shell shock according to my dad.

[BADWOLF]

Okay I just want to put this out there, in my life I have faced my own mortality 3x I have a guy at work tell me that he knows people in the same situation that have become introverted, depressed and so on. My dad on the other hand equates me to somebody with shellshock in the verbiage from the Vietnam era. I've seen threads on here where if there was an active shooter situation that people will or should only engage if they were directly confronted by the shooter and will more likely respond to getting their friends and our family out of harm's way and themselves and would not engage the shooter unless they were directly confronted. Where I on the other hand , having dealt with my own mortality will be more likely to put myself in between an unknown someone that is defenseless and the shooter knowing that I have already dealt with my own mortality and willing to take risk as in a bullet than do nothing. Am I an oddity, the norm or something out in left field?

 

[Bapak2ja]

I think you are just a typical American. Most of us would try to help in a scenario like you describe were it not for fear of doing serious jail time afterwards due to political persecution. I anticipate getting me and mine out safely. If there is a way I can help afterwards, without fear of arrest, I will. I will not stand by and watch helpless folks get shot, but I fear the legal ramifications and being locked up with Bubba more than death.

 

[Que]

I cannot say. I've never faced that in a non-military environment and only post what I've been trained to do in a civilian environment: get back to your family. Still, I'm only posting what I HOPE to do. You HAVE done this and not many of us have the experience to put you in a category. I say you are you and know better than me what you WILL do in certain situations. That gives you a distinct advantage in my book. Be safe.

I hesitate to post this part, but believe it's important. If you family has noticed that you have become withdrawn or introverted since these incidents took place, consider getting checked out.

 

[Morgan88]

Bapak said it perfectly.
Morgan88

 

[Zoub]

I will start with the PTSD which you described perfectly. It's not only caused by combat, the key word being trauma. IF that is you, don't go it alone.

Are you unique? No, you are 1 out of 123. So unless there are 124 to 246 people present, you may at that moment be unique. This is where rational decision making in the face of fear and giving leadership to others is important. So if you are rational and the one with a plan, others will rally around you.

My stats are unproven by anyone but me and go back to the 80's. It comes from a blend of my corporate life, big city life, love for observing and predicting behavior and contrasting it with my other life experiences. In the 90's I often joked there are 123 different kinds of people and I have met each one of them a thousand times.

Many times in situations with at least 100 people present it was not uncommon for me to identify only 1 or 2 others who shared certain interests as myself. I tested this often with various subjects. These people were all working for corporate America and lived in major metro areas. In a larger MSA you can expect to be more of a lone sheepdog type fighting the wolves while the sheep watch. Smaller MSA's, you are not so unique but still in a minority.

By choice we don't live in any of the 381 MSA's. In these areas the wolf is in more danger then most. You still can't account for how unknown to you individuals will react to fear.

The only major metro area where I think you might not be alone is Chesapeake, VA. Just my vibe about the area in general.






Link to MSA info
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

 

[indiucky]

I will start with the PTSD which you described perfectly. It's not only caused by combat, the key word being trauma. IF that is you, don't go it alone.

That's funny you should say that zoub...

Back in January my intestine ruptured and I went septic....Nearly died...Got gutted like a fish, had an open wound where I could see my intestine, wore a bag for 3.5 months, dropped 40 lbs...etc....etc..etc...

After my last surgery to reverse my my bag and put my intestine back to where the good Lord originally had it... I was having nightmares nearly every night...Could not sleep...Kept thinking I still had my bag on and that it was going to rupture while out in public...Nightmares where I would look down and my body would begin opening up on its own etc.....

A buddy of mine stopped in the shop....He is a vet with three tours in Iraq, one in Afghanistan, and a an artificial leg courtesy of Uncle Sam...He noticed I was looking a little haggard and asked me if I was doing okay...I told him about my nightmares and waking up in a panic sometimes thinking my guts were spilling out on the floor...

"Yeah man...It will stop...You just got some PTSD.."

I said, "Buddy I doubt that..I was never in the service or anything..."

He just laughed and said, "You are such a dumb a$$ ...You don't get PTSD from being in the army...You get PTSD from almost dying and having your guts spilled out....The mind doesn't care how that happens...Just that it happens..."

 

[Blackhawk2001]

That's funny you should say that zoub...

Back in January my intestine ruptured and I went septic....Nearly died...Got gutted like a fish, had an open wound where I could see my intestine, wore a bag for 3.5 months, dropped 40 lbs...etc....etc..etc...

After my last surgery to reverse my my bag and put my intestine back to where the good Lord originally had it... I was having nightmares nearly every night...Could not sleep...Kept thinking I still had my bag on and that it was going to rupture while out in public...Nightmares where I would look down and my body would begin opening up on its own etc.....

A buddy of mine stopped in the shop....He is a vet with three tours in Iraq, one in Afghanistan, and a an artificial leg courtesy of Uncle Sam...He noticed I was looking a little haggard and asked me if I was doing okay...I told him about my nightmares and waking up in a panic sometimes thinking my guts were spilling out on the floor...

"Yeah man...It will stop...You just got some PTSD.."

I said, "Buddy I doubt that..I was never in the service or anything..."

He just laughed and said, "You are such a dumb a$$ ...You don't get PTSD from being in the army...You get PTSD from almost dying and having your guts spilled out....The mind doesn't care how that happens...Just that it happens..."

By the mid-90s Police, Fire, and EMS personnel were being familiarized with "Critical Incident Stress" - as it was being called then - and procedures were being developed to help first responders cope with traumatic events either involving them or which they witnessed. We tend to laugh about "grief counseling" for students when one is killed in an accident or through some other misadventure, but emotional trauma is a reality. Some people are better equipped to cope with it than others, but there is no shame in recognizing that you have a problem and seeking help for it.

 

[OkieGirl]

You never know how the mind will deal with a situation. I was married to a Clinical Sociopath for 13 years; emotional trauma is a weird thing. I used to get so annoyed with myself because I couldn't shake some things. I thought PTSD was something that military folks, police, fire dealt with and never once tied it to the stuff I was going thru till a friend pointed it out. The flashbacks and dreams will eventually taper off. Give yourself some room when you have something crop up that you have to deal with. Your mind won't allow you to burry it forever, it will eventually work it's way to the top whether you want to deal or not. My family and I have a term now for when I need some space to deal with the ghosts. I don't jump as much as I used to, but there are things that surface from time to time...you find ways to work thru it. The sooner I realize that's what it's from the better off it is; just be patient with yourself and talk thru it if you can. The mind is trying to process things and emotional memories leave more of a 'stamp' on the brain and require processing. ~ OG

 

[singlesix]

Nobody knows how they will react in a situation, too many variables. All I can do is train to be as proficient with my guns as possible and I'll let the situation and fortune determine my reaction.

 

[Bennettjh]

That's some deep stuff.

Fortunately, I've never been in any situation like these posted.

 

[Alamo]

By the mid-90s Police, Fire, and EMS personnel were being familiarized with "Critical Incident Stress" - as it was being called then - and procedures were being developed to help first responders cope with traumatic events either involving them or which they witnessed...

If anyone chooses to look into Critical Incident Stress Management (CISM) and its variants --- look hard and do you research before you jump. I did for my department, because some others were using it and it was "popular." At the time I looked into it, it turned out CISM-type programs have no scientific evidence or research that they are effective in the long term, and there was some evidence that they actually make things worse in the long term. In fact, there emergency responder agencies in the US and abroad that specifically recommend against or ban the use of CISM-type programs. The positive support for CISM seems to come mostly from its practitioners and from anecdotal stories of people who recently went through a session and "felt better" in the short term, but there's not much presented about how well people are doing six months later, a year, etc. Those studies that did look farther down the road were not favorable to CISM.

That is not to say you should not seek help or treatment for PTSD or other symptoms, just that this particular "therapy" is probably not helpful, and may cause more harm. Look before you leap.

 

[Trigger Time]

Okay I just want to put this out there, in my life I have faced my own mortality 3x I have a guy at work tell me that he knows people in the same situation that have become introverted, depressed and so on. My dad on the other hand equates me to somebody with shellshock in the verbiage from the Vietnam era. I've seen threads on here where if there was an active shooter situation that people will or should only engage if they were directly confronted by the shooter and will more likely respond to getting their friends and our family out of harm's way and themselves and would not engage the shooter unless they were directly confronted. Where I on the other hand , having dealt with my own mortality will be more likely to put myself in between an unknown someone that is defenseless and the shooter knowing that I have already dealt with my own mortality and willing to take risk as in a bullet than do nothing. Am I an oddity, the norm or something out in left field?

people who won't defend others in need even if that means losing their life are *****s (filter will block that word but think kitty cat). Plain and simple. I'll say it to their face.
Talk talk talk to someone! That's the best advice I can give you. Your not a wimp for complaining or expressing emotion. It's good for the soul. Also try and replace those bad negative thoughts and memories with positive ones. Force yourself to do that. All the best

 

[Trigger Time]

That's funny you should say that zoub...

Back in January my intestine ruptured and I went septic....Nearly died...Got gutted like a fish, had an open wound where I could see my intestine, wore a bag for 3.5 months, dropped 40 lbs...etc....etc..etc...

After my last surgery to reverse my my bag and put my intestine back to where the good Lord originally had it... I was having nightmares nearly every night...Could not sleep...Kept thinking I still had my bag on and that it was going to rupture while out in public...Nightmares where I would look down and my body would begin opening up on its own etc.....

A buddy of mine stopped in the shop....He is a vet with three tours in Iraq, one in Afghanistan, and a an artificial leg courtesy of Uncle Sam...He noticed I was looking a little haggard and asked me if I was doing okay...I told him about my nightmares and waking up in a panic sometimes thinking my guts were spilling out on the floor...

"Yeah man...It will stop...You just got some PTSD.."

I said, "Buddy I doubt that..I was never in the service or anything..."

He just laughed and said, "You are such a dumb a$$ ...You don't get PTSD from being in the army...You get PTSD from almost dying and having your guts spilled out....The mind doesn't care how that happens...Just that it happens..."

yep that's some bad **** man that will **** with your mind (anyone's mind). Just find someone or more than 1 person you feel comfortable talking to and don't hold back. Your not alone and it will help!

 

[Trigger Time]

Nobody knows how they will react in a situation, too many variables. All I can do is train to be as proficient with my guns as possible and I'll let the situation and fortune determine my reaction.

Well you will either choose a cowards path or a noble one. I don't see any other reaction. The only "what if" I can see is if I will die trying or not.
My family is trained and armed also so they know what to do and can defend themselves. I'll try to help others by killing the mother ****er doing the killing

 

[actaeon277]

PTSD
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

I think having your guts open to the atmo counts as Traumatic.

All kinds of people get PTSD, besides military. Police, Firemen, crime victims, etc.
And not all PTSD is the same. In fact, most people get their ideas of PTSD from Hollywood. Which is about as accurate with it as they are with guns.
Not everyone with PTSD turns into a violent killing machine.
Some maybe, but not all.

PTSD symptoms are generally grouped into four types: intrusive memories, avoidance, negative changes in thinking and mood, or changes in emotional reactions.
[h=3]Intrusive memories[/h]Symptoms of intrusive memories may include:

• Recurrent, unwanted distressing memories of the traumatic event
• Reliving the traumatic event as if it were happening again (flashbacks)
• Upsetting dreams about the traumatic event
• Severe emotional distress or physical reactions to something that reminds you of the event

[h=3]Avoidance[/h]Symptoms of avoidance may include:

• Trying to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic event
• Avoiding places, activities or people that remind you of the traumatic event

[h=3]Negative changes in thinking and mood[/h]Symptoms of negative changes in thinking and mood may include:

• Negative feelings about yourself or other people
• Inability to experience positive emotions
• Feeling emotionally numb
• Lack of interest in activities you once enjoyed
• Hopelessness about the future
• Memory problems, including not remembering important aspects of the traumatic event
• Difficulty maintaining close relationships

[h=3]Changes in emotional reactions[/h]Symptoms of changes in emotional reactions (also called arousal symptoms) may include:

• Irritability, angry outbursts or aggressive behavior
• Always being on guard for danger
• Overwhelming guilt or shame
• Self-destructive behavior, such as drinking too much or driving too fast
• Trouble concentrating
• Trouble sleeping
• Being easily startled or frightened

Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) Symptoms - Mayo Clinic

 

[singlesix]

Well you will either choose a cowards path or a noble one. I don't see any other reaction. The only "what if" I can see is if I will die trying or not.
My family is trained and armed also so they know what to do and can defend themselves. I'll try to help others by killing the mother ****er doing the killing

So what is noble? Nice to live in a binary world.

 

[Thor]

I can't imagine not trying to stop an attack. Of course that does not mean I won't try to use every advantage to come out alive.

Shell shock is something that was common during WWI...lots of artillery fire and concussive waves. They have found with the recent experience with IEDs that they actually cause the brain to 'honeycomb' I guess is the best way to say it. After the shocks it may never be the same, it might get okay but not the same. Whereas PTSD is the psychological impact of the events. It's possible to have one, the other, or both.

 

[indiucky]

Intrusive memories

Symptoms of intrusive memories may include:

• Recurrent, unwanted distressing memories of the traumatic event
• Reliving the traumatic event as if it were happening again (flashbacks)
• Upsetting dreams about the traumatic event
• Severe emotional distress or physical reactions to something that reminds you of the event.

That was me from mid January until probably July...Strange as it may seem most of it stopped after my brother dunked me in the creek for my baptism after I accepted Christ....

I remember the wife and I were watching the finale of "The Following" and one of the main characters got stabbed in the gut...While he was in the hospital recovering his intestine ruptured and he went septic.. I went pale as a ghost, got shortness of breath and actually got physical pain where my gut opening was...It was so surreal to have a physical reaction to what is basically a glorified play on a small electronic box...While his surgeon was explaining what was happening to him it was like I saw my surgeon on the TV and he was talking with me...It's like every single memory of that day just hit me like a truck....All from a stupid TV show LOL.....

Thanks for posting this actaeon...Good information...It was a stressful six months and it's nice to see information like this to remind me what I was going through was normal and just part of the healing process.....

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I would like to think I would act in a way that was brave and noble in the face of mortal danger, but the truth is I've never been there and I can't really say.

I've had a gun pointed at me once during a robbery, but all I did was stand there. Not that there was anything else I could have done, but I still can't say I would or could have if there was. I've posted about that before, and I still remember the thought I had as the dude pointed his gun at me. I thought "dang, that's a little gun" (like a Jennings .22), but then I thought "that's probably the kind of gun people get shot with". But I also remember that I didn't feel like I was in danger of being killed that night, even though I found out later that the dude had previously killed a Tennessee State Trooper.

The one time I thought I really could die involved a swamp, a wading bird, and a big alligator, but that's another story.

 

[GIJEW]

For what we know about the mind, it might as well be the ocean. The deep parts are like a jigsaw puzzle with only a few pieces in place.

YMMV but most people find themselves coping with something on that symptom menu. If trauma, then: need to cope/process

Some stuff like hyper-vigilence eventually wears off--like Pavlov's dog gives up on waiting for the bell to ring

In a similar way dreams can generalize and move from, say, a battlefield you were on to a dark parking lot you might end up in. Kind of like same stuff, different day/place

Emotional distress probably needs talking with others since it's often about inaccurate perceptions of an event, and self blame afterwards (coulda, shoulda, woulda).

Of course, how one reacts varies on one's personality and their ability to deal with the situation at the time.

Heroism, as in "way above the call of duty" is a high standard to live up to all of the time. It's called heroism for a reason. As for 'either-or' choices, I'm not going to think of myself as a wimp for not using my fists to fight a couple lions that are eating somebody