Shooting to the left

[indyjohn]

Ultimately, the problem is that you're not pressing the trigger directly to the rear without disturbing the alignment of the gun until after the bullet exits the barrel.

I think I solved my shooting to the left problem by changing my grip and what part of my trigger finger touches the trigger.

This. And this.

My POI was consistently at 8 o'clock. I fixed it by making sure the tip of my finger was all that contacted the trigger and I imagined I was starting a lawn mower by pulling my finger at a 45* angle to the right (true story).

 

[gregkl]

Go buy a spring air-soft pistol and practice grip/trigger pull at home. This is an inexpensive way to experiment with grip and trigger and then perfect your hold. I have been doing this and pull the trigger on it 60-100 times most days. Has made a big difference in group sizes.

Do these really help? Which one do you recommend? What do you other's think about this method? No disrespect to you Chance, I just am OCD and like a lot of input before I make a decision.

Is this better than practicing with your actual pistol for trigger control? I really don't know how to practice the trigger pull when I have to rack the slide or pull back the hammer each time and make it worthwhile. Maybe the Airsoft is an answer. I could use my real one for draw practice, reload drills, etc and switch to the Airsoft for trigger work?

 

[rhino]

"Hangs head in shame". I've been a bad boy....

Correct!

Thanks for the advice. I plan on going to the range this weekend giving another shot with your advice. I need more practice of calling your shot.

You're welcome! Good luck!

We all need more practice calling our shots. I know I definitely do!

 

[johnwhite]

best advise i can give you is go to a range with a competent instructor and take a few lessons. i have been shooting since i was 5 years old i am now 42. shooting at a range by yourself you will develop bad habits over time that only someone trained to teach will spot that's why i go and have a couple of refresher lessons every year

 

[dusty88]

best advise i can give you is go to a range with a competent instructor and take a few lessons. i have been shooting since i was 5 years old i am now 42. shooting at a range by yourself you will develop bad habits over time that only someone trained to teach will spot that's why i go and have a couple of refresher lessons every year

Ding ding ding!!

I still have a lot to learn and cannot advise you on the specifics.

I often postpone training due to cost and schedule. But when I finally spent $200 on a defensive pistol class, I realized how much I've been wasting doing the same old thing with my ammo. The class I took this year doesn't exist at this time as far as I know.... but I hear rhino (of ACT), Coach (Bright Firearms), and Fortress Defense are all really good.

 

[Trigger Time]

How hard are you squeezing with your pinky finger?

 

[Leo]

I have successfully honed marksmanship skills with air guns. My Feinwerkenbau rifle is factory certified for .039" ctc for 10 shot groups and the IMZH 46 air pistol is almost that accurate. If what you see on a 10 meter target is not one hole, it is your fault not the guns. Faithful disciplined practice with the air guns definately reflected in the scores I posted in rifle and pistol competiton. An air gun is a little more difficult because the pellet is moving down the barrel so slow (500 fps), any flinch in the trigger will push the shot off course a lot more than a 3000 fps centerfire rifle. If you can master an air gun, you will be a master of a centerfire.

To shoot air gun in the house, all you need is a cardboard box stuffed tight with rags, towels, carpet scraps, or anything like that. I have never had a pellet work past 8 inches of rags, so the box really does not have to be very big. They also sell steel pellet traps, but the wife hates to hear it go "ping" every time I fire since I stand in the kitchen to shoot. Good Luck

 

[BE Mike]

I have successfully honed marksmanship skills with air guns. My Feinwerkenbau rifle is factory certified for .039" ctc for 10 shot groups and the IMZH 46 air pistol is almost that accurate. If what you see on a 10 meter target is not one hole, it is your fault not the guns. Faithful disciplined practice with the air guns definately reflected in the scores I posted in rifle and pistol competiton. An air gun is a little more difficult because the pellet is moving down the barrel so slow (500 fps), any flinch in the trigger will push the shot off course a lot more than a 3000 fps centerfire rifle. If you can master an air gun, you will be a master of a centerfire.

To shoot air gun in the house, all you need is a cardboard box stuffed tight with rags, towels, carpet scraps, or anything like that. I have never had a pellet work past 8 inches of rags, so the box really does not have to be very big. They also sell steel pellet traps, but the wife hates to hear it go "ping" every time I fire since I stand in the kitchen to shoot. Good Luck

Not only that, but shooting any handgun one handed (as in air pistol matches) really opens the eyes to trigger control. Two handed shooting covers up a lot of bad trigger manipulation, but one handed shooting really allows that gun to move when the trigger control isn't just right. Follow through is also a lesson one learns with air pistol. It is a whole new ballgame.

 

[gregkl]

Not only that, but shooting any handgun one handed (as in air pistol matches) really opens the eyes to trigger control. Two handed shooting covers up a lot of bad trigger manipulation, but one handed shooting really allows that gun to move when the trigger control isn't just right. Follow through is also a lesson one learns with air pistol. It is a whole new ballgame.

So by the names of the air guns Leo mentioned I am guessing they are expensive. I would like one to be as close to my 1911 in weight and feel as I can get it. Are there brands out there that are better than others. A quick Google search brought up several and a lot of them were around $20. I think I would want to just use the Airsoft style guns. I am not looking to do anything other than a few reps when I practice dry-fire. I would use my actual pistol for draw and reload practice and the Airsoft for trigger manipulation.

Sorry about the thread drift but it is still related since we are trying to improve our trigger mechanics.

 

[Hopper]

My POI was consistently at 8 o'clock. I fixed it by making sure the tip of my finger was all that contacted the trigger and I imagined I was starting a lawn mower by pulling my finger at a 45* angle to the right (true story).

I did something similar to fix my "going to the left" issue. I put my finger about half way between the tip and the first joint, a bit more towards the tip, and pretend I'm pulling back towards the shoulder of my dominant hand. That, and plenty of dry-fire practice on a Laser Target, which has perhaps been the best investment I've made... it has paid for itself with all the live ammo I might have otherwise wasted.

 

[GIJEW]

You have to be careful with those charts that say where you're hitting and what you're doing wrong.

First, make sure your sights are lined up, and not drifting over side to side.
Next, make sure you are squeezing the trigger backward, and not yanking it to one side or the other.

^this!^ After years of hearing about putting the "proper part" of your finger on the trigger (1st pad, 1st joint, etc), I was told at an AMU small arms seminar to put your finger where it naturally falls on the trigger--just so you can press straight back. This might also be an issue of "does the grip fit my hand?" If it's just too big to get your finger on the trigger, you might end up pushing to the side while trying to squeeze the trigger.

 

[BE Mike]

So by the names of the air guns Leo mentioned I am guessing they are expensive. I would like one to be as close to my 1911 in weight and feel as I can get it. Are there brands out there that are better than others. A quick Google search brought up several and a lot of them were around $20. I think I would want to just use the Airsoft style guns. I am not looking to do anything other than a few reps when I practice dry-fire. I would use my actual pistol for draw and reload practice and the Airsoft for trigger manipulation.

Sorry about the thread drift but it is still related since we are trying to improve our trigger mechanics.

Air pistols for competition are completely different animals. They must be accurate. What Leo is talking about is that accurate air pistols can teach one about trigger control and follow through. A Daisy 747 can get the job done. This might be a good choice for the 1911 feel: Beeman P1 Air Pistol. Air guns - PyramydAir.com Shooting pellets that cost less than $7.00 per a tin of 500, is real inexpensive training and can be done in the basement. I'm not knowledgeable about air soft guns.

 

[gregkl]

Air pistols for competition are completely different animals. They must be accurate. What Leo is talking about is that accurate air pistols can teach one about trigger control and follow through. A Daisy 747 can get the job done. This might be a good choice for the 1911 feel: Beeman P1 Air Pistol. Air guns - PyramydAir.com Shooting pellets that cost less than $7.00 per a tin of 500, is real inexpensive training and can be done in the basement. I'm not knowledgeable about air soft guns.

Thanks. At $459 it's too rich for what I want to use it for. I'll do some searching. Back to your regular scheduled shooting left topic.

 

[Jackson]

If you ingrain the proper marksmanship fundamentals, you can learn to shoot accurately at distances that most on here will never dream of shooting.

Can you put some numbers on that? How far is a distance I wouldn't dream of, and how accurate is accurate? I want to give it a try.

 

[Jackson]

Ultimately, the problem is that you're not pressing the trigger directly to the rear without disturbing the alignment of the gun until after the bullet exits the barrel.

There are a variety of causes (and fixes), but pulling the trigger faster is not likely to help. In most cases, it's probably going to make it worse. Diagnosing what you're doing would require watching you shoot, but here are some general tips that might help:

• Make sure you have a good sight picture
• As you decide to press the trigger, make sure you visual focus is on the front sight (not the target), preferably the top edge.
• Touch the trigger with the pad of your trigger finger and press just hard enough to take up an slack/pretravel. If you're shooting a 1911, there won't be much if any. If you're shooting a Glock or other striker fired gun, there will be a significant amount of pretravel until you feel greater resistance when the trigger is about to "break."
• Keep pressing the trigger directly to the rear until it "breaks" (if you're doing live fire, the round will ignite), while at the same time maintaining your visual focus on the front sight.
• Call the shot . . . since you're still looking at the front sight, watch it rise from the rear notch as the gun is in recoil. When you can see the front sight lift directly in front of where you intended your bullet to impact, you know the gun was aligned properly when the bullet exited the barrel and it will hit where you intended (or at least very close to it).
• When you let the trigger reset, do not be in a hurry to chuck your finger off of the trigger. Doing so can actually disturb the alignment of the gun during that brief time between when you press the trigger and when the bullet has actually exited the barrel. If you're shooting a Glock-alike, let the trigger move forward just enough to reset.

Trigger control is the key. Some will assert that "grip doesn't matter" for accuracy, but you may find that adjusting your grip facilitates your ability to press the trigger directly to the rear without disturbing the alignment of the gun. This is especially true if you have small hands and/or short fingers. Try to repeat what Coach showed you about your grip last Saturday.

As rhino stated, proper trigger management is a key factor. The information necessary to assure this occurs comes from watching the front sight. If I'm looking for strict marksmanship at slow speeds, and I have sharp and clear focus on the front sight, I can often see it moving as I manipulate the trigger. I use that visual feedback from the front sight to adjust how I manipulate the trigger.

So trigger control is the key. Front sight focus and using the visual information from the front sight is the other key. If you look around you'll probably find there are a number of dry fire drills that focus on these two aspects of shooting. I need to start doing them myself.

 

[BE Mike]

Can you put some numbers on that? How far is a distance I wouldn't dream of, and how accurate is accurate? I want to give it a try.

Why would you want to put limitations on yourself? Set intermediate goals and once achieved, set new ones.

 

[Jackson]

Why would you want to put limitations on yourself? Set intermediate goals and once achieved, set new ones.

I'm looking for a starting point, not a limit. What wouldn't I dream of?

 

[BE Mike]

I'm looking for a starting point, not a limit. What wouldn't I dream of?

I see from your previous posts that you are or consider yourself a firearms instructor, so you really don't want me to answer any of your questions, do you? You just want to see if I know what I'm talking about. Why didn't you just come out and say that?

 

[Archer]

In addition to all the other great advice, try using a smaller target. When I first got started with handguns I was all over the place. A friend of mine with more experience got me shooting at pistol bullseye targets instead of silhouettes. There was an immediate tightening of my groups just from that one change. Aim small, miss small.

 

[Jackson]

I see from your previous posts that you are or consider yourself a firearms instructor, so you really don't want me to answer any of your questions, do you? You just want to see if I know what I'm talking about. Why didn't you just come out and say that?

I am not a firearms instructor and I do not consider myself to be one. Can you point me to the post where you got that idea? I've never intended to convey that. I pretty much consider myself a novice, or maybe middle-of-the-road when it comes to shooting. Especially when it comes to precise marksmanship. I have taken a few classes, primarily self-defense oriented. I definitely do not think that qualifies me as any kind of instructor. I have a long way to go myself.

I did actually want you to answer. I am interested in people's idea of a long pistol distance. I'm not sure I can ascertain whether you know what you're talking about from this handful of posts, but I agree with your earlier statement about the fundamentals of marksmanship. This really wasn't anything personal about you or your post. I think I just didn't ask my question very well.