Shots Fired at Truck with MAGA Flag on I-465

[Fargo]

JT: I think the "error" I see in many of these discussions is that "the left" is oft-times used on INGO synonymously with "Democrats", yet the same individuals disclaim "the far right" "alt-right" "fascism" when defining their Republican brethren.

You seem to allow mental illness in "the left" but fail to recognize that mental illness affects human beings regardless of party.

In my honest opinion, the glaring defect in this thread (edit: I think it was the baseball shooting thread) was allowing Kirk to use terms like left and right without making him define the terms. He started jumping around to whichever definition suited him, both treating Republican and right as synonyms as well as ignoring that both parties have fundamentally changed over the last 150 years. Other folks followed suit, which is why we are now using Southern Poverty Law Center definitions of what is the "right" which is just ridiculous. People who won't define their terms will always just talk past each other.

 

[Dddrees]

It wasn't a Republican former Klan member that used the N-word on national television. The former KKK member on the Supreme Court didn't belong to the Grand Old Party.

It wasn't Republicans that filibustered the Civil Rights Act . . . but we apparently don't care enough about certain 'races', so that means we're racist. Got it. It's always about how you feel about something, rather than what can be done about something. The President won awards from the NAACP for his actions to help the minority community, but now that he's out of the closet as a Republican, he might as well have been wearing a white sheet the whole time, eh?

And these are recent examples. You have to back almost a century to find major GOP members in office with Klan membership - Jackson, Morley, etc. David Duke switched from Democrat to Republican, but he was ostracized by the GOP establishment at every turn. He's a joke. As opposed to Robert Byrd, who was a beloved Senator by his DNC fellows.

And if you can't see the difference between a drugged-out loser kid like Roof and an older guy who has lived a successful and productive life deciding to become a sniper, then the everpresent chip on your shoulder has overwhelmed your capacity for reason and there's no real point in discussing the issue with you.

When you say the President are you talking about Trump. Sorry but considering Trumps history I think it's a bit odd that you would even mention him if your trying to make the Republican Party look like it's not racist.

 

[Alpo]

In my honest opinion, the glaring defect in this thread was allowing Kirk to use terms like left and right without making define the terms. He started jumping around to whichever definition suited him, both treating Republican and right as synonyms as well as ignoring that both parties have fundamentally changed over the last 150 years. Other folks followed suit, which is why we are now using Southern Poverty Law Center definitions of what is the "right" which is just ridiculous. People who won't define their terms will always just talk past each other.

Thank you.

 

[Fargo]

Thank you.

Actually I think it all started in the other thread, but I haven't been able to keep the two straight.

 

[Kutnupe14]

It wasn't a Republican former Klan member that used the N-word on national television. The former KKK member on the Supreme Court didn't belong to the Grand Old Party.

It wasn't Republicans that filibustered the Civil Rights Act . . . but we apparently don't care enough about certain 'races', so that means we're racist. Got it. It's always about how you feel about something, rather than what can be done about something. The President won awards from the NAACP for his actions to help the minority community, but now that he's out of the closet as a Republican, he might as well have been wearing a white sheet the whole time, eh?

And these are recent examples. You have to back almost a century to find major GOP members in office with Klan membership - Jackson, Morley, etc. David Duke switched from Democrat to Republican, but he was ostracized by the GOP establishment at every turn. He's a joke. As opposed to Robert Byrd, who was a beloved Senator by his DNC fellows.

And if you can't see the difference between a drugged-out loser kid like Roof and an older guy who has lived a successful and productive life deciding to become a sniper, then the everpresent chip on your shoulder has overwhelmed your capacity for reason and there's no real point in discussing the issue with you.

Roof WASNT in the Klan, so I'm not sure why you even brought that up, other than for red herring purposes. The ideology the motivated Roof was Far-Right, end of story. You don't have to admit it, but that doesn't make it any less true. Also, don't fault me because you fail to recognize that parties and politicians evolve over time. Actually, I think you already know this, but are selective in your application of if. If I may:


https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...fk-welcome-todays-anti-2a-democrat-party.html

You remember that one right? The idea that a political party could stay static in its views over the course of a 150+ year period surpasses the ridiculous, and borders on the insane. The title of the cited thread, infers as much. The rest of you post is of no consequence, sit has no bearing in the discussion. We're talking about the ideology that inspired Roof.

 

[Kutnupe14]

In my honest opinion, the glaring defect in this thread was allowing Kirk to use terms like left and right without making define the terms. He started jumping around to whichever definition suited him, both treating Republican and right as synonyms as well as ignoring that both parties have fundamentally changed over the last 150 years. Other folks followed suit, which is why we are now using Southern Poverty Law Center definitions of what is the "right" which is just ridiculous. People who won't define their terms will always just talk past each other.

Ha, beat me to it.

 

[KellyinAvon]

In my honest opinion, the glaring defect in this thread was allowing Kirk to use terms like left and right without making define the terms. He started jumping around to whichever definition suited him, both treating Republican and right as synonyms as well as ignoring that both parties have fundamentally changed over the last 150 years. Other folks followed suit, which is why we are now using Southern Poverty Law Center definitions of what is the "right" which is just ridiculous. People who won't define their terms will always just talk past each other.

The Southern Poverty Law Center is one guy who cites himself more than a college professor writing the 12th edition of a textbook.

OH, almost forgot. I was with the Bhausen brothers and DID NOT (repeat) DID NOT have a MWAG call. I was thinking over/under 15 minutes.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I am not an ideologue. I tend to side with conservatives on most governance issues, but only because I think they trade in better governance ideas than the left.

I think you and I are speaking more about social politics, though...and there I tend to lean markedly to the left. I am a Live and Let Live individualist. I think one of the greatest things about America is that we are not a bland hegemony. Personally, I think people should be allowed to do literally whatever they want on their own property so long as it doesn't run afoul of the rights and consent of any others involved.

I am sort of a traveller between worlds in some ways, in that I frequent many liberal-leaning media outlets for their coverage of social issues important to me while also frequenting many conservative media outlets for their coverage of news and governance. There is something I have noticed about both crowds that I find striking: Both groups are ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED that the "other side" wants to force them to live in some other way than they choose for themselves, while claiming all the while that they, themselves, only want to be left alone to live the way they want. Both groups are seemingly blind to the fact they the behaviors in which they engage are largely to blame for the way they are viewed.

If we all just want to be left alone to live life how we want, why not work together to reach that goal? We would have to be willing to work together on "unsavory" issues...we might have to learn to care less about the abortions they have if we realistically want them to care less about the guns we have.

I think, if we are willing to cooperate, even our divided society can make progress on this, and it all starts with talking.

First, you have an excellent point. There are many on both sides wishing to impose their ideas of right and proper on the other and both need to stop if we are going to resolve this situation without unrest. As far as my views regarding the left, so far as I am concerned, no matter how repugnant their ways may be, I can live with them if they are willing to accept constitutional government, keep their nose pickers off of my enumerated rights, AND NOT EXPECT SPECIAL TREATMENT BASED ON THEIR LIFESTYLE CHOICES THEY TRY TO PASS OFF AS INVOLUNTARY. Abortion is the one point where I absolutely cannot compromise unless we legalize all forms of murder.

Second, we need to put the brakes on this crap of inventing 'rights' from the spaces between the lines of the Constitution which supposedly supersede the rights of everyone else which are clearly enumerated. I would also include here dealing with men who feel entitled to go to the john with my nieces. If there was any real honesty in finding a mutually acceptable solution, we would already have a third alternative available as, for example, some schools have tried making a third set of facilities available for those who are too damned delusional to understand what gender they are. These efforts have unfortunately landed in court where the rising oligarchy determined that they have a right divined out of thin air to impose themselves on our sisters, wives, and daughters.

Yeah it sure would be nice if we didn't have to impose our beliefs on others especially when those actions have little or no impact on us. Didn't work so well when our country decided to make alcohol illegal I don't see why we have to keep going there. I find homosexuals wrong so you can't be one. I find abortion repugnant so you can't have one. I'd much rather pay for your unwanted baby so I'll force it upon you.

We have a significant amount of common ground. Prohibition of any type is stupid beyond the absence of any constitutional authority to impose it. I agree generally about homosexuals with the caveat that I had damned well not ever catch one trying to proselytize one of my nieces or nephews. Again, I will budge on abortion if and only if we legalize all forms of murder. The right to do with yourself as you will does not extent to killing someone else, even under that unique relationship.

Yeah lets see, Dylan Roof:
-Frequented and was influenced by a site called the Council of Conservative Citizens which was closed down shortly after the massacre, the site owner donated exclusively to Republicans.
-Wanted a return to segregation
-Ranted about Trayvon Martin, and the Baltimore Riots
-Complained about immigration
-admired the KKK and skinheads, white supremacy groups which are considered Far Right

You're not going be able to pass off the bad actions of right-winger, by simply dismissing him as loon, when the politics of left-wing loons are cited during their bad actions. His actions were based solely on a political ideology that was Far Right Conservatism. And it is willful ignorance to not admit that members of the KKK, in any incarnation or from any time, were/are far right in their beliefs.

A conservative is defined entirely by that which he wishes to conserve. Having agreement with a number of traditional conservative positions but then adding on a number of unrelated issues in not necessarily a fair comparison, especially given that no one on the general right has supported this nonsense unlike the left by and large accepting, supporting, and transferring blame to the Republicans and/or Trump for the left fringe acting up. By the way, skinheads are a variant of Nazis, the National SOCIALIST German Workers' Party, that is. Don't try selling me a load of nonsense about these allegedly right-wing socialists.

When you say the President are you talking about Trump. Sorry but considering Trumps history I think it's a bit odd that you would even mention him if your trying to make the Republican Party look like it's not racist.

What? He doesn't want to act like there is no such thing as a southern border so that makes him a racist?

 

[cbhausen]

No rifles up there today but about 8 of 16 people were OCing handguns. A beautiful sight indeed. Everyone carried safely with no unholstering for show and tell and one woman told me both of her adult daughters were going to get handguns and training and start carrying too. Heartwarming!

 

[Dddrees]

First, you have an excellent point. There are many on both sides wishing to impose their ideas of right and proper on the other and both need to stop if we are going to resolve this situation without unrest. As far as my views regarding the left, so far as I am concerned, no matter how repugnant their ways may be, I can live with them if they are willing to accept constitutional government, keep their nose pickers off of my enumerated rights, AND NOT EXPECT SPECIAL TREATMENT BASED ON THEIR LIFESTYLE CHOICES THEY TRY TO PASS OFF AS INVOLUNTARY. Abortion is the one point where I absolutely cannot compromise unless we legalize all forms of murder.

Second, we need to put the brakes on this crap of inventing 'rights' from the spaces between the lines of the Constitution which supposedly supersede the rights of everyone else which are clearly enumerated. I would also include here dealing with men who feel entitled to go to the john with my nieces. If there was any real honesty in finding a mutually acceptable solution, we would already have a third alternative available as, for example, some schools have tried making a third set of facilities available for those who are too damned delusional to understand what gender they are. These efforts have unfortunately landed in court where the rising oligarchy determined that they have a right divined out of thin air to impose themselves on our sisters, wives, and daughters.



We have a significant amount of common ground. Prohibition of any type is stupid beyond the absence of any constitutional authority to impose it. I agree generally about homosexuals with the caveat that I had damned well not ever catch one trying to proselytize one of my nieces or nephews. Again, I will budge on abortion if and only if we legalize all forms of murder. The right to do with yourself as you will does not extent to killing someone else, even under that unique relationship.



A conservative is defined entirely by that which he wishes to conserve. Having agreement with a number of traditional conservative positions but then adding on a number of unrelated issues in not necessarily a fair comparison, especially given that no one on the general right has supported this nonsense unlike the left by and large accepting, supporting, and transferring blame to the Republicans and/or Trump for the left fringe acting up. By the way, skinheads are a variant of Nazis, the National SOCIALIST German Workers' Party, that is. Don't try selling me a load of nonsense about these allegedly right-wing socialists.



What? He doesn't want to act like there is no such thing as a southern border so that makes him a racist?

Don't get me wrong it makes me sick to think a homosexual might attack one of my kids or anybody else for that matter. But then again look no further than the Catholics or that guy at Penn State when it comes to this. My father use d to say that once you make it legal then it sanctions it and makes it more acceptable and it will be taught in school and you'll have more of them. However I've always heard and seen some evidence that sexual predators tend to be heterosexual. True or not I'm not sure what the actual data is at this point but I think you'll always have sexual predators regardless of what you do. Bill Cosby is a sexual predator, Bill Clinton is a sexual predator, Roger Ailes is a sexual predator, and Bill OReilly is a sexual predator, what's his name Weiner is a sexual predator. I also don't believe my father was right that somehow by saying it is acceptable that you'll end up with anymore homosexuals than you would have if it were not. I tend to think in this area there will always be people who are just because that's what they are not because we decide it's acceptable or not.

I think being able to choose when and if you want to die should be your buisiness but unfortunately you would probably have so many instances where we would wonder if that's what they really wanted or if that's what somebody else wanted. if we legalize it I guess we could reduce those incedents of murder somehow.

Its not the southern border on its own but a combination of things he's done, said, and people he's associated himself with. I think it all starts with the lawsuit he and his father where involved with in the seventies when the apartments he rented out where applicants of color were marked a certain way so blacks were unable to lease those apartments. The aggressive way he went after the New York Five supposedly where he took out a full page ad. The whole Birther thing with the President. Then not distancing himself from David Duke. The comments he made at the time about not knowing who he was and the reason he gave which was extremely flakey once he was reminded who he was. Sorry but most people of my age and older know who David Duke is. His association with the Alt Right when the Alt Right to my understanding has published some very racist items. His words, his actions, and his associations make him appear to be a racist.

 

[1DOWN4UP]

FIFY

 

[Dddrees]

. FTFY

Thats just so wrong. I can understand someone highlighting a portion of someone's comment but modification by either adding or subtracting is unacceptable, and nowhere did I even implicate by what I said about Trump that I believed that all Republicans were racist. You did that and you added those words. Now I can't stop one bad actor but I can certainly call you out. Modifying some one else's words to make them appear anything different or just the simple act of doing it period for that matter is just plain WRONG!!

 

[1DOWN4UP]

When you say the President are you talking about Trump. Sorry but considering Trumps history I think it's a bit odd that you would even mention him if your trying to make the Republican Party look like it's not racist.

Then did I misunderstand this post?

 

[Dddrees]

Then did I misunderstand this post?

It appears based on the words you added with inside the quote of my words that you did. You don't fix my words, I can chose my own words thank you very much.

 

[red_zr24x4]

. FTFY

Thats just so wrong. I can understand someone highlighting a portion of someone's comment but modification by either adding or subtracting is unacceptable, and nowhere did I even implicate by what I said about Trump that I believed that all Republicans were racist. You did that and you added those words. Now I can't stop one bad actor but I can certainly call you out. Modifying some one else's words to make them appear anything different or just the simple act of doing it period for that matter is just plain WRONG!!

Now where have I seen this before?...
Oh, that's right, in the MSM about any Republican...

 

[Dddrees]

Now where have I seen this before?...
Oh, that's right, in the MSM about any Republican...

So you think it's wrong, but you condone those actions here?

 

[red_zr24x4]

Hey, I just made an observation
Don't see anywhere where I said good job 4up. I just pointed it out

 

[Dddrees]

Hey, I just made an observation
Don't see anywhere where I said good job 4up. I just pointed it out

Then personally I think you should have said something besides or in addition to just simply stating an observation. But this maybe just my opinion.

 

[red_zr24x4]

Yep, your opinion

 

[1DOWN4UP]

Seems to me that near half the voters associated with him on NOV. 7 th