Sobriety Checkpoint leads to Forcible Extraction

[rjstew317]

So does working a 12 hour day and driving home tired.

The real question is how much alcohol is required for an individual to be an unsafe driver.

You can't answer that question. Nobody can. So I say leave it up to the individual and leave him responsible for the consequences.

well, guess I don't need to answer that for you, someone already has

 

[steveh_131]

WHAT???
You went to a Law Enforcement Forum and you were surprised that the Members there support Law Enforcement???
I suppose you'd be surprised if the INGO Members supported the Second Amendement too?
Unbelievable!!

We support the 2nd amendment. We don't support criminal abuse of the 2nd amendment. Believe it or not, there is a difference.

So, should people not try to make things right or just accept bad laws because "life is not fair"?

Bad laws are good laws to you when you're the one with the boot on someone's neck.

 

[steveh_131]

well, guess I don't need to answer that for you, someone already has

He basically answered it by saying "I have no idea, therefore I will also throw people in prison who were perfectly safe to drive."

Wow, what a great answer.

 

[INGunGuy]

WHAT???
You went to a Law Enforcement Forum and you were surprised that the Members there support Law Enforcement???
I suppose you'd be surprised if the INGO Members supported the Second Amendement too?
Unbelievable!!

NO the thing that is so strange is how NO MATTER WHAT they would NEVER think that a LEO could EVER do wrong. Dont ever dare to question their authority because that is calling for a nice JBT smackdown.

I also think your totally wrong when it comes to INGO and supporting the 2nd Amendment, I would think that MOST people on INGO would NOT support a child-molesting murder owning a gun. The difference is that the local LEO forum thinks that anyone that would dare offer a differing viewpoint is off their rocker and WRONG, period, exclamation point. So yea it is pretty unbelievable...

INGunGuy

 

[rjstew317]

He basically answered it by saying "I have no idea, therefore I will also throw people in prison who were perfectly safe to drive."

Wow, what a great answer.

.08. here, maybe if i make it bigger you can read it
.08

 

[steveh_131]

.08. here, maybe if i make it bigger you can read it
.08

.08 is the exact limit at which every single individual, regardless of size, shape or tolerance, is unable to drive a vehicle safely?

Seriously?

 

[rjstew317]

.08 is the exact limit at which every single individual, regardless of size, shape or tolerance, is unable to drive a vehicle safely?

Seriously?

and again I say, if you are impairing your own judgment by ingesting alcohol, how can you judge if you're safe to drive. if people had the ability to do this effectively, we wouldn't have these laws in the first place. it has been determined, through research and testing, that .08 is the threshold for the majority of people, therefore the law was made to fit the majority. sorry if you don't like, buy a small island somewhere and create your own set of rules.

just because you bury you head in the sand, doesn't mean the facts go away.

 

[steveh_131]

and again I say, if you are impairing your own judgment by ingesting alcohol, how can you judge if you're safe to drive. if people had the ability to do this effectively, we wouldn't have these laws in the first place. it has been determined, through research and testing, that .08 is the threshold for the majority of people, therefore the law was made to fit the majority. sorry if you don't like, buy a small island somewhere and create your own set of rules.

None of this changes the fact that you are imprisoning people who were completely unimpaired and safe to drive.

Enjoy your nanny state, guys.

First they came for the drunks,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a drunk.

Then they came for the speeders,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a speeder.

Then they came for the texters,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a texter.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Someday it will be something you care about.

 

[rjstew317]

None of this changes the fact that you are imprisoning people who were completely unimpaired and safe to drive.

Enjoy your nanny state, guys.



Someday it will be something you care about.

steveh_131 meet reality, reality meet steveh_131. you two should get acquainted

 

[1032JBT]

None of this changes the fact that you are imprisoning people who were completely unimpaired and safe to drive.

Enjoy your nanny state, guys.



Someday it will be something you care about.

And that is where YOU are wrong.........in order to be arrested in Indiana you must show impairment of THOUGHT and ACTION. Thats what the field sobriety tests are for...........and the PBT is the last test so failures are not based on that.


And before they are called the normal "stupid human tricks" like it is so often done, they do actually work. I have ran my daughter through them when she was 8..........and was able to not only understand them but pass them. If you can't (not you, but anyone in general) pass them then you shouldn't be driving anyway.

Flame away

 

[grimor]

and again I say, if you are impairing your own judgment by ingesting alcohol, how can you judge if you're safe to drive. if people had the ability to do this effectively, we wouldn't have these laws in the first place. it has been determined, through research and testing, that .08 is the threshold for the majority of people, therefore the law was made to fit the majority. sorry if you don't like, buy a small island somewhere and create your own set of rules.

just because you bury you head in the sand, doesn't mean the facts go away.

the law was made to make money, many many people who have a BAC of .08 can operate just fine. Many people with BAC of .05 can't drive. just like they can't drive sober. it's very easy to reach .08 with casual drinking that doesn't even leave you buzzed.

 

[grimor]

And that is where YOU are wrong.........in order to be arrested in Indiana you must show impairment of THOUGHT and ACTION. Thats what the field sobriety tests are for...........and the PBT is the last test so failures are not based on that.


And before they are called the normal "stupid human tricks" like it is so often done, they do actually work. I have ran my daughter through them when she was 8..........and was able to not only understand them but pass them. If you can't (not you, but anyone in general) pass them then you shouldn't be driving anyway.

Flame away

so someone with an inner ear infection that affects their balance and can't pass a field sobriety test shouldn't drive sitting?

 

[UncleMike]

steveh_131 meet reality, reality meet steveh_131. you two should get acquainted

Not a chance!

"The Flubber is strong in this one"

 

[steveh_131]

And that is where YOU are wrong.........in order to be arrested in Indiana you must show impairment of THOUGHT and ACTION. Thats what the field sobriety tests are for...........and the PBT is the last test so failures are not based on that.


And before they are called the normal "stupid human tricks" like it is so often done, they do actually work. I have ran my daughter through them when she was 8..........and was able to not only understand them but pass them. If you can't (not you, but anyone in general) pass them then you shouldn't be driving anyway.

Flame away

Good call. Nothing more objective than a field sobriety test.

 

[samot]

thats pretty ****ed up ! whats even better is the people that get on here & act like its OK

 

[1032JBT]

the law was made to make money, many many people who have a BAC of .08 can operate just fine. Many people with BAC of .05 can't drive. just like they can't drive sober. it's very easy to reach .08 with casual drinking that doesn't even leave you buzzed.

And those who can't drive sober shouldn't be driving either

so someone with an inner ear infection that affects their balance and can't pass a field sobriety test shouldn't drive sitting?

I have a long long history with inner ear infections and have even blown an eardrum due to one........and if it is that bad that it is causing me balance issues (ACTION) and not allowing me to process simple things like I normally would be able to do absent the ear infection (THOUGHT) then no........I shouldn't be driving and I don't when I am like that.

Good call. Nothing more objective than a field sobriety test.

When they are done in accordence to how the training was taught per NHTSA, then yes they are very objective and they do work. I'm not going to sit here and say that EVERY Officer everytime does it the way they were trained to do in the certificaton class............but I will say that when they don't they are wrong. I have let plenty of people go that were over the legal limit because they didn't show me the clues during the SFST's when they later tested over on a PBT. As I said before, when they are done properly, as they are most of the time, then yes.........they are objective and they do work.

 

[steveh_131]

When they are done in accordence to how the training was taught per NHTSA, then yes they are very objective and they do work. I'm not going to sit here and say that EVERY Officer everytime does it the way they were trained to do in the certificaton class............but I will say that when they don't they are wrong. I have let plenty of people go that were over the legal limit because they didn't show me the clues during the SFST's when they later tested over on a PBT. As I said before, when they are done properly, as they are most of the time, then yes.........they are objective and they do work.

I can't tell you how thrilled I am to have my freedom decided at your whim.

 

[Denny347]

So does working a 12 hour day and driving home tired.

The real question is how much alcohol is required for an individual to be an unsafe driver.

You can't answer that question. Nobody can. So I say leave it up to the individual and leave him responsible for the consequences.

You do realize that there are 2 OWI charges when making an arrest.

IC 9-30-5-1
Class C misdemeanor; defense
Sec. 1. (a) A person who operates a vehicle with an alcohol concentration equivalent to at least eight-hundredths (0.08) gram of alcohol but less than fifteen-hundredths (0.15) gram of alcohol per:
(1) one hundred (100) milliliters of the person's blood; or
(2) two hundred ten (210) liters of the person's breath;
commits a Class C misdemeanor.
(b) A person who operates a vehicle with an alcohol concentration equivalent to at least fifteen-hundredths (0.15) gram of alcohol per:
(1) one hundred (100) milliliters of the person's blood; or
(2) two hundred ten (210) liters of the person's breath;
commits a Class A misdemeanor.
(c) A person who operates a vehicle with a controlled substance listed in schedule I or II of IC 35-48-2 or its metabolite in the person's body commits a Class C misdemeanor.
(d) It is a defense to subsection (c) that the accused person consumed the controlled substance under a valid prescription or order of a practitioner (as defined in IC 35-48-1) who acted in the course of the practitioner's professional practice.
As added by P.L.2-1991, SEC.18. Amended by P.L.33-1997, SEC.7; P.L.266-1999, SEC.2; P.L.1-2000, SEC.6; P.L.1-2000, SEC.7; P.L.175-2001, SEC.5.
IC 9-30-5-2
Class A misdemeanor
Sec. 2. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b), a person who operates a vehicle while intoxicated commits a Class C misdemeanor.
(b) An offense described in subsection (a) is a Class A misdemeanor if the person operates a vehicle in a manner that endangers a person.

IC 9-30-5-1 covers the "per se" law...BAC results. IC 9-30-5-2 is just OWI regardless of BAC result. I charge with both if I have driving behavior and a BAC result. No BAC result and I can still charge with the OWI. I can arrest for OWI with a BAC as low as .04 if the driving behavior and SFST results point to it. SOOO impairment is person dependent. However, whether you realize it or not, you are impaired sufficiently at a .08 that it is the presumptive limit. You may be able to get used to the impairment so you can convince yourself that you are 100% A-OK to drive. That doesn't change the chemistry happening which will impair reaction times, vision, hand-eye coordination, balance, all the things that make a driver dangerous on the road.

 

[steveh_131]

You do realize that there are 2 OWI charges when making an arrest. misdemeanor if the person operates a vehicle in a manner that endangers a person.

Wow. These laws are worse than I thought.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[jsharmon7]

Wow. These laws are worse than I thought.

Thanks for the clarification.

You should change them then.