Should Marijuana Be Legalized

[Kirk Freeman]

Laws that control behavior to compel people to confirm to a particular moral code are morally wrong

1. What if it is for your own good?

2. What if banning marijuana prevents you from sleeping with jazz musicians and allows us to keep the white women in line?

 

[NYFelon]

1. What if it is for your own good?

2. What if banning marijuana prevents you from sleeping with jazz musicians and allows us to keep the white women in line?

I keep my white woman in line by chaining her to the sink, where she belongs.

 

[E5RANGER375]

yes legalize them all. if you get caught driving on it or anything else stupid theres already laws in place for that. everyone says pot is a gateway drug, well I think alcohol is the gateway drug to everything

 

[NYFelon]

or cigarettes.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

In fairness to your point of view, Kutnupe14, if I had spent time in LE or as an EMT or someplace where I saw the ill effects of the stuff day in and day out, I can honestly say it might make me lean towards a less libertarian position. I started out further to the hard right - and I've "aged" into the more libertarian point of view.

Where one stands on a given issue truly does depend upon where one sits...

 

[The Bubba Effect]

QUOTE=88GT;1865131]Laws that control behavior to compel people to confirm to a particular moral code are morally wrong.

The only morally acceptable laws are those that directly protect the liberties of the individual.[/QUOTE]




We don't have the right to legislate morality.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Pffft, the lot you know, legislating morality is right there next to the Commerce Clause . . . kinda . . . sorta . . . if you cross your eyes and think warm thoughts of Alexander Hamilton you'll find it.

 

[M67]

If weed was leagalized, it could be a huge revenue for the state and government due to taxes and a group of organized crime and drug dealers would become obsolete in the marijuana market, unless the went to another drug market.

But, weed already is a large revenue for states because of court fees, diversion papers, etc but is also a huge cost because of extra wages and wasted man hours that could be spent on something more, important.

Marijuana is not a performance enhancing drug, you can't get addicted to it, and you can't overdose. But it does impair motor functions, reaction times, and productivity.

There are economic benifits to both the legalization and the illegalization of marijuana.

Personally I don't care and it should probably be made legal, or at least illegal enough to where we turn the other cheek and don't care. But it would be a hazard when people are hot boxing their car on the interstate going 80 mph.

So, maybe make it somewhat like cigarette smoking laws like only being able to smoke in your car; but for weed you can only smoke in your house

 

[Kutnupe14]

In fairness to your point of view, Kutnupe14, if I had spent time in LE or as an EMT or someplace where I saw the ill effects of the stuff day in and day out, I can honestly say it might make me lean towards a less libertarian position. I started out further to the hard right - and I've "aged" into the more libertarian point of view.

Where one stands on a given issue truly does depend upon where one sits...

It's an interesting dilemna. To a degree, a successful nation must have a moral standard. The moral standard creates the culture. There has not been a single society that has ever without them...
Do we really want to be a culture of hookers and dopers? Does the thought of living in a neighborhood where your kids pass by a brothel, on there way to school, bother you?
Legalization is a pipe dream. It won't solve a single problem. If anything, IMO it will create more deadeats, more freeloaders, and end up with more money out of my pocket to pay for them. If you want it legalized, the first thing you have to do is end our "handout" culture. If we allow that to subsist, legalization is doomed to failure. That said, it not conceiveable that will happen in any of our lifetimes.
The least productive members of our society are those who abuse intoxicants (and I'm throwing alcohol in there too). I see no reason legalize yet another substance that will lead to more people begging the govt to support them.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Does the thought of living in a neighborhood where your kids pass by a brothel, on there way to school, bother you?

No much time overseas then? You mean like in Germany where this happened every single day?

How are the Germans doing, oh, yeah, kicking our backsides.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Legalization is a pipe dream. It won't solve a single problem.

No, it is not. It is a reality that .fed cannot stop. Already the feds have given up on California. From California the legalization movement will only continue to grow.

Legalization stops:

1. Squandering the law enforcement resources to play the Grant Game.

2. Preventing SWAT teams from being used to shoot dogs and humans and terrorize families over a bag of weed.

3. Free court time, free jail and IDoC space (in Indiana one can do up to 11 years for a single marijuana cigarette).

4. Ruining lives unnecessarily over marijuana.

5. It will stop prosecutors from holding their lapels and rocking back and forth and striking the who farted look and begin rambling about responsibility, the best benefit of all.

I hate marijuana. I hate the smell. I hate how dirty the users are. I hate how dirty their apartments and houses are. I hate the sloth and apathy that come with using it.

However, I hate governmental misbehavior even more.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Regarding the safety issue with driving & cannabis, I propose a solution:

How about an electronic reaction time/hand eye coordination/cognitive thinking test?
Similar to a hand held video game, if this light flashes, press this button, if that light flashes, turn this knob. If you're too stoned/drunk/stupid to pass the field test, you're going in for driving when you're too stoned/drunk/stupid to drive.

After all, it isn't reaction time, coordination and cognitive thinking what we're concerned with as we hurdle around 465 at breakneck speeds?

Regarding the issue of legalization as a whole:

I don't think people should smoke weed.

I know it is not right to force people to do what I want them to do (except in a very narrow band of circumstances, ie I can make them stop attacking me).

I am less threatened by potheads coming onto my property and tearing up my stuff, kicking down my door and killing my dogs than I am by the Statists and their militarized agents.

I also don't think people should smoke cigarettes, chew skoal, drink alcohol, watch hours and hours of television, buy "Official Colts Gear" with 30% APR credit cards, and confuse Palin and Trump with small government advocacy, but I can't just go around kicking in people's doors and making them do what I want them to do. Its just not right.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

It's an interesting dilemna. To a degree, a successful nation must have a moral standard. The moral standard creates the culture. There has not been a single society that has ever without them...
Do we really want to be a culture of hookers and dopers? Does the thought of living in a neighborhood where your kids pass by a brothel, on there way to school, bother you?
Legalization is a pipe dream. It won't solve a single problem. If anything, IMO it will create more deadeats, more freeloaders, and end up with more money out of my pocket to pay for them. If you want it legalized, the first thing you have to do is end our "handout" culture. If we allow that to subsist, legalization is doomed to failure. That said, it not conceiveable that will happen in any of our lifetimes.
The least productive members of our society are those who abuse intoxicants (and I'm throwing alcohol in there too). I see no reason legalize yet another substance that will lead to more people begging the govt to support them.

I agree about the moral standard... I tend to think barring harm to others, I would want the moral standard to be by CHOICE not by FORCE. If someone cause harm to others, then society must step in - and I'm pretty sure that we agree on that. I believe that the rules of life are not negotiable. I.E. you ingest stuff that's addictive, and it's not gonna end well. Whether any of us chooses to adhere to those rules IS negotiable - we can choose it or not. But no matter our choice - the consequences are NOT negotiable.

The moral standard is indeed important. Using drugs for recreation is NOT WISE. Now - the question is this - how do we as a society make a relatively drug free situation happen? By force ? Or by choice/education? Intellectually I'd like to think that choice would do the trick - except that I know that people will do stupid stuff. That's what makes it a tough call. I still choose to err on the side of freedom - but I do understand your concerns...

 

[Kutnupe14]

No much time overseas then? You mean like in Germany where this happened every single day?

How are the Germans doing, oh, yeah, kicking our backsides.

I lived 4 years in Germany, Kirk, and I have a brother.... interestingly enough, also named Kirk who own a restuarant in Berlin. I go every year. Ha! bet you weren't expecting that.
And if you know how legalized prostitution works, Artemis or on Organestrasse, then you know that organized crime, Russians/Ukranians/Turks are running the show....

 

[88GT]

Pffft, the lot you know, legislating morality is right there next to the Commerce Clause . . . kinda . . . sorta . . . if you cross your eyes and think warm thoughts of Alexander Hamilton you'll find it.

Hey, I actually like Alex. He gets a bad rap these days for his advocacy for a stronger central government than the anti-federalists were suggesting, but even his perfect government would have been a helluva lot better than we've got now. He never advocated for the level of federal control over the individual's life as we have it now. He just didn't believe the U.S. would ever succeed if it operated as a confederation of loosely joined states. I happen to agree with him. I think he was instrumental in getting the fledgling country to take wing and fly. The fact that we flew straight into hell wasn't his fault. Would it have been better not to fly at all?

For as good as it sounds these days, TJ was a nutjob: he would have got on splendidly with today's libertarians.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

It was bound to happen sooner or later...

If you want it legalized, the first thing you have to do is end our "handout" culture. If we allow that to subsist, legalization is doomed to failure.

Well I'll be, Kutnupe14 and I agree on something.

I absolutely, totally, 100% agree that we should not let people get stoned, drunk and worthless knowing that, we, the productive members of society, will be forced to pay their way.

I think that a man should be allowed to snort coke, meth, draino, or whatever he pleases and if he falls hemorrhaging in the street the public should not be compelled by law to pay for his treatment.

I believe that it is this unholy mess of forcing everyone to pay for everyone else's mistakes that screws everything up. If I have to pay for Johnny's screw ups, then I feel that I have a right to tell Johnny what he can and cannot do. Since everyone is forced to pay for Johnny's screw ups by "social services" funded by the citizenry through taxes (money collected at the barrel of a gun), then the citizenry at large feels that they have a right to decide by council what Johnny is permitted to do and not do.

I say we pull the cord, stop forcing people to pay for Johnny and let Johnny sink or swim on his own. If Sally doesn't like seeing Johnny starve to death because he would rather shoot smack than work for food, then Sally can pay his way or she can pass the hat at church or at her social club or whatever.

I'm sick and tired of paying for Johnny. I'm sick and tired of Johnny, Sally, et all sitting around a table and deciding how much of the fruits of my labor they are going to take to pay for Johnny, then turning around and voting on what they are going to "allow" me to do with what's left of my life. Even if I get 1 vote in the issue it's still a load of crap.


Legalize dope, Ban forced participation in the funding of social services.

First:
Then if they don't like that:

Where's John Galt?

 

[ViperJock]

Let me first say that I don't think anyone should use drugs. That being said, we all know that a significant portion of the population does indulge. Whether it be legal drugs such as alcohol or those without the budget to hire a good PR firm such as weed.

The question we should be asking is not whether it is morally good for the country, but what would the results of legalization be? would it increase use? probably. I am sure there are some that are frightened away from it by threat of incarceration. I doubt there are many of those, however. I have no data to prove it, but I would guess that those who would use, use anyway. Those who would abuse, abuse anyway. They may use alcohol instead of weed, but the end result is the same: impaired cognition and increased risk of death to anyone who happens to be around them when they decide to drive. (or clean their guns....)

So the hypocrisy of the brandy snifting politician that bans, or the drunk LEO that arrests, is laughable to me.

Legalize it. Think of the loss of our taxes to fight the losing battle. Think of the people who have harmed noone but themselves and are hounded by the law. Think of the sales and income tax revenues?!?! The democrats would be able to continue euthanizing the country with entitlements without raising income tax on the producers! Ah Darwin at work.

Galt and Darwin in 2012! The platform: go ahead, smoke as much as you want....

 

[Kirk Freeman]

If you go to Germany much then you now that schoolkids walk by brothels every single day and do not burst into flame.

"What about the children" needs to die a quick death.

 

[christman]

I already forgot what we were talking about. Who has the Cheetos's? Don't bogart.

 

[NYFelon]

N
3. Free court time, free jail and IDoC space (in Indiana one can do up to 11 years for a single marijuana cigarette).

WHAT??!