So yeah im thinking about fighting authority.....

[Blue Tile Spook]

I know how to fight it and win... i was looking for someone to point me in the right direction or representation... then i got all those hacks talking about going to prison....

Hack? You solicited opinions, I gave mine. I thought my opinion was pretty well-rounded. My opinion stands that, if a person were going to do this, they might succeed for a day, a week or 10 years, but if I had to bet on the average, my bet would be that that person would go to jail at some point.

If I had seen where my country was going to be now when i enlisted... i would not have joined.... i defended an America that doesnt exist...

When I was young and foolish (I am now old and foolish), I thought I joined the military to defend the ideals of people like me. I didn't yet realize that I fought for the ideals of EVERYONE in the US, whether I agreed with them or not, liked them or not. You regret your military service? Caveat emptor.

 

[Captain Bligh]

My whole thoughs are the unconstitutionality of it.... If i want to carry everyday I have to pay 150 dollars.... if im a dealer.. i dont have to pay... isnt that descrimination? the law works for 1 group one way and another group a different way.

Discrimination has to do with the Federal Civil Rights Act. Unless you can prove that you are being denied access to carry a gun because of your age, gender, race, disability, etc. there is no discrimination case. Pick a different windmill to fight.

I sure do hope you have a lot of lawyer money. The last thing I want is for you to need a public defender and have us tax payers pay your attorney fees.

 

[thompal]

I mentioned earlier that it may be possible to challenge the "poll tax" currently charged to exercise our Constitutional rights. It's a hinderance to poor folks... for the two of us, it amounts to two weeks worth of groceries, to people much poorer than us, it means not being able to exercise their rights.

What would it take to mount such a challenge?

It's pretty easy. You'd need a likable person with no criminal background whatsoever, who wants a license to carry to defend themselves and their likable family, but cannot afford to pay the fees associated with one. They would have to be willing to get arrested for carrying while not committing any crime. They would have to be willing to spend time in jail after their conviction, and then have the hundreds of thousands of dollars needed to appeal up to the state supremes, or possibly US Supreme Ct. There are several catches along the way: if their conviction is overturned by a lower court, or for any reason other than constitutionality of the law, then it doesn't count. Also, they have to be willing to continue to spend whatever money is required to fight it for the many years it would take to get to the supreme court, and follow through at every step.

Anything less results in a disaster like US v. Miller.

 

[ArmyMP]

captain bligh... so waht if i needed a public defender... Do you have somewhere else more important to spend your already missallocated public funds? Who cares...... If you are pro Gun owner you should be thinking victory at any cost....

 

[theturtle06]

What kind of precedence does it set when the only way you feel the laws can possibly be changed is by becoming an outlaw yourself? How do you think the lawmakers would take what you're saying? You really think they are going to listen to a "criminal?"

The current laws may suck but all we can do if we want to keep our somewhat limited current rights and potentially change our future rights is through the legislative system (as broken as it may be).

And yes, there are MANY places our incorrectly allocated public funds can go. If there wasn't so much of it going to our public defenders we would maybe have some extra money to give to schools, or to fix our horrible (at least in Indianapolis) roads, or maybe to the VA Hospital, or maybe...

Victory at any cost is not worth it. If you fight a war and are the only one left standing, what good is that?

 

[ArmyMP]

The only ways laws have really been changed is through civil disobedience... look at MLK or Rosa Parks.... the changed the law by breaking it.....

 

[theturtle06]

But civil disobedience by illegally carrying a weapon? I can see the parallel you are making but you're comparing apples to oranges.

If you become a felon by taking this route, what difference does it make if the law gets changed or not as you won't legally be able to carry anyway?

 

[ArmyMP]

as long as i follow the indiana code i can stay in misdemeanor area

 

[theturtle06]

If you're going to take that risk I guess you have a right to do so, but it seems like walking a fine line with much more potential for negative results than positive results. Cost/risk/return? Little cost, good risk, little potential for return. But you are your own person and seem to have already made your mind up .

 

[Eddie]

I have a problem with this thread in that the OP shifts back and forth between ideas of challenging the law by means of an appeal and ideas about carrying illegally but lying about taking the gun to his place of employment or to be repaired.

If you really want to change the law then that means lobbying the legislature for a change or getting a judge or appellate court to declare the law unconstitutional. Lying about why you are carrying won't do anything to change the law. Lies and deceit aren't the same as civil disobedience, lies and deceit are what the criminals do.

If you want to practice civil disobedience then you would gather up as many people as would support your point of view, notify the police that all of you were going to be carrying illegally and challenge them to put you all in jail.

If this thread is about ways to seek change in an unfair law then I am all about discussing it, but if this thread is about lying and deceiving in order to carry illegally then I don't support it.

 

[Kagnew]

One thing is for sure: Anyone who wants to p... and moan about Indiana's gun laws should take the time to look at the laws in some other states. Look at the hoops you have to jump through in Florida. Try getting any sort of carry permit in Illinois or Wisconsin. Indiana is probably one of the most reasonable states in the country. (As for fees - yeah, I hated to have to plunk down that much money for a lifetime permit. I also hate to have to pay income tax and property tax and sales tax and liquor tax and tobacco tax, but I know that there are no free lunches.)

 

[Thumper]

I hate to be that guy but it sounds like you are thinking about breaking the law being fully aware of it.Nothing personal but i don't think its a very good idea to play with fire and brag about it on a public forum.Sorry but its just not a good idea.

 

[Marc]

good luck

 

[mkbar80]

You must do what you think is right of course.

"Your insight serves you well"

Obi Wan has much to offer in this area...

"Patience Luke"

"This is a dangerous time for you, when you will be tempted by the Dark Side of the Force"

" Who's the more foolish: The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

"You can't win..."

"Be mindful of your thoughts...They'll betray you."

"He has become a very great threat. "

"I have a bad feeling about this."

Thats five minutes on imdb.com memorable quotes I'll never get back....

 

[ATM]

...Indiana is probably one of the most reasonable states in the country...

Let's not get complacent just because we aren't the most restrictive.

We are sorely lagging behind some other states in regard to firearm laws.

 

[Eddie]

Let's not get complacent just because we aren't the most restrictive.

We are sorely lagging behind some other states in regard to firearm laws.

I agree. I want to work for change in the law but I don't think breaking the law outside of an act of civil disobediance where one intends to be a test case is a vehicle for change.

 

[BE Mike]

I agree. I want to work for change in the law but I don't think breaking the law outside of an act of civil disobediance where one intends to be a test case is a vehicle for change.

I agree with you Eddie. I believe a person who wants to help fight restrictive firearms related laws should first get involved in pro-gun organizations, like the NRA and Indiana State Rifle & Pistol Association. Many times all the pro-gun outfits have to do is educate the legislators and the public to get things done or bad legislation stopped. Firearms owners need to know the pro-gun candidates and how they feel about issues. They need to regularly contact their representatives and express their views. Concerned firearms owners should donate time and money to help their candidates get elected. Lastly firearms owners should vote and take like-minded folks who lack the ability, get to the polls as well.

Being a veteran, I do find it interesting that someone who claims to have been an MP is so "up in arms" (pardon the pun) about this issue. In my experience, there was no appeal to getting a ticket (DR) for a traffic violation on a military installation. Private firearms on military posts are very strictly controlled, as well. Many times soldiers have to keep their private firearms locked up in armories and get access to them at limited times. Forget about concealed carry on post. MP's wielded a lot of power on post and enforcement was ever present. Living and /or working on a military post means having to give up many of one's individual freedoms. It was downright oppressive. Don't get me wrong. I have the utmost respect for our veterans who honorably served. I served with MP's and appreciate the job they did, especially overseas.

 

[pftraining_in]

ArmyMP, go for it.

I say you get some decals made for your car and get some T-shirts that say "I am carrying with out a permit to prove a point". Then OC when wearing the shirts and while driving so you gain support from the public on your endeavor. Yard signs and billboards with your picture would also help spread the word of your endeavor and help you gain support. I see this as the only way to prove your point and get the ball rolling.

I would think lawyers would flock to your defense and support you all the way to the Supreme Court as long as you have money to pay them.

 

[SilentWarrior1]

ArmyMP, Thank you for your service.

Honestly, I would love to see the laws reversed to where we don't have to have a permit to carry, even though my wife and I have already shelled out our $250 for our lifetimes. It's a small price to pay to stay out of orange jump suits.

While I fully support your end-game endeavors, your methods leave me with a bit of concern. My advice to you, stay on the right side of the law. Even if you only get the 4-year license at a time, it's still better than taking the chance of losing your rights altogether.

Yes, FFL's still have to pay MUCH more in fees, licenses, and overall taxes than the normal citizenry and they have to pay them MUCH more frequently. Any dealer here would vouch for this and don't fool yourself to think otherwise. I've looked into it, and I decided it wasn't worth it to me.

Good luck to you in your endeavors, but please re-think your strategy.