South Shore train to close indefinitely because of Congressional mandate

[jedi]

OK, they are raising rates. Those annual pass prices or monthly?

I think they are bluffing....wonder how much their ridership went down with the last hike?

Monthly rates. You can buy monthly or one rides.
They don't release number of riders info so no idea how much they lost. Its actually been much more carefree not using them anymore

 

[Leo]

More likely the legislation was aimed at forcing smaller lines to sell to bigger ones at bargain basement prices?

Always follow the money.

Warren Buffet has major rail road interests, like the rail line that will not be a monopoly if the keystone pipeline gets built.

 

[tammyshcmidt]

The historic South Shore rail line that connects Northwest Indiana to Chicago will close indefinitely beginning January 1st, 2016. That is the date in which the U.S. Congress is imposing a massive system upgrade called "Positive Train Control," or PTC. The mandate will cost the locally-run railway a whopping $120,000,000 to implement, far surpassing its $18M annual budget.

The only hope for the train to remain open is for the U.S. Congress to grant the South Shore an "extension" on the deadline of its onerous mandate.

South Shore Line and local leaders react to commuter train closing - Fox 28: South Bend

I do wonder how they will ever make this work?

 

[rambone]

Here's the voting record for H.R. 2095 (110th): Railroad Safety Enhancement Act of 2008. The bill passed the House 337-38, with the support of the vast majority of both parties.

The congressmen representing the South Shore region at the time, Rep. Pete Visclosky (D-IN1) and Rep. Joe Donnelly (D-IN2), both voted yes.

President George W. Bush signed the 315-page bill into law on October 16, 2008.

 

[tammyshcmidt]

Well, I guess they will make it work by burdening future generations... all in the name of keeping them safe on the rails of course.

 

[1775usmarine]

They wont shut them down. It will just be federalized.
Do you know why?
Cause the railroad pension system has a lot of money and they do not pay into social secuirty. The feds need this money to keep ss going. By fedralizing the trains they can take those pensions and issue ious just like ssa has.

Socialism at its finest. Jealous of what others have and want to take and give to someone else. That day won't come where they touch my RR.

 

[EMDX6043]

Almost every railroad is jumping on the "we're shutting down" bandwagon...the PTC mandate was just a knee-jerk reaction (as usual) to prove that they're "doing something" about safety.

Remember, it can only prevent certain incidents if it's cut-in and functioning properly. Anything after that (and EVEN WITH PTC) falls on the experience, attention and responsibility of the Locomotive Engineer.

I'm a professional Class I "Train Service" Locomotive Engineer and No, they better not touch my RRB either.

Dave

 

[Bill B]

They wont shut them down. It will just be federalized.
Do you know why?
Cause the railroad pension system has a lot of money and they do not pay into social secuirty. The feds need this money to keep ss going. By fedralizing the trains they can take those pensions and issue ious just like ssa has.

I wish they would federalize the RR's. Look at Amtrak, railroad retirement, 401k, and .gov pension and healthcare. Granted, they make $1 less an hour than private, but so what? They make up for it in overtime.

 

[Bill B]

Monthly rates. You can buy monthly or one rides.
They don't release number of riders info so no idea how much they lost. Its actually been much more carefree not using them anymore

Nationally, rail transit only receives about 30% of their revenue from the fare box, the rest is taxpayer paid.

 

[jedi]

I wish they would federalize the RR's. Look at Amtrak, railroad retirement, 401k, and .gov pension and healthcare. Granted, they make $1 less an hour than private, but so what? They make up for it in overtime.

you know if they federalize it they will take that RRB funds and "put it into" the SSA cabinet.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Don't take this as argumentative; that's not how I mean it. I have to wonder when people say, re: the gov't, "They better not....(whatever)": Why? Why had they "better not"? That is, if they do, what are you gonna do about it?

Don't misunderstand me, I hope they don't mess with anyone. You've worked and earned what you have coming, and deserve to collect it. I just don't see an alternative for the individual when the weight and force of gov't regulation decides you have something it wants. "A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have." --Former President Thomas Jefferson

(And no, this is not a call for revolution, just a recognition that even if you did go to that length, the end result is that they still don't have to pay you, because you would be dead or imprisoned.)

Blessings,
Bill

Almost every railroad is jumping on the "we're shutting down" bandwagon...the PTC mandate was just a knee-jerk reaction (as usual) to prove that they're "doing something" about safety.

Remember, it can only prevent certain incidents if it's cut-in and functioning properly. Anything after that (and EVEN WITH PTC) falls on the experience, attention and responsibility of the Locomotive Engineer.

I'm a professional Class I "Train Service" Locomotive Engineer and No, they better not touch my RRB either.

Dave

 

[jedi]

BOR, i think bill b and i went down this path about 2 years ago. Its basically the rr workers will strike if their pension is touched. Problem is when they are all federlized it will be too late to strike. Not to mention this needs to be done in such a way that its them, greedy fed. RRB workers vs the need,of all tthose on disablity,and retirement funds. After all all those old worker also put into the system juat likethe rrb workers.

Tjere are more ss benefiaey then rr ones so the masses wont notice that its unfair. The people demand their cut of ss and if rrb has funds,then that is where the ss benedits should come from is all the masses know.

 

[Hoosier8]

The historic South Shore rail line that connects Northwest Indiana to Chicago will close indefinitely beginning January 1st, 2016. That is the date in which the U.S. Congress is imposing a massive system upgrade called "Positive Train Control," or PTC. The mandate will cost the locally-run railway a whopping $120,000,000 to implement, far surpassing its $18M annual budget.

The only hope for the train to remain open is for the U.S. Congress to grant the South Shore an "extension" on the deadline of its onerous mandate.

South Shore Line and local leaders react to commuter train closing - Fox 28: South Bend

What is funny is that PTC is based on outdated technology. Heck, you could probably get some college kid to write an app that would work with a cell phone to do as much if not better.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I do wonder how they will ever make this work?

That's what we get for allowing the notion to fester that everytime there is a death or injury or disaster SOMEBODY MUST MAKE A NEW LAW TO FIX IT.

 

[Bill B]

What is funny is that PTC is based on outdated technology. Heck, you could probably get some college kid to write an app that would work with a cell phone to do as much if not better.

Not trying to be argumentative, but which particular "outdated" technology is being used in PTC? Military grade gps? computerized locomotive controls? distributed power? the cell/220hz radio/sat radio redundant comms? the computerized dispatching? the electronic track warrants for Maint. of Way? Or the software that makes it all work together? There's a lot that is going into it, not to mention that the infrastructure isn't there either. My company has spent a ton of money just on getting accurate gps maps of every foot of mainline track.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I get that, Jedi. I was thinking we were talking about people who are already retired. (Makes it kinda hard to strike, and for those still working, striking only works if no one gets a court order forcing you back to work, something I can see the Fed doing for an "essential federal service".)

It's a frustrating situation even from the outside looking in. I can only imagine what it must be like to live it.

Blessings,
Bill

BOR, i think bill b and i went down this path about 2 years ago. Its basically the rr workers will strike if their pension is touched. Problem is when they are all federlized it will be too late to strike. Not to mention this needs to be done in such a way that its them, greedy fed. RRB workers vs the need,of all tthose on disablity,and retirement funds. After all all those old worker also put into the system juat likethe rrb workers.

Tjere are more ss benefiaey then rr ones so the masses wont notice that its unfair. The people demand their cut of ss and if rrb has funds,then that is where the ss benedits should come from is all the masses know.

 

[Bill B]

I get that, Jedi. I was thinking we were talking about people who are already retired. (Makes it kinda hard to strike, and for those still working, striking only works if no one gets a court order forcing you back to work, something I can see the Fed doing for an "essential federal service".)

It's a frustrating situation even from the outside looking in. I can only imagine what it must be like to live it.

Blessings,
Bill

Under the Railway Labor Act a strike is technically possible, but only after a long series of steps. In reality, if no agreement is reached congress can (and does, quite often) impose their own settlement. The railroads and airlines are the only industries covered by the act, but the President and congress almost never get involved in airline labor disputes and they are involved in every railroad contract.

link to cliff notes http://www.pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html

 

[EMDX6043]

Don't take this as argumentative; that's not how I mean it. I have to wonder when people say, re: the gov't, "They better not....(whatever)": Why? Why had they "better not"? That is, if they do, what are you gonna do about it?

Don't misunderstand me, I hope they don't mess with anyone. You've worked and earned what you have coming, and deserve to collect it. I just don't see an alternative for the individual when the weight and force of gov't regulation decides you have something it wants. "A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have." --Former President Thomas Jefferson

(And no, this is not a call for revolution, just a recognition that even if you did go to that length, the end result is that they still don't have to pay you, because you would be dead or imprisoned.)

Blessings,
Bill

I say that to express my opposition to the idea...almost as a rhetorical comment. In the end, they (collectively, the powers that be) will do whatever they want, but I pay union dues and am highly involved-currently holding several elected positions, so I hope that the higher ups are committed to keeping our best interests in mind as we are at the local level. Whether it all matters, only time will tell.

Also, the notion of "nationalization" is laughable. I had to refamiliarize myself with the history, so I googled "United States Railroad Administration". It's been done before and I highly doubt it will happen again.

I'm sure I just opened another can of worms...so anyways, back to the whole PTC thing...

Dave

 

[bonkers1919]

More likely the legislation was aimed at forcing smaller lines to sell to bigger ones at bargain basement prices?

Always follow the money.

I worked for many years for a Class 1 RR. They want nothing to do with any pickups or delivery's to a customer. Think UPS OR FEDEX. The smaller RR's go and get the small mom & pop store crap, and bring it to a major RR yard. The Class 1 RR simply put the train together and send it down the road. This way the Class 1 RR is point to point and then let the smaller RR deliver the goods to the customer.

Class 1 RR make over 2 billion a year, CSX, Norfolk Southern, UP, etc.

 

[Bill B]

More likely the legislation was aimed at forcing smaller lines to sell to bigger ones at bargain basement prices?

Always follow the money.

I worked for many years for a Class 1 RR. They want nothing to do with any pickups or delivery's to a customer. Think UPS OR FEDEX. The smaller RR's go and get the small mom & pop store crap, and bring it to a major RR yard. The Class 1 RR simply put the train together and send it down the road. This way the Class 1 RR is point to point and then let the smaller RR deliver the goods to the customer.

Class 1 RR make over 2 billion a year, CSX, Norfolk Southern, UP, etc.

In addition, some of the "smaller" railroads are owned by the big ones. Locally the Indiana Harbor Belt is owned by Norfolk Southern, CSX, and one of the Canadian railroads. The Belt Railway of Chicago is owned by Union Pacific, BNSF, NS, and two others (I forget which). Throw in the fact that other little railroads are owned by umbrella companies (google Genessee and Wyoming) and there really aren't many independent small railroads that would be suitable for acquisition.