So yeah im thinking about fighting authority.....

[thompal]

I'd be thinking and researching before you start another thread OP.

I'm kind of embarassed for you. I think the rest of us law abiding gun owners have enough of a negative image as it is. Not for nothing - some people that like firearms lack forethought.

I'm not embarrassed at all. There are really only three ways to get laws thrown out or overturned: mounting a successful challenge through the appeals process, jury nullification, or convincing legislators to come up with something better.

You can't count on jury nullification, because judges and prosecutors regularly tell juries that they are legally obligated to convict if the facts fit the law.

If you discount outright the tactic of civil disobedience, then you ignore the fact that it was used quite successfully by people from Rosa Parks, M.L. King, Ghandi, and several thousand draft resistors during 'Nam. Yes, they all spent time in jail, and a lot of them spent a lot of money fighting legal battles, but eventually laws got changed.

 

[ArmyMP]

i feel the same way? i have an idea and want input... whats wrong with that?

 

[TheCapulet]

As much as I like the idea of rebellion against an authority that's twisted laws and the constitution to make more money and improve their personal agenda, having a gun for personal defense does you no good in prison. And from what I hear, prison is a real pain in the ***.

Sure, the laws need changing. A lot of laws do. But unless there's a direct and deliberate breach of our constitutional rights by a government turned oppressive, there are much better ways to fight authority. That's the difference between us and the commoners of the middle ages. When they disagreed with something, they started riots and were all put down like over aggressive animals. When we disagree with something, we have the ability to use the 'system' to our advantage to change things in the common interest.

 

[LEaSH]

Not being able to see your original post doesn't help me understand your idea you're wanting input for.

If your talking about simply ignoring what is required: a background check, finger prints, and fees to make it all happen, and carrying anyways?

If it's a money thing, of course you're correct - it's a rip off. But so are many licenses and fees. From automobiles to plumbing.

Civil disobedience works when you have a large group of supporters and are willing to spend extended time in jails. And $125 in fees is a bargin compared to your first lawyer bill.

But please, contact the IACLU monday to see if they'll help you out. You'll meet some intersting folks if you show them your firearms.

 

[gmiller]

As far as the police/court not knowing that you're not having the gun repaired, etc. It doesn't matter, the burden of proof is on you to prove you were getting it repaired. See IC 35-47-2-24. It's at the bottom of this page: Indiana Code 35-47-2

Three cases of particular note are here:
United States v. Cruikshank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
District of Columbia v. Heller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
McDonald v. Chicago - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the Cruikshank case the Supreme Court ruled that the 2nd amendment applies only to the federal government and the states can do "almost" anything they want. The Heller case states that the 2nd amendment is an individual right, but applies only to Washington D.C. And the McDonald case is a case which will be heard before the Supreme Court on March 2nd, and is an attempt to use the Heller judgment to apply the 2nd amendment to all states. But it more specifically is a challenge to Chicago's outright ban on possession of handguns by most people, and doesn't address the right to carry.

I did quite a bit of research on the topic a while back, and came to the conclusion that if you're not really doing anything irresponsible, then you're not likely to get arrested. But if you end up in court, you're pretty much screwed. I specifically looked for cases where someone was arrested while having the gun in the trunk of their car unloaded. Never found anything close. The two closest I could find were one where a person had a loaded gun in their glove compartment, they were in a car wreck and the handgun was laying on the floor when the officer spotted it. Another was an antique firearm which no longer could fire, unloaded in a trunk, but was on school property. But I did find several people who said a police officer told them they shouldn't have a gun in their car without a license, but didn't actually arrest them.

The main mistake most people make when attempting to interpret the 2nd amendment is that they just focus on the part that says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". And of course anyone cherry picking words can convince themselves it means whatever they want it to mean. The full text refers to "A well regulated militia", and the whole text as interpreted in the Cruikshank case linked above means as long as we have the armed forces, you're right isn't being infringed, and that it has nothing to do with an individual protecting himself or his property from a common intruder.

 

[Kagnew]

Doing some research....

Grow up and quit giving other gun owners a bad name. What's your next "defiant" move - driving without an operator's license?

 

[ArmyMP]

wow where did that come from... so because someone has an idea and wans input on it you cut them down? kagnew if your not willing to stand for your rights then you deserve to lose them..... Can you even explain how i would be giving fine upstanding american gun owners like you a bad name? Is it because i am a big scary 5'6 white combat veteran with a criminal record for public intox? or is it because i bled and nearly died defending my second ammendment right and now want to exercise it without infringement? or is it because i whole heatedly believe that the current system is unconstitutional? I have to pay 50 dollars to carry my pistol on my hip in plain view but can walk around with my SKS or shotgun under my coat and be fine...

maybe it is you that gives gun owners a bad name..... because all you do is whine and complain about the laws while collecting a cache of fire arms... Preaching about how someone needs to do something about it..... But the moment someone stands up and says this isnt right.. you turn your back to the doctrine you have preached and try to cut them down.

You sir are a head covering for an anus....

 

[caseyc]

just pay for the license and quit trying to be a rebel unless you want to do time

 

[MoparMan]

If you are a veteran as your name states then act like it. We are not in that type of business. Your not presenting a good image for vets. Just follow the laws as most of us law-abiding citizens do.

 

[Kagnew]

wow where did that come from... so because someone has an idea and wans input on it you cut them down? kagnew if your not willing to stand for your rights then you deserve to lose them..... Can you even explain how i would be giving fine upstanding american gun owners like you a bad name? Is it because i am a big scary 5'6 white combat veteran with a criminal record for public intox? or is it because i bled and nearly died defending my second ammendment right and now want to exercise it without infringement? or is it because i whole heatedly believe that the current system is unconstitutional? I have to pay 50 dollars to carry my pistol on my hip in plain view but can walk around with my SKS or shotgun under my coat and be fine...

maybe it is you that gives gun owners a bad name..... because all you do is whine and complain about the laws while collecting a cache of fire arms... Preaching about how someone needs to do something about it..... But the moment someone stands up and says this isnt right.. you turn your back to the doctrine you have preached and try to cut them down.

You sir are a head covering for an anus....

We all appreciate you service, my friend, but don't wear yourself out trying to impress someone who wore green clothes for almost 34 years. I, for one, took an oath to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic". To me, that includes obeying the laws of the land (so long as they are, in fact, the laws of the land) whether I personally agree with them or not.

 

[ArmyMP]

Then you should know the 14th ammendment....
The whole concept of the bill of rights is the protection of individual citizens against government. individual citizens.... keep and bear arms.... bear meaning to carry... shall not be abridged........ see where this is going.....

Any law.... no matter the majority of thinkers... that violates the constitution is no law at all and should be resisted......

C 1-1-2-1
Hierarchy of law
Sec. 1. The law governing this state is declared to be:
First. The Constitution of the United States and of this state.


Numero Uno is????? The Constitution of the United States

If I had seen where my country was going to be now when i enlisted... i would not have joined.... i defended an America that doesnt exist...


If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.

 

[Kagnew]

Then you should know the 14th ammendment....
The whole concept of the bill of rights is the protection of individual citizens against government. individual citizens.... keep and bear arms.... bear meaning to carry... shall not be abridged........ see where this is going.....

Any law.... no matter the majority of thinkers... that violates the constitution is no law at all and should be resisted......

C 1-1-2-1
Hierarchy of law
Sec. 1. The law governing this state is declared to be:
First. The Constitution of the United States and of this state.


Numero Uno is????? The Constitution of the United States

If I had seen where my country was going to be now when i enlisted... i would not have joined.... i defended an America that doesnt exist...


If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.

God's speed and best of luck to you, my friend. I hope that you don't have to share an apartment with anyone named Bubba when you check in at the Pendleton Arms.

 

[ArmyMP]

Umm lets see I wont...... if you had any common sense and could read you would understand that..... the whole point of the thread was getting ideas and opinions..... and legal advice....... you see with a situtation like this i could tie up the courts for years..... be out walking around... before you jump in a thread that you have no idea about perhaps try reading it? otherwise you just come off looking like a head covering for an anus.

 

[Joe Williams]

I mentioned earlier that it may be possible to challenge the "poll tax" currently charged to exercise our Constitutional rights. It's a hinderance to poor folks... for the two of us, it amounts to two weeks worth of groceries, to people much poorer than us, it means not being able to exercise their rights.

What would it take to mount such a challenge?

 

[ArmyMP]

thats what I am thinking of fighting.....

 

[Joe Williams]

thats what I am thinking of fighting.....

I'm not talking about the LTCH. We aren't going to get rid of that. But if the state wants to require a background check, they should not be able to tax poor people out of exercising their rights. It's the fees I'd like to see challenged.

 

[ArmyMP]

I know how to fight it and win... i was looking for someone to point me in the right direction or representation... then i got all those hacks talking about going to prison....

 

[printcraft]

I know how to fight it and win... i was looking for someone to point me in the right direction or representation... then i got all those hacks talking about going to prison....

You must do what you think is right of course.

 

[LEaSH]

If your history of PI prevents you from getting your LTCH, get a lawyer and get it at your expense.
It won't be cheap - but it's doable.

Do it right. Don't use the injustices of society as an excuse to not do it right.

 

[ArmyMP]

my PI in no way interferes with my license... I was planning on getting my FFL... dealers dont have to pay fees for a license...... thats the part I really dont find fair