Saiga/ar/rfb/fal

[Sonsofthunder]

Ok, I am looking at trying to make a buying decision here shortly. I've wanted an autoloader 308 for a while. Initially the price of them had me realizing I could get a bolt, and a marlin 45-70(still want one!) The potential impending direction of political involvement has me thinking about moving the semi-auto to the top of the list.
So even here, I am left without certainty. After hearing that some minor kinks were worked out of the new batch of kel-tec rfb's, I am really interested...if I could find one in stock...amd IF I could get one for around $1200. Advantages:
1. Fal mags - cheap and very easy to get
2. Lifetime warranty
3. Full 18" barrel but very short OAL
4. most of what I've seen is indicating 1moa performance - great for a gun easily up to the task of clearing rooms

Disadvantages:
1. All I'll be able to afford for a while

Saga advantages:
1. I think I saw a thread here today showing them for $499
2. You could drop it in cake batter and it will still fire

Disadvantages
1. All different types of accuracy feedback
2. Proprietary, and mostly lower capacity mags
3. Requires some conversion process/parts to get them back to "ak" arrangement, with trigger, grip, etc - have to factor that in to price

AR10 advantages
1. Inherently accurate for a semi-auto
2. Usually available with, or easy to set up with multiple rails for accessories
3. Typically easy on brass (not reloading yet, but bought a press and plan on it)
4. DI system is easy to strip, clean

Disadvantages
1. Mostly proprietary systems, unlike almost all ar15 models
2. Debatable, but the DI system usually will fail due to build up before the
other designs
3. My budget wouldn't allow something like a REPR, larue, etc
4. Same price as the rfb

FAL advantages:
1. Adjustable gas system
2. Proven design, reliability similar to ak
3. Mag price/availability

Disadvantages:
1. To guarantee getting a good one, you will pay a lot - ds arms for example
2. If you want to go with a more reasonable price, you really have to know what to look out for with head space issues, parts quality, and assembly
3. Hard on brass
4. Not exactly light or compact

Once again, I'm not quite swayed one way more than another yet, but I do like the idea that I could buy a saiga AND a solid bolt action or lever for the same price as the others...but again I would probably pay more for one gun if I knew I were getting that much better and more accurate of a gun. Thx for reading

 

[sgreen3]

Out of what you have listed, I would go with the AR10. Accuracy is just top notch.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

From the looks of your post... You ain't no dummy.

Hold off on buying until you know EXACTLY what it is that you want.

Shoot examples of each if it's offered...

You could consider building your own AR...spread the cost out over time.

And in talking with folks, you can often find non-DSA FAL rifles that run like scared deer.

Take it slow, you'll get to what you want eventually!

-J-

 

[Stainer]

Are you going to be doing anything with it other than punching paper? What distances will the paper you punch be at? I think these are things to consider. Obviously if you are going to shoot longer distances, a more accurate platform would be in order. If you are looking for just a cool piece, you could go with the less accurate and more fun shooter.

 

[sbcman]

I'm a Saiga guy all the way and would normally recommend them over anything else because I use mine to bake cakes, but if I had the cash your looking to put into a rifle I would go with an AR10. There are a few 308s out in the AR platform that can give you just about everything a bolt gun can and some of them take common mags.

 

[Zoub]

I saw a bunch of used Ar-10's last week all for cheap by comparison to original price. There are deals to be had to the guy who has cash.

I own a Saiga, it is what it is, a cheap beater unless you decide to make it into something more.

 

[windellmc]

The Saiga does have a chromelined barrel but the mag issue is my biggest hang up with them. A Vepr (nicer than a Saiga) would be another option but again you have the mag issue.

You should be able to get new DSA FALs for around $1k so it is probably the next cheapest option unless you want the $900 PTR-91 GI (HK clone). Mags are dirt cheap ($2-3 for surplus), but I hear the recoil can be worse than the others and unlike the AR and FAL changing barrels is a more difficult process.

 

[awilson82]

Why not consider the HK91 style rifles? PTR and Vector make nice ones and CETMEs are cheap and if you can find a good one shoot great.

 

[Kedric]

To the OP, please give some more details on your intended use and goals.

I am in a similar boat, weighing these as well as the M1A. Though I think I am "narrowing" it down to the FAL, RFB, RRA LAR-8, or an M1A variant. I am leaning away from the Saiga for some of the reasons already mentioned.

For my own considerations, I am not looking for a cheap plinker or beater, range queen, or a tabletop paper punch, but something that can consistently reach out to 500 yards, that hits hard enough to drop the target, that is reliable and accurate enough to fulfill a group's DM role, and can stand up to possibly prolonged field conditions and use. Long range and CQB are already well covered in the group.

Weight, accuracy, reliability, handiness, ease of use in the field, spare parts and magazine availability/costs, etc. are all prime concerns.

Subbing to this, will be interesting to see this discussion develop!

 

[billmyn]

my would be an ar10 platform , reason accuracy , platforms available ie flattop for optics, carry handle for battle sights , rail systems , and can go from a long range lite recoil paper puncher to a room clearing beast with the push of 2 pins simply swap uppers and go, you can even change calibers if you so desire just by changing uppers , cant do that with any other system .

 

[Sonsofthunder]

Are you going to be doing anything with it other than punching paper? What distances will the paper you punch be at? I think these are things to consider. Obviously if you are going to shoot longer distances, a more accurate platform would be in order. If you are looking for just a cool piece, you could go with the less accurate and more fun shooter.

I'm not planning on doing any particular form of competitive shooting, but would like the ability of reaching out and touching something at 500yds if necessary...though I haven't yet. That was my reasoning for comparing the cost of a more expensive semi(though still considered 'lower end') like an Ar, or rfb to the cost of a saiga. If I were to go that route, and end up with a less accurate semi, I'd likely be able to get a bolt for long distance needs.

 

[Sonsofthunder]

My intended use is an all around effective tool. I'm not looking to only shoot paper. I will be hunting coyotes with it, and a possible hog hunt - IF I get to go! I do enjoy shooting, just probably won't be doing exclusive range work. As stated earlier, if I went the cheap route with saiga, I'd probably end up affording a bolt soon. It seems like not a lot of you are into the rfb at all. I wasn't crazy about kel tec in the past either, but they seem to be doing some good things recently.
As far as the fal goes, a good one will put me near the price of the other more expensive options. I've heard many different things in terms of accuracy. Are they near as accurate as an ar? And I hear they are very rough on brass. Of course the expensive ones - dsa - are supposed to be free of most issues.
I also saw that one of you posted about switching calibers simply by switching uppers. I know that's very popular with the .223 variations, but I haven't seen .308 models in the price range I am looking at advertised with quick change multiple caliber options, like the ar15s are with .223 and .458 SOCOM....which btw is a pretty sweet cartridge and convenience

 

[jhusselman]

Ok, I am looking at trying to make a buying decision here shortly. I've wanted an autoloader 308 for a while. Initially the price of them had me realizing I could get a bolt, and a marlin 45-70(still want one!) The potential impending direction of political involvement has me thinking about moving the semi-auto to the top of the list.
So even here, I am left without certainty. After hearing that some minor kinks were worked out of the new batch of kel-tec rfb's, I am really interested...if I could find one in stock...amd IF I could get one for around $1200. Advantages:
1. Fal mags - cheap and very easy to get
2. Lifetime warranty
3. Full 18" barrel but very short OAL
4. most of what I've seen is indicating 1moa performance - great for a gun easily up to the task of clearing rooms

Disadvantages:
1. All I'll be able to afford for a while

Saga advantages:
1. I think I saw a thread here today showing them for $499
2. You could drop it in cake batter and it will still fire

Disadvantages
1. All different types of accuracy feedback
2. Proprietary, and mostly lower capacity mags
3. Requires some conversion process/parts to get them back to "ak" arrangement, with trigger, grip, etc - have to factor that in to price

AR10 advantages
1. Inherently accurate for a semi-auto
2. Usually available with, or easy to set up with multiple rails for accessories
3. Typically easy on brass (not reloading yet, but bought a press and plan on it)
4. DI system is easy to strip, clean

Disadvantages
1. Mostly proprietary systems, unlike almost all ar15 models
2. Debatable, but the DI system usually will fail due to build up before the
other designs
3. My budget wouldn't allow something like a REPR, larue, etc
4. Same price as the rfb

FAL advantages:
1. Adjustable gas system
2. Proven design, reliability similar to ak
3. Mag price/availability

Disadvantages:
1. To guarantee getting a good one, you will pay a lot - ds arms for example
2. If you want to go with a more reasonable price, you really have to know what to look out for with head space issues, parts quality, and assembly
3. Hard on brass
4. Not exactly light or compact

Once again, I'm not quite swayed one way more than another yet, but I do like the idea that I could buy a saiga AND a solid bolt action or lever for the same price as the others...but again I would probably pay more for one gun if I knew I were getting that much better and more accurate of a gun. Thx for reading

You might go to www.classicarms.com and take a look at the Russian Vepr Rifles they are very nice and you can get one now for $799.00 in .308. Very nice looking rifle in a great caliber for most things.

Good Luck

 

[Blackhawk2001]

You might go to www.classicarms.com and take a look at the Russian Vepr Rifles they are very nice and you can get one now for $799.00 in .308. Very nice looking rifle in a great caliber for most things.

Good Luck

There are also 20 round mags available and, after all, how many loaded magazines are you going to need at one time?

 

[Sonsofthunder]

I used to think access to extra mags wasn't a big deal. And to be realistic, when I get a bolt action, one or two is enough. But when it comes to a SHTF weapon, I would prefer to have several.

 

[smspears592]

I am in the market for an FAL too. Trying to learn about them before I jump. The prices are scary.

 

[mammynun]

I'd be dubious of the RFB's longevity....