Saw a "gun sense" booth today

[billt]

I got it from this......In the context of said rant, it certainly looks as though you meant to say your mother was directly saved by the Chrysler bailout. Perhaps you should learn to write better.

My mother loved Lee Iacocca, and bought Chrysler back in the day for under $4.00 a share when no one wanted it, because they were in much the same predicament GM was in.

Again, you got it WRONG. Nothing new there. I said she bought their stock. Nowhere did I ever say she worked for them. Again, you're not comprehending what you read. Even when it appears in plain English right under your nose. Now, are we finally done here?

 

[Fletch]

Again, you got it WRONG. Nothing new there. I said she bought their stock. Nowhere did I ever say she worked for them. Again, you're not comprehending what you read. Even when it appears in plain English right under your nose. Now, are we finally done here?

OK, I missed the reference. So your mother didn't keep her job, but she did keep the value of her stock. The details differ but the fact remains that you are a socialist when it benefits you and yours.

Hey, remember this?

Based on your statements in this thread, I find it pretty likely that you are far more socialist than I am.

Called it.

 

[billt]

So your mother didn't keep her job..........................

Now I know you're off the rails. How can she lose a job she never had? If someone looked up the definition of the word desperate, they would find a picture of you.

 

[OneBadV8]

 

[Fletch]

Now I know you're off the rails. How can she lose a job she never had?

The point that she had no job with Chrysler has already been conceded. Take what few wins you get.

If someone looked up the definition of the word desperate, they would find a picture of you.

Here are three definitions, with no pictures of me to be found:

Desperate - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Desperate | Define Desperate at Dictionary.com
desperate - definition of desperate by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Feel free to link the first dictionary site you find that has such a thing. You might really need the win at this point.

 

[jamil]

Sorry to interrupt the conversation with the original topic, but when the anti are there to lie, it seems pointless to try to win them. But certainly we need to at least confront them and expose this kind of stuff.

Busted! Mother Jones Caught Lying ? Airport Spitting Incident Was a Hoax ?UPDATED | Progressives Today

 

[JetGirl]

Sorry to interrupt the conversation with the original topic, but when the anti are there to lie, it seems pointless to try to win them. But certainly we need to at least confront them and expose this kind of stuff.

Busted! Mother Jones Caught Lying ? Airport Spitting Incident Was a Hoax ?UPDATED | Progressives Today

That's an individual who doesn't speak for everyone in a particular group, even if they'd like to think they do.
It's the antis who don't have good information you should try to reason with. Trust me... you can "win" some of them (to use your words). Just let the facts lead and present them in a non-confrontational in-your-face attitude, and you might be really surprised with the outcome.

 

[Fletch]

That's an individual who doesn't speak for everyone in a particular group, even if they'd like to think they do.
It's the antis who don't have good information you should try to reason with. Trust me... you can "win" some of them (to use your words). Just let the facts lead and present them in a non-confrontational in-your-face attitude, and you might be really surprised with the outcome.

A pastor friend of mine likes to use the mantra "make a friend, be a friend, bring a friend to Jesus". This also works for gun rights. And capitalism.

 

[billt]

Sorry to interrupt the conversation with the original topic, but when the anti are there to lie, it seems pointless to try to win them. But certainly we need to at least confront them and expose this kind of stuff.

Busted! Mother Jones Caught Lying ? Airport Spitting Incident Was a Hoax ?UPDATED | Progressives Today

I agree. But the problem is it is a non stop, 24 hour a day job. There is no end to it. And even when confronted, they just keep lying. A good example is Sarah Brady's continuous, never ending statistical lie, that, "75% of the American people want stricter gun control." I've heard her say that in countless articles I have read, and saw her say it on many TV talk shows. It was almost always followed by an automatic debunking by another guest that was pro gun. Usually someone representing the NRA or some state rifle and pistol association.

That fact is a 75% majority on anything would be all but unstoppable. With a honest 75% majority, you could put hookers and heroin dispensers in public schools. Who is going to stop you, the remaining 25%? If 75% of Americans really wanted more gun control, you would have it. It's much the same with this continuous nonsense the anti's drone out about how hunters and "sportsmen" don't "need" or want Assault weapons that are only good for, "spraying bullets in a wartime environment". Well if that's the case, who is standing in the mile long lines at these gun shows to buy them? Are they all there to get first crack at the salt water taffy vendors, and the velvet pictures of John Wayne?

We can combat these lies, but they just keep on coming, because they have nothing else to put out there. This is all but self correcting. If the tide was turning against us, you would see it. You don't because the tide is turning against them. The bottom line is their lies and bull$h!t have been a totally ineffective campaign. They're losing. About all that can turn that around is the permeation of liberalism in our public school system. That could and will become a genuine problem for gun owners in the upcoming years ahead.

 

[JetGirl]

About all that can turn that around is the permeation of liberalism in our public school system. That could and will become a genuine problem for gun owners in the upcoming years ahead.

One more reason to homeschool, or private school.

On a side note;

The bottom line is their lies and bull$h!t have been a totally ineffective campaign.

You may want to stop trying to bypass INGO's filter with characters instead of letters, as it can earn infractions.
However, using INGOs own smiley seems fine with the powers that be. So bull is acceptable as a replacement.

A pastor friend of mine likes to use the mantra "make a friend, be a friend, bring a friend to Jesus". This also works for gun rights. And capitalism.

Sounds legit.
Too legit to quit.
(I am so sorry I just did that)

 

[billt]

One more reason to homeschool, or private school.

The problem with that is many cannot be home to do one, and cannot afford the other.

 

[JetGirl]

The problem with that is many cannot be home to do one, and cannot afford the other.

I completely understand. That was our set of problems, as well. But if something is important enough to you, you find a way to do it.
There was a lot (a LOT) of sacrificing going on in order to make sure our kid never went to day care or public school (until she made the choice to switch to public for the marching band activities in high school). I quit a job I loved and Mr.Jet worked three jobs. It was a long time stretch of not going out to eat, or to the movies with friends or even getting a new pair of sneakers over $20 bucks.
But it was worth it for several reasons. Those here who remember the public school history student-teacher from Chicago will chuckle and nod. Maybe you're one of them. I don't recall.

 

[billt]

I completely understand. That was our set of problems, as well. But if something is important enough to you, you find a way to do it.
There was a lot (a LOT) of sacrificing going on in order to make sure our kid never went to day care or public school (until she made the choice to switch to public for the marching band activities in high school). I quit a job I loved and Mr.Jet worked three jobs. It was a long time stretch of not going out to eat, or to the movies with friends or even getting a new pair of sneakers over $20 bucks.
But it was worth it for several reasons. Those here who remember the public school history student-teacher from Chicago will chuckle and nod. Maybe you're one of them. I don't recall.

I can agree with what you did, and if I was in your position, I would have done the same. Especially if I was raising kids in and around Chicago. What always concerned me about home schooling, was that it has always lacked the interaction kids need to develop socially in a school environment. The scholastic competition, along with the physical development and competition that come from participating in the school based sports programs.

Not to mention the boy girl crushes and relationships that come from ones high school years. Those are all very important to social development of young people. I know they were to me. I just don't how you can make up that environment with home schooling? I guess it becomes a delicate balance of what you're keeping the kid from, to what you're presenting them with.

 

[JetGirl]

I can agree with what you did, and if I was in your position, I would have done the same. Especially if I was raising kids in and around Chicago. What always concerned me about home schooling, was that it has always lacked the interaction kids need to develop socially in a school environment. The scholastic competition, along with the physical development and competition that come from participating in the school based sports programs.

Not to mention the boy girl crushes and relationships that come from ones high school years. Those are all very important to social development of young people. I know they were to me. I just don't how you can make up that environment with home schooling? I guess it becomes a delicate balance of what you're keeping the kid from, to what you're presenting them with.

Homeschooling interaction is vastly different than your portrayal. It's a whole network... there are events and field trips and social interactions... you name it. As for the boyfriend/girlfriend thing... I feel it safe to say (with you admittedly in your 60s) that a LOT has changed in high school relationships between your day and *this* day. (Take that as purely perspective of an '11 grad.)

 

[jamil]

That's an individual who doesn't speak for everyone in a particular group, even if they'd like to think they do.
It's the antis who don't have good information you should try to reason with. Trust me... you can "win" some of them (to use your words). Just let the facts lead and present them in a non-confrontational in-your-face attitude, and you might be really surprised with the outcome.

Oh, I agree with working to "win" people over who are capable of intellectual honesty. But not people like my sister-in-law. I've given up trying because she's not at a place where she can concede that she's wrong about human nature.

Really, though, when you were anti-gun, were you manning booths and propagating lies, like those in the OP? People show indicators that clue us into whether the person might listen to opinions they oppose. You probably did. My sister-in-law no longer does. I think she's crossed over the threshold into intellectual dishonesty. It would unravel everything she believes about the world, to think that some people are just plain evil on their own. I'm afraid that something horrible would really have to rock her world in a life-changing way to snap her out of it.

I think we could break down the gun control proponents into two groups: 1) the honest but misinformed, and 2) the ideologically bent who do the misinforming. I think we should engage the first group, coworkers, relatives, neighbors, and like Fletch said, be their friends first, and demonstrate through our actions that their misgivings about "gun" people are wrong. But the second group is simply ideologically opposed to guns in the hands of citizens. I think the people they find to man these booths come from or are recruited by this group. All we can do is expose their lies and flawed arguments to the first group.

The problem with that is many cannot be home to do one, and cannot afford the other.

Homeschooling is a choice that requires making it a priority over the stuff that makes it impractical. I won't knock those who don't accept the consequences of making that the priority. But I must admit that I'll have considerable difficulty mustering sympathy for them when their kid gets kicked out of school for chewing a pop-tart into the shape of a gun.

 

[billt]

As for the boyfriend/girlfriend thing... I feel it safe to say (with you admittedly in your 60s) that a LOT has changed in high school relationships between your day and *this* day. (Take that as purely perspective of an '11 grad.)

Should I read that as to say they are "bad" today, as opposed to "back then"?

 

[jamil]

Homeschooling interaction is vastly different than your portrayal. It's a whole network... there are events and field trips and social interactions... you name it. As for the boyfriend/girlfriend thing... I feel it safe to say (with you admittedly in your 60s) that a LOT has changed in high school relationships between your day and *this* day. (Take that as purely perspective of an '11 grad.)

How so? Fundamentally so?

 

[JetGirl]

when you were anti-gun, were you manning booths and propagating lies, like those in the OP?

No, I didn't participate in anything publicly vocal. When confronted with "gun-related anything" that I was tasked to interact with, I usually just stated my staunch stance and recounted the ND event that sent a bullet inches from my brain. Most of the time, that ended any dialog about the pros/cons of guns... people would just get a wide-eyed "holy crap" look and nod. Or they'd say something like "That would do it..." and that would be the end of it.

 

[JetGirl]

How so?

Seems like back in the day (mid 80s for me) "relationships" or "going together" was basically actual dating events. Movies, rollerskating, mudding & tailgating at the river (ok, I'm a hick ranch kid), and a lot of that transpired in paired off "groups" of kids. Today, it seems, "dating" is kids plotting to get pregnant. Actual factual baby-making. Not even AS old as "high school age", like middle school! ...and speaking of; if you're doing it, you're promiscuous (and all the slang labels that go along with it) and if you're not, then you're a prude (and all the labels that go with that)... peer pressure is a powerful thing. That's just my 2¢.
And now...back to the anti-gun thread stuff...

 

[jamil]

Seems like back in the day (mid 80s for me) "relationships" or "going together" was basically actual dating events. Movies, rollerskating, mudding & tailgating at the river (ok, I'm a hick ranch kid), and a lot of that transpired in paired off "groups" of kids. Today, it seems, "dating" is kids plotting to get pregnant. Actual factual baby-making. Not even AS old as "high school age", like middle school! ...and speaking of; if you're doing it, you're promiscuous (and all the slang labels that go along with it) and if you're not, then you're a prude (and all the labels that go with that)... peer pressure is a powerful thing. That's just my 2¢.
And now...back to the anti-gun thread stuff...

They had peer pressure back in my day as well. But I have to admit we didn't have hand-held devices and there was never such a verb as "sexting". So I guess "relationships" are a bit different now.