Shooting to the left

[Owen]

Thanks for all the good ideas.
To answer a couple of questions raised: I am right handed and aim with my right eye.
I know it's not the sights, if I shoot on a sandbag I'm pretty much point of aim.
I will be working on grip and trigger control...

 

[rhino]

Lots of reasons for having shots going to the left, and like always, it's tough to diagnose and recommend remedy without seeing you shoot.

The key to all of this is pressing the trigger directly to the rear without disturbing the alignment of the gun until after the bullet has exited the barrel. How to make that happen is can be a challenge.

Shooting left and low left is common with Glocks. One reason is because the grip is so big that people often push to the left on the trigger as they are pressing it because they don't have enough of their finger in front. If this is the case, adjusting your grip may help.

You may also be milking the grip, which implies a sympathetic squeeze of your ring and little fingers as you are pressing the trigger. This can cause the muzzle to move to the left or to the left and down while the bullet is still in the barrel, even if the primer has already been ignited.

Again, the key is the press the trigger directly to the rear without disturbing the alignment of the gun until after the bullet has exited the barrel.

Some thing that may help:

1. Make sure you have a good two handed grip with as much contact between your hands and the gun as possible. If you don't know how to hold the gun properly, ask someone who does to show you.
2. The majority of the gripping should be done with your support hand, which allows you to relax your firing hand as much as possible. That makes it easier to press the trigger with only your trigger finger moving directly to the rear.
3. Maintain your focus visually and mentally on the front sight until after the bullet has left the barrel. You will know when you see the front sight start to "lift" from the notch in the rear once you learn how to see it.

 

[downrange72]

Lots of reasons for having shots going to the left, and like always, it's tough to diagnose and recommend remedy without seeing you shoot.

The key to all of this is pressing the trigger directly to the rear without disturbing the alignment of the gun until after the bullet has exited the barrel. How to make that happen is can be a challenge.

Shooting left and low left is common with Glocks. One reason is because the grip is so big that people often push to the left on the trigger as they are pressing it because they don't have enough of their finger in front. If this is the case, adjusting your grip may help.

You may also be milking the grip, which implies a sympathetic squeeze of your ring and little fingers as you are pressing the trigger. This can cause the muzzle to move to the left or to the left and down while the bullet is still in the barrel, even if the primer has already been ignited.

Again, the key is the press the trigger directly to the rear without disturbing the alignment of the gun until after the bullet has exited the barrel.

Some thing that may help:

1. Make sure you have a good two handed grip with as much contact between your hands and the gun as possible. If you don't know how to hold the gun properly, ask someone who does to show you.
2. The majority of the gripping should be done with your support hand, which allows you to relax your firing hand as much as possible. That makes it easier to press the trigger with only your trigger finger moving directly to the rear.
3. Maintain your focus visually and mentally on the front sight until after the bullet has left the barrel. You will know when you see the front sight start to "lift" from the notch in the rear once you learn how to see it.

what is this front sight you speak of?

 

[spitfire51]

I had a similar issue while shooting today. I found that if I let up just a little bit with my main hand and tightened up with my support hand (I was shooting right-handed) it seemed to help a fair amount.

 

[JohnN]

This problem is fairly widespread among Glock shooters. That is the reason I have dumped Glocks and settled on M&P's. This problem really manifests itself at longer ranges and may not be obvious at seven yards.

Glocks are great guns but I need a gun I can shoot subconsciously and not have to think about what part of my finger is resting on the trigger.

 

[Owen]

Thanks Rhino,
I'm going to try those things as soon as I can get out to the range.
I can dry fire without moving the sights much at all, so I'm thinking its grip more than trigger.

 

[Coach]

Thanks Rhino,
I'm going to try those things as soon as I can get out to the range.
I can dry fire without moving the sights much at all, so I'm thinking its grip more than trigger.

Slow down and really focus on the sights while pressing gently straight to the back on the trigger. In you head repeat front sight, front sight, front sight while making sure you have a sharp focus on the front sight. This might help keep you from anticipating the recoil, and it should help keep you from looking over the gun and admiring your work before it is time.

 

[Sticky]

I agree that it is some type of flinch or pulling the trigger in a direction that is not somewhat straight back. Putting more or less finger in the triggerguard can change the direction. I used to do the same thing with Browning P35's; which don't fit my hand very well. As already said, I also isolated the problem by having someone load a snapcap into my magazines at random places. Amazing how silly one can feel when the hammer hits a snapcap. That also cures other bad habits. Highly recommended.

Combined with some dry-fire, I think you may quickly solve your problem.

 

[downrange72]

I shot at friday night steel last month...I re developed a flinch. I had some bad ammo and I was jumping like a mad man on those bad primer strikes...bad habits can creep back if you don't practice. Unfortunately, this weather has kept me from live fire practice.

 

[rwp5150]

This could be a Glock thing. I own and have shot many Glocks. Every one I have shot has the rear sight pushed all the way to the right. Everyone I know on two police departments have theirs pushed to the right also. I think this a manufacturing error in the way there made, but easily corrected.

Since Downrange72 found it nessesary to email me this thread, selling it as another reason I should never go back to Glock, from the M&P, I guess I feel obligated to speak. Since all of the good reasons, contributing to the issue have been addressed, I will just defend the Glock instead. I agree that this issue is common with the Glock, and while working with a police department that issued Glock 23's, I observed many pistol with the sights shoved to the right, although mine wasn't one of them, nor was the Glock 31 I purchased on my own, for duty carry. I believe the issue with the Glock shooting to the left revolves around the trigger reach. (As was covered in an earlier post) People with smaller hands tend to have issues shooting the older Glocks, including pulling shots to the left. But I have noticed shooter with above average hands have less issues, including myself. Bottom line seems to be that the shooter either needs to find a pistol that fits their hands in a manner that allow the finger to fall in the proper position to allow a smooth rearward pull, or the shooter has to retrain themselves to shoot a pistol that has a non-ideal trigger reach. As you retrain yourself with the non-ideal eventually it will become instinctive. Unfortunately, transistioning to another pistol will come with new issues. Of course I have always preached that a shooter should stick with what works, including shooting the same or similar pistol when shooting USPSA, IPSC, IPDA, ect.

 

[downrange72]

Since Downrange72 found it nessesary to email me this thread, selling it as another reason I should never go back to Glock, from the M&P, I guess I feel obligated to speak. Since all of the good reasons, contributing to the issue have been addressed, I will just defend the Glock instead. I agree that this issue is common with the Glock, and while working with a police department that issued Glock 23's, I observed many pistol with the sights shoved to the right, although mine wasn't one of them, nor was the Glock 31 I purchased on my own, for duty carry. I believe the issue with the Glock shooting to the left revolves around the trigger reach. (As was covered in an earlier post) People with smaller hands tend to have issues shooting the older Glocks, including pulling shots to the left. But I have noticed shooter with above average hands have less issues, including myself. Bottom line seems to be that the shooter either needs to find a pistol that fits their hands in a manner that allow the finger to fall in the proper position to allow a smooth rearward pull, or the shooter has to retrain themselves to shoot a pistol that has a non-ideal trigger reach. As you retrain yourself with the non-ideal eventually it will become instinctive. Unfortunately, transistioning to another pistol will come with new issues. Of course I have always preached that a shooter should stick with what works, including shooting the same or similar pistol when shooting USPSA, IPSC, IPDA, ect.

I knew you would have to respond. Read the signature...you know it is true. . See you Sunday at the homestead....that is if you melt off that ice from your yard. Can't wait to see E's Kimber.

 

[rhino]

I shot at friday night steel last month...I re developed a flinch. I had some bad ammo and I was jumping like a mad man on those bad primer strikes...bad habits can creep back if you don't practice. Unfortunately, this weather has kept me from live fire practice.

That's not necessarily a "flinch," per se. rvb has made some excellent comments about this. When you learn how to shoot your gun fairly well, one of the things you learn is to anticipate the recoil and accommodate it as you learn how your gun cycles. It's a timing thing. It's also predictable and consistent. If you're expecting to be shooting shots quickly (and you always do), this is going to happen. If you're firing slow, deliberate shots one at a time for a group, maybe not so much, but that's a different skill.

Flinching is more random and the results are equally random.

 

[rwp5150]

I knew you would have to respond. Read the signature...you know it is true. . See you Sunday at the homestead....that is if you melt off that ice from your yard. Can't wait to see E's Kimber.

I have to admit that I am skeptical about Sunday, but if it warms up it may melt enough. I am sure you saw the range pictures on FB earlier. I am with you on seeing E's new Kimber, although I am scared I may catch the Kimber bug. I'm sure that Super Pro Carry is going to be nice. I know you'll find the irony, that the Glock deal from the other day is back on the table. The original buyer was a no show. It could be fate.... To be continued....

 

[rwp5150]

That's not necessarily a "flinch," per se. rvb has made some excellent comments about this. When you learn how to shoot your gun fairly well, one of the things you learn is to anticipate the recoil and accommodate it as you learn how your gun cycles. It's a timing thing. It's also predictable and consistent. If you're expecting to be shooting shots quickly (and you always do), this is going to happen. If you're firing slow, deliberate shots one at a time for a group, maybe not so much, but that's a different skill.

Flinching is more random and the results are equally random.

I keep telling him to focus his energy on technique and accuracy and the speed will come naturally. I also wanted to say that while I don't post much, I do read quite a bit on here and I am always delighted by the information from you (Rhino) and Coach provide. With so much mis-information out there, it it good to see knowlegable people shooting it straight, and sharing what they know. Keep up the good work.

 

[downrange72]

I have to admit that I am skeptical about Sunday, but if it warms up it may melt enough. I am sure you saw the range pictures on FB earlier. I am with you on seeing E's new Kimber, although I am scared I may catch the Kimber bug. I'm sure that Super Pro Carry is going to be nice. I know you'll find the irony, that the Glock deal from the other day is back on the table. The original buyer was a no show. It could be fate.... To be continued....

You are killing me. Don't do it. You will miss the M&P

I keep telling him to focus his energy on technique and accuracy and the speed will come naturally. I also wanted to say that while I don't post much, I do read quite a bit on here and I am always delighted by the information from you (Rhino) and Coach provide. With so much mis-information out there, it it good to see knowlegable people shooting it straight, and sharing what they know. Keep up the good work.

You guys know the some of the same people from back in the day. I'm sure you have crossed paths at some point. If I can RWP off the dang couch and out to a match I'm sure you two at least have seen each other.

 

[HICKMAN]

I keep telling him to focus his energy on technique and accuracy and the speed will come naturally.

what, you mean that M&P isn't magic?

Seems to be what I keep hearing from everyone who gets one

Sure does look purdy tho


rwp5150: What Glock are you looking for?

 

[rwp5150]

what, you mean that M&P isn't magic?

Seems to be what I keep hearing from everyone who gets one

Sure does look purdy tho

I was a die hard Glock shooter for years, starting with a 1st generation 19 in the 80's. I've owned a 19, 17, 22, a couple 23s and a 31. I even sent my Colt SS Gold Cup to the safe, and shot my 22 exclusively while I was competing at Coal Creek. Yeah, that was back when shooting IPSC with a Glock or 40S&W (short and wimpy) was taboo. I took a verbal beating from the 1911 45acp/38 super crowd. My only complaint with the Glock was the grip and grip angles. They don't point as well as they could. That is what drew me to the M&P. Well that and I could get a 45acp in the same size package as the Glock 40 (G-22) although a bit heavier. The M&P feel and points wonderfully, and it shoots well. But the factory trigger is crap and I don't like the way the Apex triggers feel either. I miss the smooth even stacking of the Glock trigger. I have considered reworking the trigger of the M&P to smooth it up and hopefully even out the stack, but if you goof something up, or want to return to factory original. S&W won't sell you M&P trigger parts. They are funny like that about there trigger parts. So I am at a cross roads and a good friend of mine has a G-22 for sale with less than 50 rounds through it. If I buy the 22 the M&P will likely be history.

 

[HICKMAN]

I was a die hard Glock shooter for years, starting with a 1st generation 19 in the 80's. I've owned a 19, 17, 22, a couple 23s and a 31. I even sent my Colt SS Gold Cup to the safe, and shot my 22 exclusively while I was competing at Coal Creek. Yeah, that was back when shooting IPSC with a Glock or 40S&W (short and wimpy) was taboo. I took a verbal beating from the 1911 45acp/38 super crowd. My only complaint with the Glock was the grip and grip angles. They don't point as well as they could. That is what drew me to the M&P. Well that and I could get a 45acp in the same size package as the Glock 40 (G-22) although a bit heavier. The M&P feel and points wonderfully, and it shoots well. But the factory trigger is crap and I don't like the way the Apex triggers feel either. I miss the smooth even stacking of the Glock trigger. I have considered reworking the trigger of the M&P to smooth it up and hopefully even out the stack, but if you goof something up, or want to return to factory original. S&W won't sell you M&P trigger parts. They are funny like that about there trigger parts. So I am at a cross roads and a good friend of mine has a G-22 for sale with less than 50 rounds through it. If I buy the 22 the M&P will likely be history.

I hear ya, I've been debating trying out the M&P, just so much time and practice in my Glocks already.

Guessing your Mike's buddy with the M&P45?

 

[rwp5150]

I hear ya, I've been debating trying out the M&P, just so much time and practice in my Glocks already.

Guessing your Mike's buddy with the M&P45?

There is a learning curve with the M&P but not bad. The interchangable grips inserts really help with the trigger reach.

The Glock 22 is almost a done deal. I'm headed out now for the FTF on it. And until he reads this, I am Mike's friend with the M&P 45.

 

[downrange72]

There is a learning curve with the M&P but not bad. The interchangable grips inserts really help with the trigger reach.

The Glock 22 is almost a done deal. I'm headed out now for the FTF on it. And until he reads this, I am Mike's friend with the M&P 45.

I wouldn't get rid of the M&P yet.