dirtbag, or don't because you're absent, you get no sympathy from me.

 

[oldpink]

No, it's a tragedy for the officer and his family. None of this "all those involved" nonsense. I have seen no reason why I should sympathize with anyone other than the officer, his family his PD, and those that cared about him. If you raise a doped up murdering dirtbag, or don't because you're absent, you get no sympathy from me.

Bingo

 

[churchmouse]

No, it's a tragedy for the officer and his family. None of this "all those involved" nonsense. I have seen no reason why I should sympathize with anyone other than the officer, his family his PD, and those that cared about him. If you raise a doped up murdering dirtbag, or don't because you're absent, you get no sympathy from me.

I tend to lean this way.
Dopers are the best at leading dual lives.
They can manipulate those around them to believe about anything if those around them are willing.
Listening to the interviews of those who knew him stating he was a great kid.......No ****ing way a great kids pulls some **** like this. There is something deeper/darker at play here. He had pulled something that set this all off. No way in hell I can see it any other way.

Yes, he had a Momma. I am sure she is hurt.
Compared to the loss suffered on the other end of dip****s gun her hurt bears no measure with me.
From personal experiences and loss my tolerance for drug/alcohol/thuggish activity's are in the negative. Far below zero tolerances. Even if I tried I doubt I can find any compassion for this POS.

Blue Falcon, I do not doubt you are a good and Godly man.