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  • Denny347

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    13,559
    149
    Napganistan
    Thank you for this insight. These Federal grants are basically bribing local agencies -- with our own redistributed tax dollars -- to do something that is inefficient, ineffective, and (in my humble opinion) totally invasive and against the Bill of Rights.

    If the Feds have an interest in catching drunks, then local beat cops have an interest in international diplomacy! In other words, it isn't their freaking job!! Its a ruse, a trick.

    What the Feds DO have an interest in, is conditioning the public to checkpoints... Both the police enforcing them and the public getting violated by them. We are slowly and steadily being taught that emptying your pockets for police and giving up bio-samples is part of a normal day in the new America. Its slave training, plain and simple.

    The Federal Government is an out of control, tyrannical entity, consuming our liberty and local sovereignty using bribes of borrowed money. We need all levels of government to quit selling us out!
    You know why the Feds care? MADD. They are an ENORMOUS lobby that have pushed their will to the highest level. I understand where they came from...mothers that were against drunk driving. However, they have morphed into a special interest group that would re-instate prohibition if they could I believe. Don't get me wrong, I loved working DUI taskforce. We would go out and hunt for drunk/dangerous drivers. I find drunks because they do not need to be behind the wheel (notwithstanding the prevalent opinion here). They are not always bad people, most are just regular people who made a poor choice. What I hated about it was the money aspect of it. Say I would work 6 hours of DUI after my regular 8.5 hrs shift. In that 6 hrs, for every hour I was not dealing with a DUI, I was to write 3 tickets. I was to turn in copies of those tickets every night as proof. So if I had 2 DUI's that took 2 hrs each (that is being quite productive) but had 2 hrs of down time, I would get chewed out if I did not have 6 tickets to turn in, regardless of how productive my DUI hunt was. They said they wanted to make sure we work stopping cars looking for drunks (I can understand that). My question was why can I not write warnings as proof of activity and not tickets, still doing the same work but not bringing down the hammer to drivers if I so choose. The response was that we do not give warnings...only tickets. They would yell at us for writing State code rather than local code on the tickets. If I wrote a ticket using the local code, the City gets the funds. If I wrote a ticket using State codes, the State gets the funds...I never wrote City codes ;). Sadly, I no longer go drunk hunting. The fun was sucked out of it by the number crunchers. I was/am still quite good at DUI's. I still find a few here and there on day shift.
     

    dross

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 27, 2009
    8,699
    48
    Monument, CO
    You know why the Feds care? MADD. They are an ENORMOUS lobby that have pushed their will to the highest level. I understand where they came from...mothers that were against drunk driving. However, they have morphed into a special interest group that would re-instate prohibition if they could I believe. Don't get me wrong, I loved working DUI taskforce. We would go out and hunt for drunk/dangerous drivers. I find drunks because they do not need to be behind the wheel (notwithstanding the prevalent opinion here). They are not always bad people, most are just regular people who made a poor choice. What I hated about it was the money aspect of it. Say I would work 6 hours of DUI after my regular 8.5 hrs shift. In that 6 hrs, for every hour I was not dealing with a DUI, I was to write 3 tickets. I was to turn in copies of those tickets every night as proof. So if I had 2 DUI's that took 2 hrs each (that is being quite productive) but had 2 hrs of down time, I would get chewed out if I did not have 6 tickets to turn in, regardless of how productive my DUI hunt was. They said they wanted to make sure we work stopping cars looking for drunks (I can understand that). My question was why can I not write warnings as proof of activity and not tickets, still doing the same work but not bringing down the hammer to drivers if I so choose. The response was that we do not give warnings...only tickets. They would yell at us for writing State code rather than local code on the tickets. If I wrote a ticket using the local code, the City gets the funds. If I wrote a ticket using State codes, the State gets the funds...I never wrote City codes ;). Sadly, I no longer go drunk hunting. The fun was sucked out of it by the number crunchers. I was/am still quite good at DUI's. I still find a few here and there on day shift.

    Not directed at you Denny, but this post just makes me sad.
     

    Mr. Habib

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 4, 2009
    3,804
    149
    Somewhere else
    Thank you for this insight. These Federal grants are basically bribing local agencies -- with our own redistributed tax dollars -- to do something that is inefficient, ineffective, and (in my humble opinion) totally invasive and against the Bill of Rights.

    If the Feds have an interest in catching drunks, then local beat cops have an interest in international diplomacy! In other words, it isn't their freaking job!! Its a ruse, a trick.

    What the Feds DO have an interest in, is conditioning the public to checkpoints... Both the police enforcing them and the public getting violated by them. We are slowly and steadily being taught that emptying your pockets for police and giving up bio-samples is part of a normal day in the new America. Its slave training, plain and simple.

    The Federal Government is an out of control, tyrannical entity, consuming our liberty and local sovereignty using bribes of borrowed money. We need all levels of government to quit selling us out!

    Ding Ding Ding...We have a winner. They do exactly the same thing around here with seat belt violations. I have LEOs friends around here tell me that the local dept. only gets about $1.50 from each minor traffic ticket that they write. Seat belt tickets cost $25.00 each. The dept keeps the entire amount for "training". Guess what all of the checkpoints around here are for. Why bother patrolling for more serious violations when you can sit and collect free ammo money.
     

    serpicostraight

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 14, 2009
    1,951
    36
    You know why the Feds care? MADD. They are an ENORMOUS lobby that have pushed their will to the highest level. I understand where they came from...mothers that were against drunk driving. However, they have morphed into a special interest group that would re-instate prohibition if they could I believe. Don't get me wrong, I loved working DUI taskforce. We would go out and hunt for drunk/dangerous drivers. I find drunks because they do not need to be behind the wheel (notwithstanding the prevalent opinion here). They are not always bad people, most are just regular people who made a poor choice. What I hated about it was the money aspect of it. Say I would work 6 hours of DUI after my regular 8.5 hrs shift. In that 6 hrs, for every hour I was not dealing with a DUI, I was to write 3 tickets. I was to turn in copies of those tickets every night as proof. So if I had 2 DUI's that took 2 hrs each (that is being quite productive) but had 2 hrs of down time, I would get chewed out if I did not have 6 tickets to turn in, regardless of how productive my DUI hunt was. They said they wanted to make sure we work stopping cars looking for drunks (I can understand that). My question was why can I not write warnings as proof of activity and not tickets, still doing the same work but not bringing down the hammer to drivers if I so choose. The response was that we do not give warnings...only tickets. They would yell at us for writing State code rather than local code on the tickets. If I wrote a ticket using the local code, the City gets the funds. If I wrote a ticket using State codes, the State gets the funds...I never wrote City codes ;). Sadly, I no longer go drunk hunting. The fun was sucked out of it by the number crunchers. I was/am still quite good at DUI's. I still find a few here and there on day shift.
    madd has turned into a nazi regime. they have cost us more freedom than most people know. they always yell about drunk drivers but thier southwest regional leader got a dui. but when the courts found out who she was they dropped charges. didnt look good for a member of madd to get a dui even though she was in fact drunk and driving.
     

    Kirk Freeman

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Mar 9, 2008
    48,279
    113
    Lafayette, Indiana
    Nazi regime? At least the Nazis had some sense of order. MADD is more communist as it wants to control every fiber of your being and makes absolutely no sense.

    http://www.drunkdrivinglawyers.com/...ights/how-madd-makes-money-on-your-dui-arrest

    they always yell about drunk drivers but thier southwest regional leader got a dui. but when the courts found out who she was they dropped charges

    She was from Florida (Gainesville), not the southwest.

    maddpresidentdui_620x350.jpg
     
    Last edited:

    Keyser Soze

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 29, 2010
    678
    16
    I personally don't agree with checkpoints but since they were given the thumbs up the officers did nothing wrong. Reason being; As soon as they failed to roll down the window as requested they began obstructing, which is a crime and a reason for the officer to request ID.

    Its not like checkpoints yield tons of drunks either. ISP will have nights where they only nab 4 or 5....AND that's in bloomington.

    Get rid of checkpoints. Make the punishment so harsh for DUI people stop out of fear.
     

    hornadylnl

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Nov 19, 2008
    21,505
    63
    Also, Bisard's fear of punishment sure prevented him from being drunk on duty, driving recklessly and killing an innocent person, didnt it? He's still a free man acting as an agent of the state, correct?
     

    Denny347

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    13,559
    149
    Napganistan
    Also, Bisard's fear of punishment sure prevented him from being drunk on duty, driving recklessly and killing an innocent person, didnt it? He's still a free man acting as an agent of the state, correct?
    No he is out on bond awaiting trial. He is suspended w/o pay (no police powers) pending the outcome of the trial. People drive drunk because they think they are fine to drive. They do not notice they are swerving all over the road.
     

    Rookie

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    14   0   0
    Sep 22, 2008
    18,194
    113
    Kokomo
    I personally don't agree with checkpoints but since they were given the thumbs up the officers did nothing wrong. Reason being; As soon as they failed to roll down the window as requested they began obstructing, which is a crime and a reason for the officer to request ID.



    Watch it again. His window is down far enough to be able to communicate. Question. Where does it state that I have to produce identification on request?
     
    Last edited:

    Keyser Soze

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 29, 2010
    678
    16
    Watch it again. His window is down far enough to be able to communicate. Question. Where does it state that I have to produce identification on request?

    34-28-5-3.5
    there ya go some dispute on whether the driver and passenger need to show identification. Driver for certain.
     

    Keyser Soze

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 29, 2010
    678
    16
    Also, Bisard's fear of punishment sure prevented him from being drunk on duty, driving recklessly and killing an innocent person, didnt it? He's still a free man acting as an agent of the state, correct?

    No. He is not acting as an agent of the state. Bishard will escape criminal charges because of a technicality. Greasy DUI lawyers get regular citizens off the hook everyday and no one seems to make much fuss.

    I agree. Punishment for public officials should be so severe they behave out of fear.

    Its really simple. Your either a good dude or bad dude. Bad dudes cause trouble and ruin it for everyone. You can make a million laws but bad dudes will always be bad dudes. You cant change bad dudes. You can only control them. You control them with fear.

    How many people would rob, murder molest if there were no consequences? Some people wont...it simply is not in there nature to do such things. One could make the argument "if someone robs me I dont need the state to baby sit me I can handle it myself" This is how things were. We went from policing ourselfs then to tithings..shire reeve...ect...

    The problem now...there are no consequences. Its a farming system....catch and release. Pay this pay that don't do it again .Until you run out of money then you will end up doing time. If people knew they would be facing hard time or hard labor for their crimes I guarantee there would be a rapid reduction. Look at cuba....granted it takes nothing to be "convicted" in cuba. If we combined our due process with their punishment...Pefecto.
     

    ElsiePeaRN

    Expert
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 18, 2011
    940
    16
    Eastern Indiana
    I personally don't agree with checkpoints but since they were given the thumbs up the officers did nothing wrong. Reason being; As soon as they failed to roll down the window as requested they began obstructing, which is a crime and a reason for the officer to request ID.

    In theory and I suppose in general, this sounds like a good argument but in practice it is incorrect within the context of this particular checkpoint. The driver would have been asked for ID if he had opened the window and been very cooperative and showed no sign of intoxication.

    You and others seem to be missing the primary point here that they set up this checkpoint specifically to check licenses/ID in addition to screening for DUI. Do you all actually support this practice? Are roadblocks for ID checks acceptable to you simply because they also include DUI screenings? There is no statute in California law that allows for stopping someone for ID checks if they are not suspected of a crime. Period.
     

    ElsiePeaRN

    Expert
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 18, 2011
    940
    16
    Eastern Indiana
    34-28-5-3.5
    there ya go some dispute on whether the driver and passenger need to show identification. Driver for certain.

    Do I get a case of ammo because you quoted Indiana law on a California case? :D

    Edited to add-- besides, even the Indiana code states it must be for an infraction:

    IC 34-28-5-3.5
    Refusal to identify self
    Sec. 3.5. A person who knowingly or intentionally refuses to provide either the person's:
    (1) name, address, and date of birth; or
    (2) driver's license, if in the person's possession;
    to a law enforcement officer who has stopped the person for an infraction or ordinance violation commits a Class C misdemeanor.


    Driving down a road where police have set up a checkpoint is not an infraction.
     
    Last edited:

    hornadylnl

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Nov 19, 2008
    21,505
    63
    No. He is not acting as an agent of the state. Bishard will escape criminal charges because of a technicality. Greasy DUI lawyers get regular citizens off the hook everyday and no one seems to make much fuss.

    I agree. Punishment for public officials should be so severe they behave out of fear.

    Its really simple. Your either a good dude or bad dude. Bad dudes cause trouble and ruin it for everyone. You can make a million laws but bad dudes will always be bad dudes. You cant change bad dudes. You can only control them. You control them with fear.

    How many people would rob, murder molest if there were no consequences? Some people wont...it simply is not in there nature to do such things. One could make the argument "if someone robs me I dont need the state to baby sit me I can handle it myself" This is how things were. We went from policing ourselfs then to tithings..shire reeve...ect...

    The problem now...there are no consequences. Its a farming system....catch and release. Pay this pay that don't do it again .Until you run out of money then you will end up doing time. If people knew they would be facing hard time or hard labor for their crimes I guarantee there would be a rapid reduction. Look at cuba....granted it takes nothing to be "convicted" in cuba. If we combined our due process with their punishment...Pefecto.

    In regard to Bisard's technicality. Is it SOP to track down drivers in stationary vehicles who are involved in chain reaction accidents hours after the fact and give them a breathalyzer tests? Somebody knew he was drunk and they were looking for a scapegoat.
     
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